At this point, the Xbox Game Pass and alternatives economically look like a better option

I am as big an opponent of online DRM as anyone - I only buy my digital games from GOG - but The Crew is a rather poor example, almost clickbait-grade in my opinion.

Let's see. An online-only game, with no single-player content at all (per my understanding), which was from the day of its release tied to the servers of the publisher. What exactly did you expect?

That the publisher shall be legally obligated to keep the gaming servers online until the heat death of the universe?
That the publisher, before unplugging the servers, shall be legally obligated to add single-player content to the game and release it for free? Or perhaps add a LAN mode? Release the game's source so that someone else can hack it and run their own third party software?

You probably didn't expect any of that. The game already became useless with the shutdown of the servers 2 weeks ago. Yes, removing it from the accounts may seem like a unilateral license revocation, which is what got people pissed. I suppose Ubisoft did it to cut down on tech support calls from people trying to launch the game and getting an error.

All in all - it's like buying a punch card subscription to a gym or an amusement park. Even if there is no expiration date on card, one must understand that the gym / park can one day simply shut down / move / go out of business.

I have in front of me a different example, which encompasses both a good and a bad approach from a published: the PC versions of Rovio's Angry Birds games.

Every copy of every such game ever bought or downloaded is the full version installer, with a short playable demo, and the rest locked behind an online activation code. You would get the code inside the case of your retail copy, or emailed to you after buying the game in the digital store.

Years ago, Rovio stopped selling the games, and did a curious thing - rigged the activation servers to simply accept any codes given to them - suddenly the full games became free, since you could find the installers on various websites, even after Rovio took them off their own. It was obvious, though, that at some point, the servers would be taken offline (and I made a point activating all my copies), which finally happened earlier this year.

So now - even if you have a legal retail copy with a code - you cannot activate it if you haven't done so yet. Well, no biggie - it probably took less than a week for someone to figure out how to crack the local activation check.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-04-16, 10:02:

MAZter wrote on 2024-04-15, 16:31:

This is why we prefer to collect physical game copies.

Unfortunately, that's not enough for certain games released in the late 2000s and early 2010s. Some of those have online authentication DRM, and the servers which used to facilitate that are no longer functional. Meaning, you can't legitimately play the physical copy of your game, and have to look for alternative workarounds.

Relevant video from Tech Tangents: Digital decay of 2000s PC game DRM.

great video btw and really explains how addictive online digital storefronts became at getting games really easy just point and click
expiration dates unless you keep paying to extend the expiration date

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2024-04-16, 10:15:

At this point, the Xbox Game Pass and alternatives economically look like a better option

well least they tell you upfront its a subscription like WoW where you pay to keep getting access

Command & Conquer 4 comes to my mind as the first example of this crap in games. I hated that game. It played crap, and it installed and ran even crappier. Back then I didn't have internet connection always available even. Since then, we've been going down non-stop as it seems.

wbahnassi wrote on 2024-04-16, 12:40:

Command & Conquer 4 comes to my mind as the first example of this crap in games. I hated that game. It played crap, and it installed and ran even crappier. Back then I didn't have internet connection always available even. Since then, we've been going down non-stop as it seems.

your not wrong, eventually only those with 99.9% uptime or live next to EA/Microsoft/Valve will always get server advantage, like in p2p games where one person is the listen server, and lag switches reigned

wbahnassi wrote on 2024-04-16, 12:40:

Command & Conquer 4 comes to my mind as the first example of this crap in games. I hated that game. It played crap, and it installed and ran even crappier. Back then I didn't have internet connection always available even. Since then, we've been going down non-stop as it seems.

retro is in style these days, i even put up windows 95 as a background image that was made to fit in 1920 by 1080

Ubi removed my rayman games from account tried contact them but they not help me..

Well, we do not own even our own lives. Life is also some kind of subscription. So...

Funny enough this month's project is finding cracked versions of my games less then 10 years old.

3 are physical media but where the game and DLC and require activation, The oldest been from 2012 and still activated last year but no guarantee for how long.
The final one is C&C Remastered on Steam, I've never liked Steam as even if the game works on an older OS, once the steam client drops support your forced to upgrade.

(I don't blame Steam for this, If MS is no longer supporting their OS then no reason for other companies should, it just doesn't match the way work)

Unknown_K wrote on 2024-04-16, 00:19:

Even games from GOG that you can download won't be playable forever since newer OS can break them and old hardware will die.

