Speaking of Mass Effect, I just love to listen to the Galaxy Map / Uncharted Worlds track : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWfOufGsah0 - preferably with a good bass headphones...

d1stortion wrote:

I was looking at something like the MA-7A or MA-15D. If I look around a bit more it seems like they have surprisingly medicore ratings...

I don't mean to be offensive, but I'd agree with "mediocre" based on the information that Roland provides; they also appear to be discontinued. I'd say the MA-15 look like the better of the two, but their strongest point is that they accept digital in (and that isn't, by itself, a deal-breaker imho). My biggest gripes are the very-small woofers and poor bass extension specs (the MA-15 claim 70Hz, which we should assume is at best an F3; that's no good by itself).

If you want some quality, small-size, active monitors take a look at Genelec (and assume that a subwoofer is a given). If that's not a suitable option (they can be kind of *ahem* expensive), I'd look for a good quality 2.1 multimedia set - something that unfortunately seems to be rare as hen's teeth these days, since the recent "audiophile phenomenon" and everyone started talking about "active monitors" for desktop use (because obviously anything below 100Hz suddenly doesn't matter in this age of higher fidelity? 🤣). If you don't mind digging around for used parts, look up Monsoon Multimedia and their 2.1 (and 4.1/5.1) systems; Altec Lansing, Harman/Kardon, Bose (believe it or not), and Creative/Cambridge all also made good 2.1 systems years ago. (And if you're wondering "why no mention of Klipsch?" - I actually have a pair of ProMedia 2.1s and they've been fine for almost a decade (and they sound pretty good), and I'm the only person I know that's been that lucky - most folks seem to have a lot of problems with their plate amplifier, so I tend to avoid them when possible).

Malik:

Arrghh that's a good track. However it feels so "wrong" listening to all 3:22 of it without the characteristic GONG of clicking on something, or (to bring us into ME2) "Probe Launched" or any of the other EDI-related prompts...

I really dig the main theme too (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVm_ljDSdwA), and recently have been listening to Faunts -M4 Part II almost constantly (I got one of those $1 MP3 credits from Amazon and that's what I bought with it 🤣).

Personally I found my ATs to be the most enjoyable for ME1-3 from a sonic perspective - they get the soundtrack across just right, but also get all of the game's audio positioned smoothly. I think the first game has the best soundtrack overall though - Hitman 2: Silent Assassin aside, there's not another game I like better in terms of how it greets you with audio (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuXOr1CcZsk), and how it uses music to set-up so much of the story as well as establish an overall mood for the game. The other two games make good use of music in many situations, but it seems to be more of an after-thought/add-on to the game, than something that centers the entire experience from starting it up for the first time at the menu all the way through the end of the credit roll.

Found this hour-long beauty too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOoRrl8dFZg

I think I might just have to own this on CD...

obobskivich wrote:

Kreshna Aryauguna Nurzaman:

I like the music from the first Mass Effect quite a lot (okay so it isn't an old game by any means, but still), as well as the first Halo. The Hitman games tend to have very good audio as well.

Star Control II also shines on my JBL 120Tis. Most of the SC II songs are bass-heavy, but the Vux theme song sounds great with the titanium dome tweeters. 😀

The only thing that sound bad on my speakers are MIDI or FM synth songs. When I played Origin's Pacific Strike, the midranges sound clipped and ugly, especially the brass section. And I already use sound font, and I put the sound font volume at moderate level. Yet they still clip. Gah.

FM songs are another story. Yes, FM synthesizer tends to sound dry and sterile, but at least el-cheapo multimedia speakers still manage to mask the dryness at the expense of accuracy. Here, my speakers are transparent that they reveal the dryness mercilessly (the same reason I don't watch my bootlegged Saint Seiya anymore, because the sound mastering is quite crap and my loudspeakers reveal it honestly).

I've already bought a tube preamp on ebay, wonder if it could tame the sterile sound of FM synth. 😀

I have the Promedia 2.1 myself actually. It's incredible that they are still making them after over a decade, with only minor changes! I use them for my consoles. Good speakers, but to get a balanced sound I find that the subwoofer has to be set to almost minimum, otherwise the bass is way too booming. I'm not an expert by any means but I believe this is an issue that 2.1 PC sets generally have... it makes sense if you look at the size of the subwoofer in comparison to the satellites.

As for the Roland speakers, if anything I was looking at them because of the novelty factor of using Roland speakers with a Sound Canvas... 🤣 I guess if the specs already hint at them being no good I won't bother with them, and they don't go for cheap either.

d1stortion wrote:

As for the Roland speakers, if anything I was looking at them because of the novelty factor of using Roland speakers with a Sound Canvas... 🤣 I guess if the specs already hint at them being no good I won't bother with them, and they don't go for cheap either.

Makes me wonder: what are the novelty speakers for Yamaha XG users? Or how about using this with Roland?

d1stortion wrote:

I have the Promedia 2.1 myself actually. It's incredible that they are still making them after over a decade, with only minor changes! I use them for my consoles. Good speakers, but to get a balanced sound I find that the subwoofer has to be set to almost minimum, otherwise the bass is way too booming. I'm not an expert by any means but I believe this is an issue that 2.1 PC sets generally have... it makes sense if you look at the size of the subwoofer in comparison to the satellites.

