This obsoletes all the carefully tuned (for slowness) K6 and VIA CPU builds , people not like when something simple erases their efforts 😀

Re: No One's Gonna Talk About Throttle Blaster?

Will have to get the Chinese to implement this technology in newly made motherboards from the factory.

What’s unfortunate is all my k6-2 and older stuff works but p3 and higher is mostly DOA for me.

rasz_pl wrote on 2024-04-08, 19:35:

This obsoletes all the carefully tuned (for slowness) K6 and VIA CPU builds , people not like when something simple erases their efforts 😀

That pretty much changes little, because late Socket 370 and early Socket A (both with ISA) platforms were already considered as best solution for your buck as a universal retro system.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2024-04-09, 02:08:

rasz_pl wrote on 2024-04-08, 19:35:

This obsoletes all the carefully tuned (for slowness) K6 and VIA CPU builds , people not like when something simple erases their efforts 😀

That pretty much changes little, because late Socket 370 and early Socket A (both with ISA) platforms were already considered as best solution for your buck as a universal retro system.

How is that??? With respect, both weren't considered very good universal retro platforms at all. Socket370/Slot1 is only good with something like a Via C3 and a magic PLL that's compatible with only one DOS program... Socket A was nice for the ISA slot, but a bit of a hassle to get working with on-the-fly multiplier adjustment (and the motherboards are expensive). Pentium MMX was leaps and bounds easier to configure and not to mention much more readily available -- but the speed was quite limited.

With this solution, literally take any board out there with an ISA slot and you have a fully universal retro platform. It can be done for less than 50 bucks.

Sweet, another tool in the toolbox.

By doing it with stopclk isn't it going to have some of the same problems that the APCI throttling does? Not the ones where you can't quite get the right speed, but more the stuttering and uneven surges type.

BitWrangler wrote on 2024-04-09, 04:04:

Sweet, another tool in the toolbox.

By doing it with stopclk isn't it going to have some of the same problems that the APCI throttling does? Not the ones where you can't quite get the right speed, but more the stuttering and uneven surges type.

You mean ODCM... No, not from what I'm reading... It seems to be fully linear in its scaling... I ordered some PCBs, I'm eager to test it out... Let's see if Herr Phil releases a video in the near future about this. I saw him poking about in the Youtube comments.

With respect, both weren't considered very good universal retro platforms at all. Socket370/Slot1 is only good with something like a Via C3 and a magic PLL that's compatible with only one DOS program...

I think most people consider struggles with PC/XT stuff as a non-issue, because you can run it perfectly fine on P3 system via DOSBOX as a "slow down" tool.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2024-04-09, 04:37:

With respect, both weren't considered very good universal retro platforms at all. Socket370/Slot1 is only good with something like a Via C3 and a magic PLL that's compatible with only one DOS program...

I think most people consider struggles with PC/XT stuff as a non-issue, because you can run it perfectly fine on P3 system via DOSBOX as a "slow down" tool.

Hate to point this out but emulation is not a replacement for actual hardware, that aside DOSBox isn't to everyone's taste, I personally avoid it if I have the actual hardware to work with, a Pentium 133 with SetMul will also work perfectly fine as a multi platform DOS machine all the way down to XT speeds.

As for DOSBox being a Slow Down tool .. yeah sure I guess you can fuck around with it for that purpose if you dont actually have any acceptable real hardware to work with.

Neither DOSBox* nor SetMul** are good solutions for XT booter games. And I'm hoping that this device is able to apply its slow effect from the moment the computer turns on.

* My booter games are original and disk-protected, which isn't supported by DOSBox.

** Not possible since you don't even get to DOS in a booter game.

i really want to build a throttle blaster to test, looks amazing

mockingbird wrote on 2024-04-09, 03:50:

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2024-04-09, 02:08:

rasz_pl wrote on 2024-04-08, 19:35:

This obsoletes all the carefully tuned (for slowness) K6 and VIA CPU builds , people not like when something simple erases their efforts 😀

That pretty much changes little, because late Socket 370 and early Socket A (both with ISA) platforms were already considered as best solution for your buck as a universal retro system.

How is that??? With respect, both weren't considered very good universal retro platforms at all.

A isa pentium 3 board, specially with VIA chipset is incredible universal

You have ISA for soundcard, hercules card, etc, AGP for a perfect compatible graphic cards, like nvidia riva128+ S3 Trident etc, and PCI for stuff like secondary vga, etc. Normally this boards have at least 32GB hdd support but latest 128gb, dont have problems with IDE>CF IDE>SATA etc, they still have support for old

With trottle you can slowdown to XT levels without much trouble, and other options, like bret jhonson slowint1 still works fine

I dont know, sounds pretty universal to me

rasz_pl wrote on 2024-04-08, 19:35:

This obsoletes all the carefully tuned (for slowness) K6 and VIA CPU builds , people not like when something simple erases their efforts 😀

I can't help but chuckle every time I read that sentence, re-obsoletes maybe?

Though I can see it would be useful still even with those for further fine tuning.