Any game big enough to have DRM will have a group crack it sooner or later.

somehow the prospect of eventual hardware, vm and OS problems disabling software doesn't seem as bad, its like accepting that something is finally giving way to age and nature rather than at the whim of a distant 'owner'

it seems unlikely in the decades ahead too (barring some global catastrophe) as some future hardware is likely to be powerful enough to emulate a PC of today with its OS allowing game to be run

ThinkpadIL wrote on 2024-04-16, 15:08:

Well, we do not own even our own lives. Life is also some kind of subscription. So...

i don't see a direct connection with copyright law and software distribution practices though! 😀

if it simply to say nothing lasts forever then sure, that is a truth but i think people are thinking near term

chinny22 wrote on 2024-04-16, 23:49:

Funny enough this month's project is finding cracked versions of my games less then 10 years old. […]
Show full quote

Funny enough this month's project is finding cracked versions of my games less then 10 years old.

3 are physical media but where the game and DLC and require activation, The oldest been from 2012 and still activated last year but no guarantee for how long.
The final one is C&C Remastered on Steam, I've never liked Steam as even if the game works on an older OS, once the steam client drops support your forced to upgrade.

(I don't blame Steam for this, If MS is no longer supporting their OS then no reason for other companies should, it just doesn't match the way work)

A while ago, I put together a massive personal spreadsheet of all the old games I'd like to get physical copies of, or GOG if that is impractical. It was pretty straight forward until around 2007. Then you start running into online activation servers, like with Bioshock, Spore or Dead Space. Thankfully, GOG actually surpasses the physical copies and sells version without these activations. But things continue to get worse.

Around 2009 you start seeing games that only exist on Steam and require Steam Activation, like Empire: Total War, Napoleon: Total War, Rage or Borderlands 2. Still, plenty of major releases still use disc based DRM, none at all, or have been re-released on GOG drm free.

After 2012 or so, the only DRM free games I could fine are small little indie games, mostly on GOG.

I mean, take 2020 for instance. Of the top ten games from metacritic, GOG doesn't have a single one of them available DRM free.

Namrok wrote on 2024-04-17, 14:55:

I mean, take 2020 for instance. Of the top ten games from metacritic, GOG doesn't have a single one of them available DRM free.

It's true that GOG doesn't have many top games from the recent years. However, there are a few exceptions.

For example, Control was a fairly popular 2019 title and it's currently discounted on GOG.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-04-17, 15:03:

Namrok wrote on 2024-04-17, 14:55:

I mean, take 2020 for instance. Of the top ten games from metacritic, GOG doesn't have a single one of them available DRM free.

It's true that GOG doesn't have many top games from the recent years. However, there are a few exceptions.

For example, Control was a fairly popular 2019 title and it's currently discounted on GOG.

Ok, let me drill down on this. Lets take the top 20 games off Metacritic, and see which ones are available DRM free.

1. Red Dead Redeption 2: All Steam or Rockstar online DRM
2. Disco Elysium: DRM free, also small and indie
3. Final Fantasy XIV: Shadowbringers: MMO expansion
4. Tetris Effect: Maybe DRM free on Epic, with the right command line parameters?
5. Resident Evil 2: All DRMed
6. Devil May Cry 5: All Steam DRMed
7. Slay the Spire: Generally DRM free, also small and indie
8. Asgard's Wrath: Oculus DRM
9. Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice: All Steam DRMed
10. Unity of Command II: All Steam DRMed, despite being small and indie
11. Apex Legends: Online only game
12. Baba is You: DRM free, also small and indie
13. F1 2019: All DRMed, mostly Steam, also Microsoft Store
14. Sunless Skies: DRM free on GOG
15. Valfaris: DRM free on GOG
16. Devotion: Uh, censored by the CCP? Available only from the developer website DRM free though.
17. The Sims 4: Realm of Magic: Expansion for a game that uses Origin DRM
18. Control: Seems GOG and Epic are DRM free?
19. Dragon Quest Builders 2: All DRMed
20. AMID EVIL: DRM free on GOG

So I took 20 games, 9 have DRM free version, Control I would consider a AAA major release, the rest little indie stuff. Among the top 10, that falls to 3 DRM free indie games though. It does not bode well for even a narrow majority of top contemporary games being playable in 10 years.

Like others have said, technically speaking, you never did really own the rights to any games, movies, shows, or other media you purchased in the past. Legally speaking, the mix tapes many of us used to make were, by the letter of the law, illegal. The thing is, none of that really mattered all that much to most people until DRM became a thing.

