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First post, by Zup

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I'm going through my games collection and I wanted to rip the soundtrack of some games that had CD audio (using fre:ac). So far, I've found this problems:

1.- No cddb info for most games. I wanted my mp3 to have tags with titles... but it seems that info is not in (default) cddb database. Does anyone knows where can I get that info?
2.- Using CUE/BIN files. Some of my games are in this format (games from GoG). I guess the audio is an exact copy from the original, and better than their own mp3 files, so I'd like to rip from the CUE/BIN combo... but fre:ac can not open the cue file. Is there anything I'm missing? Or have anyone a suggestion of a non-invasive (=no permanent loaded drivers) virtual CD that could be used with fre:ac?
3.- GoG images are not the real thing. Most GoG images have only the audio tracks and the needed things to run the game, so there are not equal to the real discs. Could this be an issue (I know that cddb detection would fail)? Did they changed the audio or is a straight dump from the real discs?
4.- Copying tags. In some cases (i.e.: HoMaM2), GoG provides a zip file that contains the OST. Their files have all the ID3 tags, but my original disc is not detected on cddb... how can I copy (automatically) those tags to my "fresh" mp3?
5.- Subcodes? I've also dumped some games (TFX) to use them in DOSbox. I guess that some of them (Pro Pinball Timeshock!) may be using the subcode thing to play the music. How can I know which games need to be dumped as "raw" and which ones not?

Thanks.

I have traveled across the universe and through the years to find Her.
Sometimes going all the way is just a start...

I'm selling some stuff!

Reply 2 of 4, by Ryccardo

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Zup wrote on 2023-05-06, 06:58:

1.- No cddb info for most games. I wanted my mp3 to have tags with titles... but it seems that info is not in (default) cddb database. Does anyone knows where can I get that info?

Type them in yourself and then upload to freedb 😜
(Or even "better", they're actually complementary IMO though this one is far more flexible, MusicBrainz)

Zup wrote on 2023-05-06, 06:58:

2.- Using CUE/BIN files. Some of my games are in this format (games from GoG). I guess the audio is an exact copy from the original, and better than their own mp3 files, so I'd like to rip from the CUE/BIN combo... but fre:ac can not open the cue file. Is there anything I'm missing? Or have anyone a suggestion of a non-invasive (=no permanent loaded drivers) virtual CD that could be used with fre:ac?

The best/only ripper I know to accept a raw disc image is XLD, a Mac exclusive... but since an audio track is a raw PCM/16bit/stereo/44100 kHz stream, it's probably easier to not use a ripper in the first place (the actual ripping was already done!*), convert to split-track format, and from there to your codec of choice (most, including LAME, have a raw input mode)

* = Caveat - read the second point on this page I wrote: https://consolemods.org/wiki/PS1:Creating_Game_Backups (or maybe just the cdparanoia manpage? 😜), then you'll understand why a general purpose data CD image may not be very accurate, though for the purpose of simply enjoying the music it may all be irrelevant

Zup wrote on 2023-05-06, 06:58:

Most GoG images have only the audio tracks and the needed things to run the game, so there are not equal to the real discs. Could this be an issue (I know that cddb detection would fail)? Did they changed the audio or is a straight dump from the real discs?

Dunno, but (as also hinted to in that page 😀 ) a standard CDRWIN cuesheet supports only 4 audio formats/containers (raw, wave, mp3, another one maybe aiff), but in practice you almost always see the raw type (BINARY) or the WAVE abused with files in any format, if it's the former you can do as I suggested in (2), for the latter you can't but you'll probably already have an usable audio file 😀

(Oh, another tangential hint - if, as I think given your initial request, you're on an Unix-like system, the "file" program is very useful to identify stuff!)

Zup wrote on 2023-05-06, 06:58:

4.- Copying tags.

Haven't used it in ages but Easytag should be able to do it, at least the Windows-exclusive MP3TAG which is much similar can (you load a folder with the source tracks, sort by name - hopefully they start with track number! or just rename them first which you can also do with these programs, export, load the destination folder, sort, import)

...if it fails and the format is the same, there's almost certainly a command line program that can do the same depending on how much time you want to put in labor VS in automating that labor 😜

...actually, Picard (the main MusicBrainz GUI client) probably can bulk copy/paste tags too?

Zup wrote on 2023-05-06, 06:58:

5.- Subcodes? I've also dumped some games (TFX) to use them in DOSbox. I guess that some of them (Pro Pinball Timeshock!) may be using the subcode thing to play the music. How can I know which games need to be dumped as "raw" and which ones not?