The big question though, does it do much for the ivybridge thru haswell e-waste heap that's gonna get huge when win10 is unsupported? Coz a lot of that will be cheap to free.

wbahnassi wrote on 2024-04-09, 13:52:

** Not possible since you don't even get to DOS in a booter game.

Some days ago i start testing this games list one by one in my pentium 3

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_self-bo … ompatible_games

For now, i find almost all games to download and 100% working in DOS, still testing and looking for some missing titles

Running them is not the problem. They will run on a P3... but too fast 🙂

wbahnassi wrote on 2024-04-09, 19:21:

Running them is not the problem. They will run on a P3... but too fast 🙂

For now, i already tested 98 games from 229 on the list, half of them, 44 works fine, 36 more need fine tune throttle or some fixes like not using qemm to work, and the rest or hang, or corrupt graphics, need more testing but i dont have the time. When i say works fine is just start and small play test

In fact, 23 games from 98 works fine at 1ghz speed... even not need to reduce speed to XT levels

Until i finish, i can say the compatibility for early 80s games is very good, even my harris 286 25mhz is not soo good because i have lees optiosn to slowdown

theelf wrote on 2024-04-09, 15:50:

A isa pentium 3 board, specially with VIA chipset is incredible universal

It's mediocre, at best. I say this based on the convergence of experiences I have over the years in the hobby... Disabling caches, ODCM, and other methods just don't cut it... The only thing I have had good luck with is a 5x86 which doubles as a slow Pentium and a 486 dx/33 (setmul 1, setmul 3), and it is expensive, rare, and difficult to get working right. Setmul with a 5x86 doesn't quite work right unless I use it with my PCI 486 motherboard... Also, even good VLB graphics adapters are only VBE 1.2 compatible without univbe.

Something intermediate to that between a slow pentium and a fast athlon is the C3 Ezra-T. But a 1Ghz Ezra-T system is also rare and expensive, even if it is incredibly versatile... It's the only thing I would say that could give Throttle Blaster a run for its money. But Ezra-T is also pretty slow, and when it's overclocked it might match a PIII Katmai at 500Mhz.

You have ISA for soundcard, hercules card, etc, AGP for a perfect compatible graphic cards, like nvidia riva128+ S3 Trident etc, and PCI for stuff like secondary vga, etc. Normally this boards have at least 32GB hdd support but latest 128gb, dont have problems with IDE>CF IDE>SATA etc, they still have support for old

But PIIIs and Celerons are multiplier locked, and FSBs on most boards only go down to 66Mhz (and 50Mhz if you have a unicorn). Following your argument for a moment, let's take an Athlon XP -- as good as P3, ISA slots, and on-the-fly multiplier and FSB modification. You mod a Barton (or use an XP-M) and then hardwire the socket on the back for 100Mhz and some really high multiplier. Fine, you get 2Ghz. The lowest you're going to be able to run the thing is at 300Mhz. Now you've got to start playing with other methods of slowing down.

With setmul and Throttle Blaster on an Athlon XP, you have an incredibly diverse range of speed modification. A 2Ghz Barton is incredibly powerful but then you can take it down to 300Mhz and throttle it down with the STPCLK method further.

With trottle you can slowdown to XT levels without much trouble, and other options, like bret jhonson slowint1 still works fine

I looked up slowint1, the first result I found was a post of someone on Vogons complaining about it interfering with the game.

I dont know, sounds pretty universal to me

Abound are games that simply don't work with conventional throttling methods. Before someone come on here and says "well that game is poorly programmed" -- I don't care... I just want it to work. Titus The Fox will not play the music properly if the speed isn't precise. Jazz Jackrabbit does not work right with ODCM. And those are just two off the top of my head.

This method of speed control is really clever ! Very very flexible ~

mockingbird wrote on 2024-04-09, 21:45:

It's mediocre, at best. I say this based on the convergence of experiences I have over the years in the hobby... Disabling cac […]
Show full quote

theelf wrote on 2024-04-09, 15:50:

A isa pentium 3 board, specially with VIA chipset is incredible universal

It's mediocre, at best. I say this based on the convergence of experiences I have over the years in the hobby... Disabling caches, ODCM, and other methods just don't cut it... The only thing I have had good luck with is a 5x86 which doubles as a slow Pentium and a 486 dx/33 (setmul 1, setmul 3), and it is expensive, rare, and difficult to get working right. Setmul with a 5x86 doesn't quite work right unless I use it with my PCI 486 motherboard... Also, even good VLB graphics adapters are only VBE 1.2 compatible without univbe.

Something intermediate to that between a slow pentium and a fast athlon is the C3 Ezra-T. But a 1Ghz Ezra-T system is also rare and expensive, even if it is incredibly versatile... It's the only thing I would say that could give Throttle Blaster a run for its money. But Ezra-T is also pretty slow, and when it's overclocked it might match a PIII Katmai at 500Mhz.