I fully understand DRM and why it exists, but I've never liked it. This is why any games or software that's important to me is backed up offline whenever possible. Still, that only works when games/software don't have some sort of online authentication. Then you have to go down some often sketchy rabbit holes in order to get them working.

This is also why I really only use Steam and GoG for many of my games these days, and use a lot of open source software. Valve may remove games from their storefront, but they will leave it in your library so you can install EOL games, unless they have no choice but to remove it.

In fact, if I recall correctly, Valve has it in their licensing agreement for sellers that the game files still be available even if the game is discontinued, though I know there are exceptions. I have several "dead" games in my list I can still install if I want. Steam is, by far, the largest online PC DRM and digital distro platform on the planet for games, but many publishers didn't like the fact Valve wanted that much control over their IP availability and that's one reason many of the big names created their own platforms and we now see a lot of "this game requires 3rd party DRM" as a warning on some games sold on Steam from those big names.

The only time I move outside of Steam is when I have no choice, and that's rare. Of course, I use GoG for digital copies of my classic games where I no longer own the physical media. They had me at "DRM FREE".

I miss the good old days. 😜

Namrok wrote on 2024-04-17, 15:22:

So I took 20 games, 9 have DRM free version, Control I would consider a AAA major release, the rest little indie stuff. Among the top 10, that falls to 3 DRM free indie games though. It does not bode well for even a narrow majority of top contemporary games being playable in 10 years.

You'll get no argument from me on that. I'm just saying that from time to time, even some AAA titles do make it to GOG in DRM-free form.

For example, Horizon: Zero Dawn and God of War 4 are both on GOG now.

chinny22 wrote on 2024-04-16, 23:49:

Funny enough this month's project is finding cracked versions of my games less then 10 years old.

ironically in the same process today, some game's "setup-extracting-setup" file ran a VB script that made a mess on my registry (disabling defender, uac, windows updates, etc...). Got the UAC to work, but the others aren't yet running due to registry changes. Fortunately, I tracked down whatever the VB changed in registry, but now I will need to find a copy of the original registry values there. (my fault was to download from a 3rd party site rather than a direct torrent of the repacker)

Steamworks is mostly a non-issue. There's also SteamStub but it seems very few games use it and, at least the older versions, could be removed with a tool.

I haven't really checked but apparently epic launcher can also be circumvented.

Practically the only non-online protection that is really a problem nowadays is denuvo.

Just ignore MS store. Does it even have any exclusive games worth getting.

Online games are an entirety different matter.

ThinkpadIL wrote on 2024-04-16, 15:08:

Well, we do not own even our own lives. Life is also some kind of subscription. So...

so true cannot even resell my soul to the devil

StriderTR wrote on 2024-04-17, 15:32:

Like others have said, technically speaking, you never did really own the rights to any games, movies, shows, or other media you […]
Show full quote

Like others have said, technically speaking, you never did really own the rights to any games, movies, shows, or other media you purchased in the past. Legally speaking, the mix tapes many of us used to make were, by the letter of the law, illegal. The thing is, none of that really mattered all that much to most people until DRM became a thing.

I fully understand DRM and why it exists, but I've never liked it. This is why any games or software that's important to me is backed up offline whenever possible. Still, that only works when games/software don't have some sort of online authentication. Then you have to go down some often sketchy rabbit holes in order to get them working.

This is also why I really only use Steam and GoG for many of my games these days, and use a lot of open source software. Valve may remove games from their storefront, but they will leave it in your library so you can install EOL games, unless they have no choice but to remove it.

In fact, if I recall correctly, Valve has it in their licensing agreement for sellers that the game files still be available even if the game is discontinued, though I know there are exceptions. I have several "dead" games in my list I can still install if I want. Steam is, by far, the largest online PC DRM and digital distro platform on the planet for games, but many publishers didn't like the fact Valve wanted that much control over their IP availability and that's one reason many of the big names created their own platforms and we now see a lot of "this game requires 3rd party DRM" as a warning on some games sold on Steam from those big names.

The only time I move outside of Steam is when I have no choice, and that's rare. Of course, I use GoG for digital copies of my classic games where I no longer own the physical media. They had me at "DRM FREE".

I miss the good old days. 😜

gog does at least get old games working on modern systems, and steam is just a distributor which they just download the files and you get the exe without i guess installing much