Ensign Nemo wrote on 2024-04-19, 00:34:

Interesting factoid - you can patent DNA sequences, but it can't be something that is found already in nature (-: […]
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twiz11 wrote on 2024-04-19, 00:16:

midicollector wrote on 2024-04-18, 05:01:

Physical copies of games will degrade over time too, so they’re not a much better alternative frankly. Even if they’re sitting on your hard drive or NAS, those could go bad and then they’re gone. I’m not against physical media here, just trying to show the realistic downsides from the perspective of a collector. Plus if you want to sell physical media it’s much more expensive and difficult to do so which adds its own problems and passes on higher costs to consumers, which ultimately leads to fewer people succeeding in the industry and lower profits.

The real problem is piracy which is much larger and more serious than it was when we were growing up, it can put an indie or a company out of business, so naturally they gravitate to online platforms that promise some minimum amount of defense. You’re talking about actual jobs at stake these days, it’s real money and real jobs that are affected.

Now if we could just invent a media that can’t be pirated, was physical, and lasted forever and also was free…

the see saw method, well what about using our own dna as a media that has games on it, you cant pirate it because its already on you, is totally physical, lasts forever as a stable chemical and is also free

Interesting factoid - you can patent DNA sequences, but it can't be something that is found already in nature (-:

https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/understandin … ed%20the%20gene.

How would you control for mutations? (-:

hmm maybe copyright your dna and compare mutations

Ensign Nemo wrote on 2024-04-19, 00:34:

Interesting factoid - you can patent DNA sequences, but it can't be something that is found already in nature (-: […]
Show full quote

twiz11 wrote on 2024-04-19, 00:16:

midicollector wrote on 2024-04-18, 05:01:

Physical copies of games will degrade over time too, so they’re not a much better alternative frankly. Even if they’re sitting on your hard drive or NAS, those could go bad and then they’re gone. I’m not against physical media here, just trying to show the realistic downsides from the perspective of a collector. Plus if you want to sell physical media it’s much more expensive and difficult to do so which adds its own problems and passes on higher costs to consumers, which ultimately leads to fewer people succeeding in the industry and lower profits.

The real problem is piracy which is much larger and more serious than it was when we were growing up, it can put an indie or a company out of business, so naturally they gravitate to online platforms that promise some minimum amount of defense. You’re talking about actual jobs at stake these days, it’s real money and real jobs that are affected.

Now if we could just invent a media that can’t be pirated, was physical, and lasted forever and also was free…

the see saw method, well what about using our own dna as a media that has games on it, you cant pirate it because its already on you, is totally physical, lasts forever as a stable chemical and is also free

Interesting factoid - you can patent DNA sequences, but it can't be something that is found already in nature (-:

https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/understandin … ed%20the%20gene.

How would you control for mutations? (-:

i just thought up stupidly of using the gnu gpl making free and libre dna, everyone has a copy of your dna so if anyone attempts to alter it everyone else has a copy so they can see if its been doctored

twiz11 wrote on 2024-04-19, 00:39:

Ensign Nemo wrote on 2024-04-19, 00:34:

Interesting factoid - you can patent DNA sequences, but it can't be something that is found already in nature (-: […]
Show full quote

twiz11 wrote on 2024-04-19, 00:16:

the see saw method, well what about using our own dna as a media that has games on it, you cant pirate it because its already on you, is totally physical, lasts forever as a stable chemical and is also free

Interesting factoid - you can patent DNA sequences, but it can't be something that is found already in nature (-:

https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/understandin … ed%20the%20gene.

How would you control for mutations? (-:

hmm maybe copyright your dna and compare mutations

Well, the current human reference genome is under 1GB when compressed, so you should be able to store yours for around the same amount. Should work for a few old games, but we don't have enough DNA to store the bloat of a modern AAA game.

Ensign Nemo wrote on 2024-04-19, 04:12:

Well, the current human reference genome is under 1GB when compressed, so you should be able to store yours for around the same amount. Should work for a few old games, but we don't have enough DNA to store the bloat of a modern AAA game.

i guess that could be because dna is an instruction set of sorts, kind of procedural - like that game kkrieger while the entire map of exactly where each molecule is in a human would take many TB of data, comparable to a AAA game

i wonder if, when we have procedural/ai generative games the content of which is not decided or controlled by the 'vendor' if they can actually claim any content in the game once its being played (not that it makes any difference to 'owning' it as a player...)

gerry wrote on 2024-04-19, 08:25:

Ensign Nemo wrote on 2024-04-19, 04:12:

Well, the current human reference genome is under 1GB when compressed, so you should be able to store yours for around the same amount. Should work for a few old games, but we don't have enough DNA to store the bloat of a modern AAA game.

i guess that could be because dna is an instruction set of sorts, kind of procedural - like that game kkrieger while the entire map of exactly where each molecule is in a human would take many TB of data, comparable to a AAA game

i wonder if, when we have procedural/ai generative games the content of which is not decided or controlled by the 'vendor' if they can actually claim any content in the game once its being played (not that it makes any difference to 'owning' it as a player...)

It's even more remarkable when you consider that a substantial proportion of our DNA is junk that doesn't do anything.

