bten wrote on 2024-02-13, 16:44:

All I'm asking:
What GPU and Soundcard combo can I get for a good price that would give me great compatibility for both DOS and Win98 games?

Assuming you have AGP:
Geforce 2 MX400 or Geforce 4 MX440 or Geforce MX460
These are affordable, accessible and compatible.

ISA, for DOS:
ESS AudioDrive ES1868F or 1869F or Sound Blaster Vibra16
These are generally accessible and affordable. People sometimes complain they are not real OPL (some Vibra16 are), but close enough.

PCI for Windows 98:
Creative Sound Blaster Live! SB0060 or SB0100 or SB0220
Generally affordable, common and support EAX2

For both W98 and DOS:
ISA: Creative Sound Blaster AWE64 Value
PCI: ESS Solo-1
Not as affordable as they used to be, but still not too expensive. There are some compromises on both the W98 and DOS fronts, but you cover both with a single card so you can come out cheaper than having both a dedicated DOS and Windows sound card.

bten wrote on 2024-02-13, 16:44:

What storage should I use?

For convenience, SATA SSD with an IDE adapter. You don't need more than 64GB at this performance level. Don't go above 128GB.

bten wrote on 2024-02-13, 16:44:

Do I need to replace the PSU? (it seems fine)?

It's recommended. Your PC don't seem to be heavy on the 5V rail so I'd expect any decent quality PSU with more than 15A on their 5V rail can handle it. You could look for 18A just to be safe.

If you are on a budget i would go with a cmedia card like the Terratech Aureon 5.1 Fun. It can run dos games in dma mode without being ISA or have an an link. They are also very inexpensive.

RandomStranger wrote on 2024-02-13, 17:13:

For convenience, SATA SSD with an IDE adapter. You don't need more than 64GB at this performance level. Don't go above 128GB.

I see some people recommend compact flash, what's the advantage of CF over a SATA SSD?

RandomStranger wrote on 2024-02-13, 17:13:

It's recommended. Your PC don't seem to be heavy on the 5V rail so I'd expect any decent quality PSU with more than 15A on their 5V rail can handle it. You could look for 18A just to be safe.

Are there any new PSUs for sale that have enough Molex connectors and floppy? Or do people generally buy used PSUs for these?

Also: thanks for the great info, this was super informative.

bten wrote on 2024-02-13, 17:36:

I see some people recommend compact flash, what's the advantage of CF over a SATA SSD?

CompactFlash is convenient if you want a swappable drive or to be able to plug into a modern PC for file transfers. They're usually best with DOS.

For Windows 98, you'll want an SSD for the increased storage capacity and/or performance.

bten wrote on 2024-02-13, 17:36:

I see some people recommend compact flash, what's the advantage of CF over a SATA SSD?

32-64GB SSD can be had for $10-15, CF has no advantages.

bten wrote on 2024-02-13, 17:36:

RandomStranger wrote on 2024-02-13, 17:13:

For convenience, SATA SSD with an IDE adapter. You don't need more than 64GB at this performance level. Don't go above 128GB.

I see some people recommend compact flash, what's the advantage of CF over a SATA SSD?

Lifetime and price. CF cards got expensive and W98 wears them out much quicker.

bten wrote on 2024-02-13, 17:36:

RandomStranger wrote on 2024-02-13, 17:13:

It's recommended. Your PC don't seem to be heavy on the 5V rail so I'd expect any decent quality PSU with more than 15A on their 5V rail can handle it. You could look for 18A just to be safe.

Are there any new PSUs for sale that have enough Molex connectors and floppy? Or do people generally buy used PSUs for these?

Also: thanks for the great info, this was super informative.

The EVGA 500 W1 has 1 floppy connector and 3 molex and 20A on 5V. That should be enough. You can also get SATA>Molex adapters.
https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=100-W1-0500-KR

bten wrote on 2024-02-13, 16:44:

Do I need to replace the PSU? (it seems fine)?

you can continue using it keeping in mind it will need capacitor service, or just replace all electrolytic now (except for the two big ones, those will be fine)

RandomStranger wrote on 2024-02-13, 17:13:

Assuming you have AGP: Geforce 2 MX400 or Geforce 4 MX440 or Geforce MX460 These are affordable, accessible and compatible. […]
Show full quote

bten wrote on 2024-02-13, 16:44:

All I'm asking:
What GPU and Soundcard combo can I get for a good price that would give me great compatibility for both DOS and Win98 games?

Assuming you have AGP:
Geforce 2 MX400 or Geforce 4 MX440 or Geforce MX460
These are affordable, accessible and compatible.

ISA, for DOS:
ESS AudioDrive ES1868F or 1869F or Sound Blaster Vibra16
These are generally accessible and affordable. People sometimes complain they are not real OPL (some Vibra16 are), but close enough.

PCI for Windows 98:
Creative Sound Blaster Live! SB0060 or SB0100 or SB0220
Generally affordable, common and support EAX2

For both W98 and DOS:
ISA: Creative Sound Blaster AWE64 Value
PCI: ESS Solo-1
Not as affordable as they used to be, but still not too expensive. There are some compromises on both the W98 and DOS fronts, but you cover both with a single card so you can come out cheaper than having both a dedicated DOS and Windows sound card.

bten wrote on 2024-02-13, 16:44:

What storage should I use?

