VOGONS


First post, by Imito

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i want to know what is everyone using to build a retro pc. Hard drives tend to fail over time, low capacity ones are hard to find too.

Some of the most popular things available are:

1. Old ide HDD( or newer one formated with seagate tools?)

2. Sata HDD with a sata to IDE adapter

3. SD to ide adapter ( very well known on ebay)

4. CF to ide adapter

i would like to know your experiences and problems. i used a cf to ide adapter with a 4GB cf card but noticed some file corruption once, maybe it was the card but it was a sandisk one.

Reply 1 of 9, by crusher

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I'm running these 2 variants:

- CF to IDE adapter (StarTech) in my DOS-System
Built that earlier before when I thought I can not have more than 8GB drive space (4x 2GB partitions) because of FAT16 limitation.
The big advantage is that you can easily take out the card and transfer data to it on a modern PC.
Nowadays I'm using DOS 7.10 with FAT32 and USB-support. Actually I'm using a 32GB CF card. But I plan to go to the limit and use a 128GB later on. For better file transfer I'm using an USB2.0 PCI card along with FAT32 formatted USB-Sticks. This way I even do not have to take out the CF-card.
If today I would built another DOS system I would tend to my second variant:

- internal SSD (128GB/137GB) via SATA to IDE adapter (StarTech) in my Windows 98 system
128GB CF cards are very expensive and because I knew I can use USB2.0 for file transfers (thanks to NUSB) I did not want to use the CF card variant.
I bought an 256GB Samsung EVO 860 SSD for a cheap price.
I used Phils instructions and prepared the drive with SeaTools before installing Windows 98

https://www.philscomputerlab.com/windows-98-m … e-capacity.html

Because Windows 98 does not support Trim I'm using R. Loew's "TRIM.EXE" for DOS and execute it via autoexec.bat on every startup of the system.

I've never had any problems with either CF oder SSD variant.
But if anything should happen and corrupt data I have a recent backup done with Norton Ghost so I can easily restore the last working state.

Reply 2 of 9, by douglar

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People do lots of different things. Sometimes it depends on what your system is.

1a. Old ide HDD
Pros: Fun & nostalgic if you got them & tend to have the best compatibility if you have something that's from the same time period of your computer/controller.
Cons: Expensive & hard to get if you don't have them and the remaining life span may be short

1b. Newer Pata HDD
Pros: Easier to find, faster performance, and probably has more life left in it but ..
Cons: Isn't period correct, there is a well documented gauntlet of BIOS incompatibilities to navigate when you put new drives in old systems.
https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/Storage# … age_Limitations

2. Sata HDD with a sata to IDE adapter
Pros: Fast and available and makes some HDD noise
Cons: The are devices large and don't speak CHS at all, which can make for even more incompatibilities for computers older than 1996.

3. SD to ide adapter ( Sinitechi device )
Pros: Fast and available and compatible with CHS addressing. Predictable performance and compatibility since 99.9% of the devices use the same IDE firmware. Portable.
Cons: No nostalgia. Performance limited to ~ATA-66 internally, regardless of your computer or SD.

4. CF to ide adapter
Pros: Available, inexpensive, portable. Usually fast enough for almost all <=486 uses.
Cons: Many families of CFs were created over many years for many purposes, so CF experiences can vary greatly.

5. 40 pin DOM
Pros: Works like the best CF devices. Makes for clean looking builds that don't come apart during shipping.
Cons: Needs hardware mod or special cable to go faster than UDMA2.

edit Fixed typoes
edit Added portable to SD Adapter, added 40 pin DOM

Last edited by douglar on 2024-04-02, 17:13. Edited 4 times in total.

Reply 3 of 9, by Shponglefan

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For systems that primarily use DOS, I use CompactFlash cards + adapters.

For systems that primarily use Windows (e.g. Win 9x, XP), I use SSD drives.

Haven't had any issues on any of my daily use / stable builds.

The only times I have issued with file corruption has been when experimenting with hardware and dealing with crashes or lock-ups. But that could result in file issues regardless of the storage media used.

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 4 of 9, by midicollector

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I just posted this in another thread but I like sd cards (technically micro sd) because they’re really easy to swap out. Plus all my other vintage electronics (Mac, Apple 2, etc) also use Micro sd. I’ve never encountered any problems with them but I’m not like pushing them to their limits or anything. I do have a computer with a magnetic ide drive, and the sd cards are a bit faster in my experience but I haven’t really done in depth comparison this is just anecdotally.

Reply 5 of 9, by megatron-uk

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As above, for DOS use I stick to CF cards in everything from 286 through to P1 class machines. Disk throughput is almost never an issue on DOS systems, so CF cards are perfect - no noise, no heat, low power draw. I almost exclusively use Startech.com 3.5" bay-mounted readers, so they are easy to remove for mass data transfer or backup.

My collection database and technical wiki:
https://www.target-earth.net

Reply 6 of 9, by chinny22

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As you mention a 4GB CF I'll assume we are talking about 486/early Pentium era dos PC.

I have 3 similar era PC's.
All PC's boot off IDE spinning rust. as it's only the OS on the drive low capacity doesn't really matter.
486 #1 is limited to 500MB so second hard drive is a 4GB CF card using drive overlay which works well.
486#2 corrupted its CF card so 2nd hard drive so just added a 6GB IDE spinning rust. -Cheat fix
PPro uses a CF card no problems 😀

I'd also use SD but as I started with CF may as well stick with the 1 format

Reply 7 of 9, by StriderTR

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Personally, I use IDE to SD adapters for my DOS and early Windows needs. For me, their convenience outweighs the speed limitations. Also, very cheap and easy to clone as needed.

If I want speed, like for later Windows, I use SATA to IDE and just use a modern SSD.

My early/later Windows depends on the needs of the system. Windows 95 I will use either solution. Windows 98 and later I just use SATA to IDE and an SSD. Both of my current "retro" builds use an IDE to SD. One is DOS/Win3.1 based, and the other is Windows 95, but due to space limitations in the 95 build, I went with the IDE to SD.

Retro Blog: https://theclassicgeek.blogspot.com/
Archive: https://archive.org/details/@theclassicgeek/
3D Things: https://www.thingiverse.com/classicgeek/collections

Reply 8 of 9, by exobot

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In my pure DOS (486) and Win9x (Slot1, PII or PIII as needed) builds I still run only the best spinning rust, of 4GB and 80GB varieties. I guess I'm a bit of a masochist, but I do enjoy using totally period correct hardware while I still can. The 4GB one also genuinely sounds great, I love hearing it clack away as things get loaded.

Unfortunately I'm well aware it's days are numbered, so I do have an SD to IDE adaper as a backup. I'd probably use it in the 486 as a secondary drive, but I've had zero luck getting it to work on the same controller with the HDD, although it's just fine with a CD drive. Also, once I managed to set it up with two partitions, only to find out that writing in one would randomly overwrite parts of the other. That last one is most likely because of my 486 is a HP Vectra with a weird BIOS. Should probably look into CF/DOM as an option.

A bit off topic, but for XP I just use an SSD connected to the SATA controller on my motherboard (GA-990XA-UD3) in IDE mode. As far as I can tell, it works perfectly. In the case of that system, I was just using a bunch of (just about) XP compatible hardware from a retired gaming PC, so period correctness was never much of a consideration.

Reply 9 of 9, by Ensign Nemo

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I'm not a purist, so I just go with flash memory. It's cheap and I love the convenience of being able to access my files on a modern computer. You can even buy CF card readers that fit into a 3.5 " drive bay, so you can swap cards without even opening your case.