BTW - I'm sure many people have seen the opposite in press releases, but there's considerable evidence supporting junk DNA. I won't go too off topic and go into that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLOOmP6Q6Zk

They Are Destroying Your Games - Don't Let Them

why do i get the feeling emulators and VMs killed modern gaming?
Dosbox/Virtualbox means never having to say goodbye to old classics like doom.

you also have free software like FreeOrion crude but it works and/or you can make it work on modern systems or just run it in a VM

The truth is that we are a message, traveling through the universe. The message is contained in our DNA and will only be readable at the time it is delivered. This is why the grays are probing peoples butts, to try and decypher the encryption en-route. So just remember if you are ever feeling down, or small and insignificant, the most important secret in the universe is contained in your rectum.

Shagittarius wrote on 2024-04-19, 15:07:

The truth is that we are a message, traveling through the universe. The message is contained in our DNA and will only be readable at the time it is delivered. This is why the grays are probing peoples butts, to try and decypher the encryption en-route. So just remember if you are ever feeling down, or small and insignificant, the most important secret in the universe is contained in your rectum.

Pfft, totally wrong. The grays are actually looking out for us by screening us for colon cancer.

Ensign Nemo wrote on 2024-04-19, 17:45:

Shagittarius wrote on 2024-04-19, 15:07:

The truth is that we are a message, traveling through the universe. The message is contained in our DNA and will only be readable at the time it is delivered. This is why the grays are probing peoples butts, to try and decypher the encryption en-route. So just remember if you are ever feeling down, or small and insignificant, the most important secret in the universe is contained in your rectum.

Pfft, totally wrong. The grays are actually looking out for us by screening us for colon cancer.

You work for them don't you!

Shagittarius wrote on 2024-04-19, 18:55:

Ensign Nemo wrote on 2024-04-19, 17:45:

Shagittarius wrote on 2024-04-19, 15:07:

The truth is that we are a message, traveling through the universe. The message is contained in our DNA and will only be readable at the time it is delivered. This is why the grays are probing peoples butts, to try and decypher the encryption en-route. So just remember if you are ever feeling down, or small and insignificant, the most important secret in the universe is contained in your rectum.

Pfft, totally wrong. The grays are actually looking out for us by screening us for colon cancer.

You work for them don't you!

Why do you ask? Would you like to be added to the waiting list? (-:

Shagittarius wrote on 2024-04-19, 15:07:

The truth is that we are a message, traveling through the universe. The message is contained in our DNA and will only be readable at the time it is delivered. This is why the grays are probing peoples butts, to try and decypher the encryption en-route. So just remember if you are ever feeling down, or small and insignificant, the most important secret in the universe is contained in your rectum.

I bet it's spam. Joke's gonna be on them in an eon or two, when their pan-galactic quantum hypercomputer finally decodes it all, and the teletype spews out "HOT SINGLES IN YOUR AREA"

VileR wrote on 2024-04-20, 21:56:

Shagittarius wrote on 2024-04-19, 15:07:

The truth is that we are a message, traveling through the universe. The message is contained in our DNA and will only be readable at the time it is delivered. This is why the grays are probing peoples butts, to try and decypher the encryption en-route. So just remember if you are ever feeling down, or small and insignificant, the most important secret in the universe is contained in your rectum.

I bet it's spam. Joke's gonna be on them in an eon or two, when their pan-galactic quantum hypercomputer finally decodes it all, and the teletype spews out "HOT SINGLES IN YOUR AREA"

I like to imagine the Grays gathered around a teletype expectantly.

Shagittarius wrote on 2024-04-20, 23:21:

VileR wrote on 2024-04-20, 21:56:

Shagittarius wrote on 2024-04-19, 15:07:

The truth is that we are a message, traveling through the universe. The message is contained in our DNA and will only be readable at the time it is delivered. This is why the grays are probing peoples butts, to try and decypher the encryption en-route. So just remember if you are ever feeling down, or small and insignificant, the most important secret in the universe is contained in your rectum.

I bet it's spam. Joke's gonna be on them in an eon or two, when their pan-galactic quantum hypercomputer finally decodes it all, and the teletype spews out "HOT SINGLES IN YOUR AREA"

I like to imagine the Grays gathered around a teletype expectantly.

people would throw themselves at grays for interstellar travel to other worlds if it meant not seeing their neighbors again

twiz11 wrote on 2024-04-21, 21:47:

Shagittarius wrote on 2024-04-20, 23:21:

VileR wrote on 2024-04-20, 21:56:

I bet it's spam. Joke's gonna be on them in an eon or two, when their pan-galactic quantum hypercomputer finally decodes it all, and the teletype spews out "HOT SINGLES IN YOUR AREA"

I like to imagine the Grays gathered around a teletype expectantly.

people would throw themselves at grays for interstellar travel to other worlds if it meant not seeing their neighbors again

Hell is other people.