For convenience, SATA SSD with an IDE adapter. You don't need more than 64GB at this performance level. Don't go above 128GB.

bten wrote on 2024-02-13, 16:44:

Do I need to replace the PSU? (it seems fine)?

It's recommended. Your PC don't seem to be heavy on the 5V rail so I'd expect any decent quality PSU with more than 15A on their 5V rail can handle it. You could look for 18A just to be safe.

I 100% second that.

bten wrote on 2024-02-13, 17:36:

I see some people recommend compact flash, what's the advantage of CF over a SATA SSD?

Compact Flash natively uses Parallel ATA, so it appears to be a standard hard disk to most computers. It is much more likely to work on very old systems where a SSD or SD card will not.

jf_80_ wrote on 2024-02-13, 20:28:

bten wrote on 2024-02-13, 17:36:

I see some people recommend compact flash, what's the advantage of CF over a SATA SSD?

Compact Flash natively uses Parallel ATA, so it appears to be a standard hard disk to most computers. It is much more likely to work on very old systems where a SSD or SD card will not.

But isn't CF going to be a bit on the slow side for a PIII 440BX?

bten wrote on 2024-02-13, 16:44:

Hi, first post here. […]
Show full quote

Hi, first post here.

Recently found an Apple Studio Display 17" CRT (VGA) and a PC - Pentium 3 (450mhz), SE440BX2 motherboard, 128mb system memory.

I'm looking to get this thing setup for an affordable price with a soundcard, HDD, and GPU off eBay to start using, but as I was looking I found there are major differences with compatibility for DOS and Win98 through using AGP, PCI, and ISA for the soundcard and GPU.

All I'm asking:
What GPU and Soundcard combo can I get for a good price that would give me great compatibility for both DOS and Win98 games?
What storage should I use?
Do I need to replace the PSU? (it seems fine)?

Thanks

First up: the SE440BX2 frequently came with Yamaha YMF740C audio chip onboard. If so you already have an excellent option for Windows and DOS. Does yours have it?

dionb wrote on 2024-02-13, 23:42:

First up: the SE440BX2 frequently came with Yamaha YMF740C audio chip onboard. If so you already have an excellent option for Windows and DOS. Does yours have it?

I will have to look when I'm at home over the weekend...
I don't have a PS/2 M+K yet either 🤣, so if I can tell by looking at the board I'll reply again on Friday or Saturday.

bten wrote on 2024-02-14, 16:52:

dionb wrote on 2024-02-13, 23:42:

First up: the SE440BX2 frequently came with Yamaha YMF740C audio chip onboard. If so you already have an excellent option for Windows and DOS. Does yours have it?

I will have to look when I'm at home over the weekend...
I don't have a PS/2 M+K yet either 🤣, so if I can tell by looking at the board I'll reply again on Friday or Saturday.

Look at the ATX back panel - does it have 3x 3.5mm jack connectors and a DA15 joystick/MIDI port? If not, then definitely nope.

If it does, look for a square chip with "Yahama" inscription in front of the PCI slots. That's the one...

dionb wrote on 2024-02-14, 22:25:

Look at the ATX back panel - does it have 3x 3.5mm jack connectors and a DA15 joystick/MIDI port? If not, then definitely nope.
If it does, look for a square chip with "Yahama" inscription in front of the PCI slots. That's the one...

Cool thanks, will update here once I get a look at it.
I appreciate all the helpful info, this community seems great.

dionb wrote on 2024-02-14, 22:25:

Look at the ATX back panel - does it have 3x 3.5mm jack connectors and a DA15 joystick/MIDI port? If not, then definitely nope.

If it does, look for a square chip with "Yahama" inscription in front of the PCI slots. That's the one...

There is a Yamaha chip (YMF740C-V)
Is that the one? And in that case should I just get an ISA card for DOS then?

bten wrote on 2024-02-17, 00:36:

dionb wrote on 2024-02-14, 22:25:

Look at the ATX back panel - does it have 3x 3.5mm jack connectors and a DA15 joystick/MIDI port? If not, then definitely nope.

If it does, look for a square chip with "Yahama" inscription in front of the PCI slots. That's the one...

There is a Yamaha chip (YMF740C-V)
Is that the one? And in that case should I just get an ISA card for DOS then?

That's the one!

I'm not totally sure, but I suspect the YMF740 on this board is hooked up via SBLink, so behaves like ISA even though it is PCI.

In that case you may not need a separate ISA card, as the YMF740 already gives you SBPro2 support, real OPL3 (it's Yamaha after all) and bug-free MPU-401 MIDI.

dionb wrote on 2024-02-17, 01:46:

I'm not totally sure, but I suspect the YMF740 on this board is hooked up via SBLink, so behaves like ISA even though it is PCI.

In that case you may not need a separate ISA card, as the YMF740 already gives you SBPro2 support, real OPL3 (it's Yamaha after all) and bug-free MPU-401 MIDI.

Cool, so this onboard audio is gonna be just as good as a pci / isa card?
That would save some $$$ for the build.

bten wrote on 2024-02-18, 01:22:

[...]

Cool, so this onboard audio is gonna be just as good as a pci / isa card?
That would save some $$$ for the build.

For Windows: definitely. Only thing you are missing is positional audio, and games that use that wouldn't run well on a P3-450 anyway.
For DOS: quite possibly. In any case give it a try, if it ends up disappointing you can always add an ISA card later.