VOGONS


First post, by arncht

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Hi,

I have a period correct Thunderbird 1400 build from 2001, but i am trouble with the cooling and psu. I have very nice enermax from 2002 and a late 2002 falconrock, which could be the right answer, but it should be nice some period correct solution.

The psu maybe would be easier, to find a 25-30a@5v ~300w model, but even after checking a lot of 2001 cooler reviews, the relatively silent solution is tough. Maybe a bigger heatsink with with some modern but old looking fan could work, but i need some tips for the heatsink. The target is a pre xp age.

Last edited by arncht on 2024-04-06, 18:01. Edited 2 times in total.

My little retro computer world
Overdoze of the demoscene

Reply 1 of 14, by paradigital

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My favourite heatsink for the Athlon (Socket A) is the Alpha PAL-8045, it does however need good clearance around the socket and the mounting holes present on the board.

Fortunately I still have mine from the period, as they are seemingly hard to find.

Alternatively (though nowhere near as good at cooling) were the ubiquitous Golden Orb, Super Orb etc coolers.

Reply 2 of 14, by Shadzilla

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I used an Enermax PSU with mine back in the day so you're on the right track there, although I don't see them for sale very often now. There are several FSP power supplies that have strong 5v rails as you mention, 300-350W.

For my T'Bird 1400 system I'm using a Cooler Master SP5-6G31C which is available new from here - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154423255346 (that's where I got mine from). Fairly quiet and perfectly adequate for my needs, although I'm running my chip at 1200MHz. For my Athlon XP 3000+ system I'm using a Cooler Master X Dream which has a fan controller and an easily swappable fan, so that might be another one to look out for.

Reply 3 of 14, by janskjaer

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According to my purchase receipt in July 2001 from my local system builder, mine may have been a Thermaltake Titan Majesty Twin TTC-MT1AB-2, which was paired with my Thunderbird 1400.

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DELL Dimension XPS M200s
:Intel P1 MMX 200MHz
:64MB EDO
:DOS 6.22/Win95b
:Matrox Millenium II + m3D (PowerVR PCX2)
Chaintech 7VJL Apogee
:AMD AthlonXP 2700+
:512MB DDR
:Win98SE/2000 SP4
:3dfx Voodoo5 5500 AGP

Reply 5 of 14, by arncht

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Thank you for the tips, the thermalright sk6 also would be a nice one, but impossible to find
https://www.frostytech.com/articles/727/6.html

My little retro computer world
Overdoze of the demoscene

Reply 6 of 14, by dionb

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Here's a review of 46 heatsinks/coolers from May 21st 2001, two weeks before the release of the Athlon 1400

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/Can-t-To … oolers,324.html

Take your pick of what you can find. Page 31 shows noise levels. I'm a big Zalman CNPS fan, particularly when upgraded with 120mm case fan - but the latter is hardly period correct.

Reply 7 of 14, by BitWrangler

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It's cute that PC enthusiasts think that fans of various sizes didn't exist before the retail PC market demanded them, but yeah 120mm were around, holes in the case big enough for them didn't. I cut a blowhole for a 150mm sometime before 2003.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 8 of 14, by arncht

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Here is a list from this age: https://content.hwigroup.net/images/old/news/ … keta6112001.pdf

My little retro computer world
Overdoze of the demoscene

Reply 9 of 14, by arncht

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BitWrangler wrote on 2024-04-06, 18:54:

It's cute that PC enthusiasts think that fans of various sizes didn't exist before the retail PC market demanded them, but yeah 120mm were around, holes in the case big enough for them didn't. I cut a blowhole for a 150mm sometime before 2003.

Here is a heatsink is the question mostly, but the 60mm was the “big” cpu fan in this pre xp period, the 80mm capable heatsinks were quite rare.

I designed and built an own water cooling system at those time (2002-2004). It was the block, it was modular 😀

3406_nvcxhabjyzpkaanc_felul.png

3406_x2uclok7r2a0cidx_img_3835.jpg

My little retro computer world
Overdoze of the demoscene

Reply 10 of 14, by dionb

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BitWrangler wrote on 2024-04-06, 18:54:

It's cute that PC enthusiasts think that fans of various sizes didn't exist before the retail PC market demanded them, but yeah 120mm were around, holes in the case big enough for them didn't. I cut a blowhole for a 150mm sometime before 2003.