As for the Roland speakers, if anything I was looking at them because of the novelty factor of using Roland speakers with a Sound Canvas... 🤣 I guess if the specs already hint at them being no good I won't bother with them, and they don't go for cheap either.

2.1 doesn't have to mean boomy bass - that's just how Klipsch ends up sounding in most settings because the ProMedia (Quintet) satellites are so gutless and bright (thanks to those horns!) especially relative to that sub box. That, and they're tuned to be boom-boom because that's what sells. The 2.1 sets from H/K, Altec, Monsoon, and (again believe it or not) Bose can be setup to sound much more natural (placement of the subwoofer relative to the room, as with any system with a sub, is kind of a big deal - and 2.1 systems usually don't give you as much flexibility as an HT where the sub is its on its own cable (or wireless) and can be dropped wherever it sounds best with relative ease). Cambridge/Creative and Logitech it's more hit and miss - Logitech used to make some decent 2.1 stuff years ago, but the newer stuff tends to be boom-boom, just like the later-era Creative stuff. Bass sells, unfortunately.

I'm not saying 2.1 multimedia systems were ever a benchmark for hi-fi, but for a little while there in the late 1990s into the early 2000s they provided a good blend of sound quality and ergonomics/features for use with desktop computers (and more importantly, most of them were VERY affordable for the SQ they offered). Shame that it ended, but what are you gonna do? 😢

OFC non-multimedia 2.1 systems are another story entirely - some of those can be absolutely world-class hi-fi with relatively compact speakers and competent subwoofers to round them out. Placement/configuration of such systems is usually a bit more touchy than traditional full-range stereo speakers, but the end result can be just as good.

Anyway, lately I played the first Command & Conquer (Tiberian Dawn) again, with the JBL 120Tis of course. I have tried Command & Conquer with both multimedia speakers and stereo shelf systems - Sony and Aiwa and the likes. The shelf systems produced boomy bass - as typically they are, and I felt they were good enough for Command & Conquer. Of course, it was mid 1990s, and I didn't knew better at that time.

Now I decided to play it again on real hi-fi speakers - the JBL 120Tis, that is. Sound effects don't improve much - I suspect the sample rate isn't very good to begin with. But the music... wow!

One may think the 12" woofers would produce boomy bass - not at all! In fact, the music sounds "flatter", but flat is good; it means flatter frequency response and more faithful reproduction of Frank Klepacki's works. Demolition is my most favorite (note that the actual in-game music sounds better than the youtube music); the bass didn't go boomier, but it goes deeper. Small details are revealed, including the occasional cymbals (alright, cymbal samples) and the stereo imaging of the bass guitar after the minute 1.00.

Is the original C&C a Frank Klepacki score? I know he did the later games, and yes the music is quite good indeed! I remember buying the "box set" for Red Alert and getting the soundtrack on a separate CD - honestly I couldn't tell you where the original game CDs are (C&C:X was a very nice/welcome replacement to whatever half a dozen discs), but I still listen to the music CD. He's a good musician in his own right - the fact that it's worked into a game is just a bonus.

Yes, original C&C soundtrack was scored by Klepacki.

obobskivich wrote:

Is the original C&C a Frank Klepacki score? I know he did the later games, and yes the music is quite good indeed! I remember buying the "box set" for Red Alert and getting the soundtrack on a separate CD - honestly I couldn't tell you where the original game CDs are (C&C:X was a very nice/welcome replacement to whatever half a dozen discs), but I still listen to the music CD. He's a good musician in his own right - the fact that it's worked into a game is just a bonus.

bristlehog wrote:

Yes, original C&C soundtrack was scored by Klepacki.

Indeed, Klepacki is a great musician. I mean, it's "only" game soundtrack, but he composed the music with such details, despite most gamers would hear them through el-cheapo multimedia speakers while ignoring the musical details. After listening to his works using real speakers, then I appreciate him even more.

Many DJs/producers like Armin van Buuren also compose their music with such details, despite their audience would be too busy dancing and partying without paying attention to such subtlety.

My Headphones:

1. Teufel Aureol Real (i got them for free when i bought a Teufel Cubycon 2 5.1 cinema speaker set)
I like them but i prefere my other two over them. Also they got detachable cables that's quiet neat.
2. Philips SHP8900 My 2nd choice also with detachable cables.
3. Sennheiser PC360 my personal number one only flaw the cable is not detachable.

For my retro machine sound i got a pair of Teufel Concept B 20 Mk2 with a Class D amp but they sound really good imo.
Else i got a Logitech 2.1 system on my laptop and 5.1 on my gaming PC.

01_Large_Reveal_40_Watt_Speakers.jpg :

* Large Reveal 40-Watt Speakers *

One of my two sets (I use two sets with my current rig's SBLive) of (almost) TWENTY YEAR OLD Reveal brand powered computer speakers (40-Watts RMS per channel, 4-Ohm), and a BIG problem with the right channel of the built-in amplifier...

