Technically it already has been dropped, what you think of DirectDraw since Windows 8 is actually emulated by DirectX 11/12 and since its now emulated there really isn't any reason for it to ever be removed.

Even D3D9 is emulated under windows 10 and 11 which is why D3D9 games tend to run slower than they would on pre Windows 10/11 systems.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previo ... 5(v=vs.85)

It was actually DirectX 9 that deprecated DirectDraw since all 2d functions were moved to be contained within D3D instead.

I vaguely recall people installing the old DX install package on Windows 10 to bring back DirectDraw and older functions. I didn't do that, but I do sort of remember that people were downloading the old installer that would install the old DX files for use.

RetroGamer4Ever wrote on 2022-05-31, 11:16:

I vaguely recall people installing the old DX install package on Windows 10 to bring back DirectDraw and older functions. I didn't do that, but I do sort of remember that people were downloading the old installer that would install the old DX files for use.

There is a project that can do that, I dont know how compatible it would be however or safe to use long term, windows updates far to frequently and breaks a lot of shit with each update so unless you can stop Windows 10/11 from updating I feel something like this is likely to break pretty fast.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-31, 11:24:

RetroGamer4Ever wrote on 2022-05-31, 11:16:

I vaguely recall people installing the old DX install package on Windows 10 to bring back DirectDraw and older functions. I didn't do that, but I do sort of remember that people were downloading the old installer that would install the old DX files for use.

There is a project that can do that, I dont know how compatible it would be however or safe to use long term, windows updates far to frequently and breaks a lot of shit with each update so unless you can stop Windows 10/11 from updating I feel something like this is likely to break pretty fast.

DX uses separate DLLs for each version, if a software uses an old DX API it won't use a DLL from a later DX version.

As for Windows updates, they usually appear the second Tuesday of each month (save for out-of-band security updates).

Gmlb256 wrote on 2022-05-31, 12:55:

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-31, 11:24:

RetroGamer4Ever wrote on 2022-05-31, 11:16:

I vaguely recall people installing the old DX install package on Windows 10 to bring back DirectDraw and older functions. I didn't do that, but I do sort of remember that people were downloading the old installer that would install the old DX files for use.

There is a project that can do that, I dont know how compatible it would be however or safe to use long term, windows updates far to frequently and breaks a lot of shit with each update so unless you can stop Windows 10/11 from updating I feel something like this is likely to break pretty fast.

DX uses separate DLLs for each version, if a software uses an old DX API it won't use a DLL from a later DX version.

As for Windows updates, they usually appear the second Tuesday of each month (save for out-of-band security updates).

I’m a beta channel insider, mine are nearly every day lately, new version of 11 soon.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-31, 13:55:

Gmlb256 wrote on 2022-05-31, 12:55:

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-31, 11:24:

There is a project that can do that, I dont know how compatible it would be however or safe to use long term, windows updates far to frequently and breaks a lot of shit with each update so unless you can stop Windows 10/11 from updating I feel something like this is likely to break pretty fast.

DX uses separate DLLs for each version, if a software uses an old DX API it won't use a DLL from a later DX version.

As for Windows updates, they usually appear the second Tuesday of each month (save for out-of-band security updates).

I’m a beta channel insider, mine are nearly every day lately, new version of 11 soon.

I see. From a normal user's perspective, the feature updates are much less frequent.

The last living DirectDraw was from DirectX 7, afterwards DirectDraw was deprecated.
That roughly was the last time the DDraw was supported as an independent component in the DirectX SDK.

In fact, it's being emulated (rendered) since Windows Vista through Direct3D.
Which is kind of ironic, because ddraw.dll was crucial for the working of Direct3D.
(It's visible due to the lack of bilinear filtering on Vista also. That's the work of Direct3D.)

The only exception is when software rendering is forced:
If you put, say, XP's ddraw.dll in the game's/application's folder,
software-rendering is doing things.
Not sure which output it uses, though. Maxbe GDI/GDI+, not sure.
That way, you can perform a quick'n'dirty fix to get your classic running with filtering.
It also fixes slowdowns in Virtual PC 200x on Vista/7.

Since Windows Vista, there's nolonger an direct/exclusive access to the video memory (frame buffer).
So DirectDraw can't use an overlay anymore.
WDDM or/and the Composition Manager have total control over the GPU.
Okay, with older XPM graphics drivers, some things may work, not sure. 🤷‍♂️

Edit: I'm speaking under correction, but Windows 8.x and 1x have multiple versions of DirectX installed.
- classic DirectX 9, which gets updated still (curr9at 9.29?).
- the native DirectX, which has DirectX 9 compatible libraries
- ...?