I can guarantee you the Noctua Redux fans I use with my Zalman CNPS were not available in 2001. The CNPS were shipped with Zalman 80mm fans (later P4 CNPS were shipped with 90mm fans). Of course larger fans were available. but they were not paired with CPU heatsinks.

Reply 11 of 14, by douglar

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I remember that trying to cool the 1400 was a challenge. I knew many people that damaged the cpu trying to remove or install a cooler. I had one friend who powered up his system with out a cooler, roasted the chip before you could say “warranty voided”, and then touched it, burning the mirror image of the die into his thumb.

Anyway, I had a Swiftech MC462 at that time. The less I fussed with it, the happier I was, becuase I felt like there was too high a chance of damaging the die every time I messed with it.

Athlon Coolers reviewed March 2001:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/730

Reply 12 of 14, by arncht

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douglar wrote on 2024-04-07, 03:08:
I remember that trying to cool the 1400 was a challenge. I knew many people that damaged the cpu trying to remove or install a […]
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I remember that trying to cool the 1400 was a challenge. I knew many people that damaged the cpu trying to remove or install a cooler. I had one friend who powered up his system with out a cooler, roasted the chip before you could say “warranty voided”, and then touched it, burning the mirror image of the die into his thumb.

Anyway, I had a Swiftech MC462 at that time. The less I fussed with it, the happier I was, becuase I felt like there was too high a chance of damaging the die every time I messed with it.

Athlon Coolers reviewed March 2001:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/730

Nice heatsink… but it is a good example, what you shouldnt do, if you want use a smaller cfm fan. The first zalmans performed terribly, but the idea was great, and it was the key to create the first high performance but silent cpu coolers.

Anno I played a lot with the right water cooling radiator and fan setup, there was an optimal fin density, and if the radiator become too complex (too much pipe layers), the blowing setup was not optimal anymore, you had to create negative air pressure to ventillating the fins well.

I really liked the zalmans creativity, they had great ideas, and finally the fin design won, just they had to use the heatpipes. That was the point i gave up the water cooling design, we had good enough coolers for long time to cool down until 100-150 tdp watts. When they started these crazy 200-300 watt cpus and 300-400 watt gpus, that was the point, when i sold my pc, and bought a passive macbook air m1.

My little retro computer world
Overdoze of the demoscene

Reply 13 of 14, by arncht

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I do not remember to every milestones at the cpu cooling, but:
* zalman flower design was great with the 7000 series in 2003, as efficient cooler
* and in 2004 finally we reached the heatpipe tower design (maybe the cooler master hyper was the first), since then no really big improvements, just smaller steps at the optimizations

My little retro computer world
Overdoze of the demoscene

Reply 14 of 14, by momaka

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In regards to using old Enermax and FSP PSUs: always open them and at least visually check for bad caps. Enermax with bad PCE-TUR/TUL caps is not uncommon at all. FSP used a mix of CapXon and Teapo, among others, all of which have a high tendency of becoming problematic over time.

As for heatsinks, not sure what to recommend. I was just tipping my toes into understanding how PCs work back then and same with PC building (PC "n00b" would be correct term here 😁 ) My first system was a Duron Applebred 1400, so not really a "hot" CPU (meaning in more than a one way 🤣 ). It had a more or less standard Athlon XP heatsink at the time - tall, sparsely-placed aluminum fins with a copper insert on the bottom. Only nicer thing about it is that it used a 80 mm fan (with a plastic adapter), so it was not as annoying in terms of noise... that is, later on when I got a fan controller. Otherwise, that 80 mm fan is as loud and annoying as any fan from that era. Moves quite a bit of air, though. It's a mix of BB and sleeve bearing. The BB at the front is rather loud. Probably should rebuild it (clean and re-pack with lithium grease) one day.