In a standard CDDA (not CD+G and no or basic CD-Text), including the audio part of a Mixed Mode CD, the subcode is all metadata mostly unrelated to the actual song (current position on disc and track, a redundant track change marker, the SPDIF copy protection flag, ...) - the only one which audibly matters is the preemphasis (which I strongly doubt any for-computer disc uses, though certainly possible) and the only one which I think may me in play in the scenario you described is the INDEX (sub-track divisions);

fortunately, a cue sheet already mostly provides for high-level subcode data (with, yup, TRACK/INDEX/FLAGS/CATALOG/ISRC commands, and even basic CD-Text with TITLE/PERFORMER), so unless you also want an accurate/playable backup of a DRM'd software you don't need an actual copy of the subcode (not that you'd have many options - CloneCD-compatible IMG+CCD+SUB is the only remotely popular format, AFAIK) 😀

Getting one raw or converted sound file per index, if that's what you really want, isn't very different than splitting a disc into tracks (but, like indexes themselves as a concept, suffers from much lower compatibility - you could roll your own cuesheet converting indexes to individual tracks if you have to; I think the most practical software for index-splitting this is Exact Audio Copy on Windows and even then it's limited);
Ditto if you need to apply preemphasis since pretty much nothing famous supports it, especially outside the CD format (can easily be done with SOX if you look up the appropriate filters to apply)

Good luck and don't feel bad if you didn't understand this immediately, if I added an explaination of the lead-in, lead-out and the TOC (plus CD-Text and CD+G extensions) it would pretty much be the entire Red Book 😜

Reply 3 of 4, by Zup

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Sorry for the late answer... I've been very busy...

Pierre32 wrote on 2023-05-06, 07:27:

Don't know if it's useful to you, but I know that bchunk (linux) will convert bin/cue to a data ISO + individual music tracks in .wav format.

Thanks. One of my goals was preserving some DOS games, so I wanted to do a cue/bin image and a (smaller) cue/iso/mp3 image. That tool is useful to separate the tracks, but... (more on this later).

Ryccardo wrote on 2023-05-06, 20:21:

Type them in yourself and then upload to freedb 😜
(Or even "better", they're actually complementary IMO though this one is far more flexible, MusicBrainz)

freedb is no more, so I guess you refer to gnudb. MusicBrainz seems to be off-limits to my ripper (fre:ac), because they shut down their gateway service (or so says wikipedia).

In any case, what I wanted was getting that information. If I knew the titles of the tracks, I would type them on fre:ac and upload them (i.e.: I've got HoMaM 2 Gold released by Codegame, I got the titles from GoG and uploaded it). The problem is getting that info.

Pierre32 wrote on 2023-05-06, 07:27:
In a standard CDDA (not CD+G and no or basic CD-Text), including the audio part of a Mixed Mode CD, the subcode is all metadata […]
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In a standard CDDA (not CD+G and no or basic CD-Text), including the audio part of a Mixed Mode CD, the subcode is all metadata mostly unrelated to the actual song (current position on disc and track, a redundant track change marker, the SPDIF copy protection flag, ...) - the only one which audibly matters is the preemphasis (which I strongly doubt any for-computer disc uses, though certainly possible) and the only one which I think may me in play in the scenario you described is the INDEX (sub-track divisions);

fortunately, a cue sheet already mostly provides for high-level subcode data (with, yup, TRACK/INDEX/FLAGS/CATALOG/ISRC commands, and even basic CD-Text with TITLE/PERFORMER), so unless you also want an accurate/playable backup of a DRM'd software you don't need an actual copy of the subcode (not that you'd have many options - CloneCD-compatible IMG+CCD+SUB is the only remotely popular format, AFAIK) 😀

Getting one raw or converted sound file per index, if that's what you really want, isn't very different than splitting a disc into tracks (but, like indexes themselves as a concept, suffers from much lower compatibility - you could roll your own cuesheet converting indexes to individual tracks if you have to; I think the most practical software for index-splitting this is Exact Audio Copy on Windows and even then it's limited);
Ditto if you need to apply preemphasis since pretty much nothing famous supports it, especially outside the CD format (can easily be done with SOX if you look up the appropriate filters to apply)

Good luck and don't feel bad if you didn't understand this immediately, if I added an explaination of the lead-in, lead-out and the TOC (plus CD-Text and CD+G extensions) it would pretty much be the entire Red Book 😜

Still confused about this, thanks to cdrdao and bchunk...