Shagittarius wrote on 2024-04-21, 21:50:

twiz11 wrote on 2024-04-21, 21:47:

Shagittarius wrote on 2024-04-20, 23:21:

I like to imagine the Grays gathered around a teletype expectantly.

people would throw themselves at grays for interstellar travel to other worlds if it meant not seeing their neighbors again

Hell is other people.

hell-o wait why do we say hello then i mean you cant say hello without hell...? hi

RandomStranger wrote on 2024-04-13, 21:27:

Nothing new there. I don't even consider game libraries on online contend delivery platforms a collection. And Ubisoft have been on my black list since about 2014 (2 years after I blacklisted EA) for being anti-consumer.

If they had a shred of decency they'd made an offline update and left the game to those who had it, but Ubisoft haven't been known for having a spine for a very long time.

eh some games are meant to die just like us

dr_st wrote on 2024-04-16, 11:30:

I am as big an opponent of online DRM as anyone - I only buy my digital games from GOG - but The Crew is a rather poor example, […]
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I am as big an opponent of online DRM as anyone - I only buy my digital games from GOG - but The Crew is a rather poor example, almost clickbait-grade in my opinion.

Let's see. An online-only game, with no single-player content at all (per my understanding), which was from the day of its release tied to the servers of the publisher. What exactly did you expect?

That the publisher shall be legally obligated to keep the gaming servers online until the heat death of the universe?
That the publisher, before unplugging the servers, shall be legally obligated to add single-player content to the game and release it for free? Or perhaps add a LAN mode? Release the game's source so that someone else can hack it and run their own third party software?

You probably didn't expect any of that. The game already became useless with the shutdown of the servers 2 weeks ago. Yes, removing it from the accounts may seem like a unilateral license revocation, which is what got people pissed. I suppose Ubisoft did it to cut down on tech support calls from people trying to launch the game and getting an error.

To be fair, the developer/publisher could have made the whole game open source -- all data, server and client code included. So that the fans will be able to do whatever they want with it. If a game has garnered a decent fanbase and the developer respects that, I suppose this would be the right thing to do. However, if the whole planned obsolescence thing is about selling products that eventually fail so that you can sell the audience another product, then of course such a developer or publisher is not morally obligated to do anything,

All the DRM stuff aside, releasing source code or assets is not that simple. Especially with bigger companies, they often use middleware or licensed assets for which they do not have the right to publish it outside of what contractually has been agreed on. For example, id Software had to change some stuff before releasing Doom 3 source code due to use of licensed technology. So even if you want to release something, your third-party licenses might prohibit doing so.

Of course, with the introduction of DRM/digital distribution the idea of "licensing a game to play" became quite popular amongst publishers. The second hand market has always been a source of controversy, for example. Remember the outcry when Microsoft announced that they basically wanted to ban second-hand games for Xbox One? With DRM/digital distribution this is not a problem anymore, because you generally cannot transfer ownership. I don't like this development either but I don't think we will ever go back to how it was before. Especially since publishers are going crazy on live service games now.

technokater wrote on 2024-04-27, 22:25:

All the DRM stuff aside, releasing source code or assets is not that simple. Especially with bigger companies, they often use middleware or licensed assets for which they do not have the right to publish it outside of what contractually has been agreed on. For example, id Software had to change some stuff before releasing Doom 3 source code due to use of licensed technology. So even if you want to release something, your third-party licenses might prohibit doing so.

Of course, with the introduction of DRM/digital distribution the idea of "licensing a game to play" became quite popular amongst publishers. The second hand market has always been a source of controversy, for example. Remember the outcry when Microsoft announced that they basically wanted to ban second-hand games for Xbox One? With DRM/digital distribution this is not a problem anymore, because you generally cannot transfer ownership. I don't like this development either but I don't think we will ever go back to how it was before. Especially since publishers are going crazy on live service games now.

Yeah that's what they call surface games now or service games you know where you pay subscription and you get a new game every month and it's not something that you stick with forever or indefinite or perpetual they just give you a game take it away give you a new one it's like renting or leasing games like Netflix or or that Redbox thing what what game GameFly or or I forgot where you could rent games in the mail I guess

Ironically sega's name was originally called service games because they worked on slot machines and stuff that would always bring in a constant supply of revenue at say poker or casinos

MrFlibble wrote on 2024-04-27, 19:55:

To be fair, the developer/publisher could have made the whole game open source -- all data, server and client code included. So that the fans will be able to do whatever they want with it.

They could, but I can see a whole range of reasons why they wouldn't want to do that, even without considering them greedy bastards who hate their fans. Some of the complexities were outlined by technokater in the post above. You might want to do something nice to the fans, and then realize that to avoid putting yourself in legal jeopardy, you have to jump through tons of hoops, spend time and money on getting all your intermediate licenses in order, and/or cutting out content from the release - and all this for something that will not make you any money at all.

MrFlibble wrote on 2024-04-27, 19:55:

However, if the whole planned obsolescence thing is about selling products that eventually fail so that you can sell the audience another product, then of course such a developer or publisher is not morally obligated to do anything,

It's not "planned obsolescence" when you release a game, for which you charge once, and then support it with a server infrastructure, and I assume some new content every once in a while, for 10 years. I can imagine that when at some point the cost of support becomes substantially higher than the cash influx from new buyers, the decision to terminate the service appears reasonable.