You have ISA for soundcard, hercules card, etc, AGP for a perfect compatible graphic cards, like nvidia riva128+ S3 Trident etc, and PCI for stuff like secondary vga, etc. Normally this boards have at least 32GB hdd support but latest 128gb, dont have problems with IDE>CF IDE>SATA etc, they still have support for old

But PIIIs and Celerons are multiplier locked, and FSBs on most boards only go down to 66Mhz (and 50Mhz if you have a unicorn). Following your argument for a moment, let's take an Athlon XP -- as good as P3, ISA slots, and on-the-fly multiplier and FSB modification. You mod a Barton (or use an XP-M) and then hardwire the socket on the back for 100Mhz and some really high multiplier. Fine, you get 2Ghz. The lowest you're going to be able to run the thing is at 300Mhz. Now you've got to start playing with other methods of slowing down.

With setmul and Throttle Blaster on an Athlon XP, you have an incredibly diverse range of speed modification. A 2Ghz Barton is incredibly powerful but then you can take it down to 300Mhz and throttle it down with the STPCLK method further.

With trottle you can slowdown to XT levels without much trouble, and other options, like bret jhonson slowint1 still works fine

I looked up slowint1, the first result I found was a post of someone on Vogons complaining about it interfering with the game.

I dont know, sounds pretty universal to me

Abound are games that simply don't work with conventional throttling methods. Before someone come on here and says "well that game is poorly programmed" -- I don't care... I just want it to work. Titus The Fox will not play the music properly if the speed isn't precise. Jazz Jackrabbit does not work right with ODCM. And those are just two off the top of my head.

I think you dont know/did not read how throttle works, please read and test and then came again and post results

I can slowdown my P3 1ghz to half a XT 4.77mhz just with one command

For example I can play zaxxon or battlezone at correct speed, agent USA or Flightmare not only correct speed but in composite mode, enjoy Test Drive in hercules mode, to play Quake in high res... my riva 128 have vesa 3, windows 3.1, 95+ drivers, a secondary cirrus logic output RGB/composite at 15khz, etc

if this is not universal... i dont know what is...

theelf wrote on 2024-04-09, 23:14:

I think you dont know/did not read how throttle works, please read and test and then came again and post results

I can slowdown my P3 1ghz to half a XT 4.77mhz just with one command

I'm not saying Throttle ain't good... It needs to be used in combination with slowing down actual clock speed. From the horse's mouth:

"That being said...
Throttle is not intended as a complete replacement for software slowdowns. Because of the hardware based nature of how throttle works, it cannot
replace all software based slowdown utilities. There just aren't enough chipsets available that support the way throttle works.

Because throttle is also limited to the percentage of slowdown provided by the chipset manufacturer, you may even find that with CPU speeds over 800MHz at maximum throttling, the system STILL might be too fast for you.

You'll probably find that optimal results occur from a combination of using throttle and software based slowdowns at the same time.
Use throttle to slow your machine down significantly, then augment the slowdown with a tiny software delay to "fine tune" the performance to your
liking."

I think multiplier adjustment combined with STPCLK is better than Throttle, yes. Maybe Throttle can be used in conjunction with both of those on an Athlon XP/VIA system... Perhaps Herr Phil will cover that in his next video.

mockingbird wrote on 2024-04-09, 23:36:

I'm not saying Throttle ain't good... It needs to be used in combination with slowing down actual clock speed. From the horse' […]
Show full quote

theelf wrote on 2024-04-09, 23:14:

I think you dont know/did not read how throttle works, please read and test and then came again and post results

I can slowdown my P3 1ghz to half a XT 4.77mhz just with one command

I'm not saying Throttle ain't good... It needs to be used in combination with slowing down actual clock speed. From the horse's mouth:

"That being said...
Throttle is not intended as a complete replacement for software slowdowns. Because of the hardware based nature of how throttle works, it cannot
replace all software based slowdown utilities. There just aren't enough chipsets available that support the way throttle works.

Because throttle is also limited to the percentage of slowdown provided by the chipset manufacturer, you may even find that with CPU speeds over 800MHz at maximum throttling, the system STILL might be too fast for you.

You'll probably find that optimal results occur from a combination of using throttle and software based slowdowns at the same time.
Use throttle to slow your machine down significantly, then augment the slowdown with a tiny software delay to "fine tune" the performance to your
liking."
I think multiplier adjustment combined with STPCLK is better than Throttle, yes. Maybe Throttle can be used in conjunction with both of those... Perhaps Herr Phil will cover that in his next video.

No, like i said you have 8 steps of throttle, but VIA have 16 ones, plus you can disable CPU cache

In my Pentium 3 1ghz VIA chipset, with cache enabled, i can range from 0 throttle, 1GHZ, to F throttle, aprox a 486DX2-DX4, and in middle 16 steps

With CPU cache disabled, my 1ghz P3 became more or less a 386 DX33, then i have 16 steps, 0 DX33, and F is aprox a 2mhz 8086

With a intel chipset, the only difference is that you have only 8 steps, but not a big deal, and you only need to know how your cpu slowdown to max with/witout cache, but i can reach XT 4.77 levels in my celeron 366 mendocino intel chipset, in my PII 450, and in the P3 1ghz, just different settings of throttle

And a Pentium 2/3 board with ISA is cheap as hell

Like i said, is pretty clear you did not tested throttle enought, please do, and post again with results