The main issue is that cdrdao in raw mode seems to be incompatible with both dosbox and bchunk. That is:

  • cdrdao can work in "normal" mode (it doesn't read subcodes or anything beyond the usual data) or in "raw" mode (reading the entire sectors).
  • dosbox can use cue/bin images generated in normal mode. Trying to use imgmount on a "raw" image fails (says that the image is invalid). Also fails if you're using a ISO generated with bchunk, and when opened with 7z the image is empty.
  • bchunk processes both "normal" and "raw" images without problems. The ISO files generated from "normal" images are fine, the ones generated from "raw" not. Also, the WAV files from "normal" images are fine but the ones from "raw" images have cracks and noises (it doesn't matter if you use the "raw" switch of bchunk).

Looking at some logs... let's start with Heroes of Might and Magic 2 Gold (my CodeGame release):

Copying data track 1 (MODE1): start 00:00:00, length 28:16:27 to "HEROES_2.bin"...
ERROR: L-EC error around sector 127062 while copying data from track.
ERROR: Use option '--read-raw' to ignore L-EC errors.

This happens when using cdrdao in "normal" mode. It can't extract all the data, so forces me to use it in "raw" mode.

Copying data track 1 (MODE1_RAW): start 00:00:00, length 28:16:27 to "HEROES_2.bin"... Found L-EC error at sector 127075 - ignor […]
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Copying data track 1 (MODE1_RAW): start 00:00:00, length 28:16:27 to "HEROES_2.bin"...
Found L-EC error at sector 127075 - ignored.
Found L-EC error at sector 127076 - ignored.
Found L-EC error at sector 127077 - ignored.
...
Found L-EC error at sector 127224 - ignored.
Found L-EC error at sector 127225 - ignored.
Found L-EC error at sector 127226 - ignored.
Copying audio tracks 2-43: start 28:18:27, length 45:19:50 to "HEROES_2.bin"...
Track 2...
Track 3...
...
Track 41...
Track 42...
Track 43...
Reading of toc and track data finished successfully.

So it seems that it had some errors on it. They seems part of a protection (so you can't dump the game normally), but the (DOS) game doesn't seems to verify this. It should work if you ignore that information, but cdrdao can't dump it. Is there any mean to dump it with cdrdao but having a "normal" output?
It also happens with Fast Attack (Sierra), but aggravated because neither the errors nor the audio track are used in the game.

On the other hand...

Copying data track 1 (MODE1): start 00:00:00, length 07:27:64 to "TFX.bin"... Copying audio tracks 2-15: start 07:29:64, length […]
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Copying data track 1 (MODE1): start 00:00:00, length 07:27:64 to "TFX.bin"...
Copying audio tracks 2-15: start 07:29:64, length 52:50:55 to "TFX.bin"...
Track 2...
Track 3...
...
Track 15...
Found 1182 Q sub-channels with CRC errors.
Reading of toc and track data finished successfully.

This happen when dumping TFX (also my Pro-Pinball Timeshock! released by dinamic). It suggest that the Q sub-channel may have something interesting and should be dumped in "raw" mode. As I said, dumping this on "normal" mode works fine with dosbox, 7z and bchunk... dumping it on "raw" mode fails.

Am I doing something wrong?

Another interesting thing is that TFX adn HoMaM 2 seems to have duplicated tracks. If I compare them using a binary tool, they are not equal... but they sound the same (maybe they're offset by some samples?). Are there any tool that could compare sound files and tell me if they are the same?

NOTE: Before someone gets the lock hammer, Codegame was a brand from Ubisoft that made cheap re-releases (HoMaM 2 Gold was sold as a 9,95€ title). dinamic multimedia bouth rights to publish titles on Spain, often after translating them.
NOTE 2:: I guess that the "raw" dumps will work fine if I burn them on new CDs, but that's not the goal.

I have traveled across the universe and through the years to find Her.
Sometimes going all the way is just a start...

I'm selling some stuff!

Reply 4 of 4, by jmarsh

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Zup wrote on 2023-05-14, 08:29:

[*]dosbox can use cue/bin images generated in normal mode. Trying to use imgmount on a "raw" image fails (says that the image is invalid).

DOSBox can only imgmount normal (mode 1) .iso/.bin files, because it can examine the ISO9660 filesystem directly. If you want to mount a "raw" (mode 2) image you must imgmount the .cue sheet file for it instead (which will tell DOSBox the image uses mode 2/2352 byte sectors as well as the length and positions of any audio tracks).