It possibly is fast enough, but it doesn't have anywhere near enough IO to go on a task like that. 32bit buses are pretty significant.

Dear nVidia, please release a GT 710 retro edition on 32bit PCI with Vulkan drivers for Win9x so we can emulate other API on it.....

Tiido wrote on 2024-02-06, 21:17:

It possibly is fast enough, but it doesn't have anywhere near enough IO to go on a task like that. 32bit buses are pretty significant.

Perhaps an ESP32 then?

megatog615 wrote on 2024-02-06, 21:08:

Especially interested in a FPGA or Pico-emulated cpu that can drop into something like socket 1-3. (is the Pi Pico fast enough to emulate a 486?)

Nowhere near, particularly in this realm of pedantic cycle perfect emulation that we're stuck in. It would be a feat to get 99% accurate 4.77mhz 8088 out of it.

I'm waiting for the ultimate ISA sound card: SB Pro + EMU8000 + Gravis Ultrasound + Adlib Gold + PAS + Tandy sound + MPU-401 w/ intelligent mode .

Maybe one of the future Orpheus cards? 😁

megatog615 wrote on 2024-02-06, 21:27:

Perhaps an ESP32 then?

Those have even less IO pins to use 🤣

But in the end some PLD is necessary, because those 33/40/50MHz bus cycles with nearly 100 signals have to be handled exactly to the clock cycles or nothing works.
Other issue is 3.3V, and level translation at these kind of speeds begins to get iffy... I am not aware of any 486 board that is not driving its IOs to CPU at 5V. All the existing CPUs have 5V tolerant IOs, which the devices one can use to make a new one, do not have (or at least I am not aware of anything with enough IOs that isn't obsolete). With socket7 it is a lot easier, IO is at 3.3V or at least within maximum voltage limits of most PLDs one can buy nowdays.

dr_st wrote on 2024-02-04, 08:41:

A Thinkpad 25 motherboard with the (soldered) 7th gen dual core CPU replaced with a 8th gen quad core! 😁

Totally possible (sort of).
It's possible to mod the T25 palmrest and keyboard into a T480, so basically the same thing 😀

Well, in any case, would a 486 motherboard be more in the realm of DIY possibility?

megatog615 wrote on 2024-02-06, 23:17:

Well, in any case, would a 486 motherboard be more in the realm of DIY possibility?

386 has been done 486 isn’t that much more complicated

I'm assuming most of a 486 board's logic could all be condensed into a single chip these days, just don't know what chip that would be. DM&P seems to have figured this out already. I know you can buy 168-pin sockets but I can't find Socket 3 anywhere. You can also find SIMM sockets easily(I bought some from the same supplier once). I have a feeling no one wants to mess with 32- and 28-pin cache DIP chips anymore so some 512KB cache chip soldered to the board would probably be fine for most people here. What would be difficult to find?

BitWrangler wrote on 2024-02-06, 21:27:

megatog615 wrote on 2024-02-06, 21:08:

Especially interested in a FPGA or Pico-emulated cpu that can drop into something like socket 1-3. (is the Pi Pico fast enough to emulate a 486?)

Nowhere near, particularly in this realm of pedantic cycle perfect emulation that we're stuck in. It would be a feat to get 99% accurate 4.77mhz 8088 out of it.

https://microcorelabs.wordpress.com/2022/01/2 … tor-for-ibm-pc/
https://microcorelabs.wordpress.com/2022/01/3 … elerator-mcl86/
https://microcorelabs.wordpress.com/2022/02/0 … few-benchmarks/
https://microcorelabs.wordpress.com/2022/02/0 … and-challenges/
8088 MPH Demo running on MCL86+ - MicroCore Labs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAgtQljp0Tc

That's about what I thought it would need for cycle accurate 4.77 a 600Mhz cortex m7 overclocked to 800. So yah, Pi Pico with an M0 at up to 133Mhz ain't close. Not without writing it in assembly from scratch.

the3dfxdude wrote on 2024-02-06, 15:43:

leileilol wrote on 2024-02-04, 03:33:

Automatic on-demand Plus! desktop theme parsing/adapting/loading for <insert Linux DE here>

Is this automatic enough?
https://github.com/grassmunk/Chicago95/blob/m … /Plus/README.MD

ah. i assumed that died from GTK regressions in new XFCE

Another one from me: 440BX or LX based Socket 8 mobo. Bring AGP to the Pentium Pro.

And I don't mean a slotket, but a whole BX or LX equipped mobo with socket 8 instead of Slot 1.

Some other VGA cards that may be possible to make (ICs available):

Tseng ET6000 (ICs: ET6000, MoSys MD909 MDRAM) - Can't find datasheet, BIOS.