Edit: Oh and didn't get Windows 8 some sort of new software rasterizer? WARP or something? 🤔
I'm sorry, I'm not up to date anymore.

Edit: Then there's DXGL.. https://dxgl.org/

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-31, 11:01:

Technically it already has been dropped, what you think of DirectDraw since Windows 8 is actually emulated by DirectX 11/12 and […]
Show full quote

Technically it already has been dropped, what you think of DirectDraw since Windows 8 is actually emulated by DirectX 11/12 and since its now emulated there really isn't any reason for it to ever be removed.

Even D3D9 is emulated under windows 10 and 11 which is why D3D9 games tend to run slower than they would on pre Windows 10/11 systems.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previo ... 5(v=vs.85)

It was actually DirectX 9 that deprecated DirectDraw since all 2d functions were moved to be contained within D3D instead.

I am quite not sure about emulating D3D9. What I know is ONLY the latest Intel iGPUs are doing ddraw.dll -> d3d9.dll -> d3d12.dll. And they do d3d9.dll -> d3d12.dll for DX9 games as well.

I am not sure Direct3D contains DirectDraw functions, I rather believe D3D just emulates DDraw.

RetroGamer4Ever wrote on 2022-05-31, 11:16:

I vaguely recall people installing the old DX install package on Windows 10 to bring back DirectDraw and older functions. I didn't do that, but I do sort of remember that people were downloading the old installer that would install the old DX files for use.

It was already there, the grey installer as I vividly remember would just update DirectX files. The old DirectX installers should naturally do nothing.

Jo22 wrote on 2022-05-31, 14:19:

The last living DirectDraw was from DirectX 7, afterwards DirectDraw was deprecated. That roughly was the last time the DDraw wa […]
Show full quote

The last living DirectDraw was from DirectX 7, afterwards DirectDraw was deprecated.
That roughly was the last time the DDraw was supported as an independent component in the DirectX SDK.

In fact, it's being emulated (rendered) since Windows Vista through Direct3D.
Which is kind of ironic, because ddraw.dll was crucial for the working of Direct3D.
(It's visible due to the lack of bilinear filtering on Vista also. That's the work of Direct3D.)

The only exception is when software rendering is forced:
If you put, say, XP's ddraw.dll in the game's/application's folder,
software-rendering is doing things.
Not sure which output it uses, though. Maxbe GDI/GDI+, not sure.
That way, you can perform a quick'n'dirty fix to get your classic running with filtering.
It also fixes slowdowns in Virtual PC 200x on Vista/7.

Since Windows Vista, there's nolonger an direct/exclusive access to the video memory (frame buffer).
So DirectDraw can't use an overlay anymore.
WDDM or/and the Composition Manager have total control over the GPU.
Okay, with older XPM graphics drivers, some things may work, not sure. 🤷‍♂️

Edit: I'm speaking under correction, but Windows 8.x and 1x have multiple versions of DirectX installed.
- classic DirectX 9, which gets updated still (curr9at 9.29?).
- the native DirectX, which has DirectX 9 compatible libraries
- ...?

Edit: Oh and didn't get Windows 8 some sort of new software rasterizer? WARP or something? 🤔
I'm sorry, I'm not up to date anymore.

Edit: Then there's DXGL.. https://dxgl.org/

yes, they implemented WARP in Windows 8. It has helped me in just case, but cases should vary with drivers.

I am not sure how old DirectX is updated now. There's clear difference in file sizes of ddraw.dll, but I wonder what changes (and if things are being removed since Vista) . In fact I have seen DirectDraw breaking and getting fixed in the recent times, clear examples in Windows 10 and Windows 7 comparision.

They are not implementing features, this is
apparent but they still change things. By this statement I mean that they are still changing things for ddraw.dll, d3d7imm.dll, d3dimm.dll, d3d8.dll, d3d9.dll, d3d10.dll

I have not seen bilinear filtering changes (is it for Vista+ or only Vista), since trilinear and bilinear appear almost same to me.

Putting XP's DDRAW.DLL might run in GDI/GDI+, but whenever I tried, there were ordinal errors.

D3D handles all 2d functions within windows, including DirectDraw functions, says as much in the link I provided.