ATI 3D Rage Pro, XL (Mach64GT/M) (ICs: 215R3BUA22/215R3LASB41) XL is newer, faster, LCD/DVI support, low components, PCI 2.2, Supports 5v/3.3v) - Datasheet available, unknown BIOS situation.

Voodoo 4-5 (IC: 3DFX 355-0026-220) - Can't find datasheet, BIOS.

PcBytes wrote on 2024-02-07, 03:27:

Another one from me: 440BX or LX based Socket 8 mobo. Bring AGP to the Pentium Pro.

And I don't mean a slotket, but a whole BX or LX equipped mobo with socket 8 instead of Slot 1.

Well you have "slotkets" to put a Pentium Pro in a Slot 1. This pretty much achieves what you want?
Maybe "just" recreating that would be nice as they are very rare.

https://www.cpushack.com/2020/09/09/finding-t … f-the-socket-8/

PCI express on a 386 (don't care how many bridges or detours through Terrabithia it takes 😉 ).

3lectr1c wrote on 2024-02-06, 22:46:

dr_st wrote on 2024-02-04, 08:41:

A Thinkpad 25 motherboard with the (soldered) 7th gen dual core CPU replaced with a 8th gen quad core! 😁

Totally possible (sort of).
It's possible to mod the T25 palmrest and keyboard into a T480, so basically the same thing 😀

I know of the second mod. 😀 I'm specifically interested in the first one. 😉

Serialise ISA... like a PCIe version of ISA.... but actually make it a bus, like I2C or RS485... that is completely transparent to a retro system, you have a single riser slot motherboard, you plug the adapter in and have 4 slot or 8 slot backplane, OR individual slots that connect to an octopus like USB hub kind of thing, use USB cable and sockets maybe. Maybe steal half of the USB signalling protocol to get chips to abuse. Anyhoo, you could then have a pack of cards size 286/386/486/pent motherboard that connected to ISA like this and you'd be able to build systems into any shape case. You could probably also fiddle with an ISA card on your workbench plugged into a system 10ft away, but IDK how much of a selling point that would be.

Okay, so everything later would probably need drivers to use the adapter over a PCI or PCIe... or whatever is in the future bus, or USB 2.1 up, or firewire.... whatever the heck bus you want to build adapters for, and also you can build shields for Pi type boards doing emulation and have an ISA bus that you can plug in.

Anyway, list of things it would do would be; ISA extender and risers for vintage and retro systems add several slots, while being very flexible in layout, Add ISA to PC systems without it now and years down the line, Add ISA to emulation systems, Add ISA to non x86 project boards to use cards in new ways.

Yes there are highly individual and pricey solutions for all of these use cases, they have no commonality and you are on your own for software. Looking at a more universal solution that could be open and commoditised, and become cheap like PCIe risers for GPU mining. ISA 3000, get the sucker on life support for the next millennium 🤣

Edit: So there's another end to the cable... as long as we standardise on the connector, we can do ISA peripherals with no edge connectors at all, new ISA cards becoming "chewing gum stick" boards or another card pack sized unit. Maybe have a conventional "loadout" of cards combined on single card, VGA, sound, SD storage and PS/2 port... ready to plug to adapter on original board, or to a new x86 mini board, or to modern or emu.. (Plus also if you had a card set on an 8 slot backplane it would be cake to switch one wire and be running it on 286 or pentium or whatever)

BitWrangler wrote on 2024-02-07, 16:05:

Serialise ISA... like a PCIe version of ISA.... but actually make it a bus, like I2C or RS485... that is completely transparent to a retro system, you have a single riser slot motherboard, you plug the adapter in and have 4 slot or 8 slot backplane, OR individual slots that connect to an octopus like USB hub kind of thing, use USB cable and sockets maybe.

You are describing LPC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Pin_Count 😀 Transparent LPC bridging is totally possible, and rp2040 is fast enough to do it. Here rp2040 implementing LPC sniffer https://github.com/stacksmashing/pico-tpmsniffer
In theory we could design $10 ISA card (like PicoGus) that plugs into ISA and generates LPC - plug 9 conductor cable - another ISA card plugged into ISA riser.
also dISAppointment - LPC to ISA adapter - ISA on modern motherboards

rasz_pl wrote on 2024-02-06, 11:00:

MikeSG wrote on 2024-02-06, 08:32:

I've been looking at a "387 to VLB" interface for the last two weeks and think it's possible... needs only BE3, A16-23 from the CPU. OR-gate for RDYRET/READY. Three 34pin ribbon cables. VLB socket. ISA riser..

Few people were looking into building universal VLB for 386

some more stuff:
386 with VLB, suggestions?
The dream of you all guys! a VLB 386! Say your opinion!!
there are also Alaris Cougar and Alaris Cougar II 386SX VLB motherboards.