Several hours later (WITHOUT the schematic in the pic collage that I just found on the Internet to go by!) and a replacement 2.2uF 50v electrolytic capacitor (a same valued one swiped off of an old Sound Blaster 16 that I had laying around), and I'm ROCKIN' AGAIN! 😀

...AND I HAD YET ANOTHER PROBLEM <AARRGGHH!>:

I ALSO had to re-solder (in 2 places) the tiny little braided wire on the speaker itself that connects to the input lug, and then passes THROUGH the speaker cone to the voice coil. And NOW, I'm DEFINITELY and PERMANENTLY ROCKIN' AGAIN! 😀

P.S. The slightly older set of the two sets is what I used for well over a decade and a half on my old 486DX4-100 -> http://jasonwilliams400com.startlogic.com/sno … _486DX4-100.htm , and is what all of ¥Weeds¥ Music Compositions® have been heard through when they were dreamed-up and born... as well as the addition of the second set for any of my newer compositions on my current rig 😀

(EDIT) P.P.S. Click on the "01_Large_Reveal_40_Watt_Speakers.jpg" link below to see that pic collage... I dunno why the forum software didn't place that one in "viewable format" (?).

02_Creative_Labs_Telex_M_40_Desktop_Microphone.jpg :

* Creative Labs Desktop Microphone Model Telex M-40 *

A pic of my old Creative Labs desktop microphone (Model: Telex M-40) that came free with the very first Sound Blaster 16 that I bought back in 1994-1995 😀 I STILL use this microphone EVEN today for ALL voice and Steam games chatting, and IMHO it's the best darned free microphone that money can buy! 😀

03_Small_Reveal_10_Watt_Speakers.jpg :

* Small Reveal 10-Watt Speakers *

A set of (almost) TWENTY YEAR OLD Reveal brand powered computer speakers (10-Watts RMS per channel, 4-Ohm), the smaller versions of the larger Reveal speakers, and they STILL work and sound great 😀 I use them as a backup test set when working on other PCs.

rfnagel: I think only two of your pictures are properly showing for me; not sure if others are having that problem. Interesting post nonetheless (it's always nice to see old gear kept alive instead of trashed). Also cool to see/hear about 4.0/quad systems in action - personally that's my preference for surround sound, as I find center channels can both be awkward to place (especially with multiple monitors), and in some cases they do more "harm" than "good" (e.g. everything just ends up playing on the center channel and not the L/R speakers). Phantom center pretty much solves those complaints, and I've never noticed much of a "gain" from having a bazillion surround speakers (I've had two differently mapped 7.1 systems and a 6.1 system over the years, and honestly none of them ever did anything that I can't get from quad or good stereo). Out of curiosity, how do you address the volume control with two sets of active speakers?

Solarstorm: Kind of unexpected that those Sennheisers don't have a removable cable - I thought all of their headphones did.

More broadly: I finally remembered the name of that add-it-yourself boom mic, this guy: http://www.modmic.com/ Personally I just have too many pairs of headphones to make it practical (and on many of them, I don't want to apply anything adhesive). Curious if anyone here has ever tried one out though.

On the note of complex music - I'd agree about AVB. 😀 I can't think of anything that's wholly similar - maybe Moby, Daft Punk, or BT, but that's about it. 😊

Had a pair of "Trust Soundwave 20" - same as those Small Reveals

I think there was actually a pretty good name behind those rebrands, and they punched well above their size - not trying to deliver what they could not, but doing mighty fine with what they could.

Still boxed up and buried away somewhere, after switching to a 5.1 set.

For another machine, to test, I picked up a pair of Goodmans Active 25's from a charity shop, and never mind being good for a test, those are also awesome for small speakers

Malik wrote:

Speaking of Mass Effect, I just love to listen to the Galaxy Map / Uncharted Worlds track : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWfOufGsah0 - preferably with a good bass headphones...

If you like it, there is plenty of music that sounds just like it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_School_of … lectronic_music

There is a local college radio station that plays the stuff Friday nights. A refreshing change to the noise on the other parts of the dial.

rfnagel wrote:

* Small Reveal 10-Watt Speakers *

A set of (almost) TWENTY YEAR OLD Reveal brand powered computer speakers (10-Watts RMS per channel, 4-Ohm), the smaller versions of the larger Reveal speakers, and they STILL work and sound great 😀 I use them as a backup test set when working on other PCs.

!!!

My younger brother has these with his current PC, he previously used them on his Compaq desktop, and on his Packard Bell before that. Pretty sure they came from the old family 386/486 generic desktop. Never really thought about it, but they're surely about that old. I think they were part of some Reveal CD-ROM Multimedia Kit upgrade bundle.

obobskivich wrote:

rfnagel: I think only two of your pictures are properly showing for me; not sure if others are having that problem.

Hmmmm... that's a weird one (?). Can you see the pic if you click on the "01_Large_Reveal_40_Watt_Speakers.jpg" link in my previous post ( download/file.php?id=14804 )? If not, and if you're on Facebook, try here for that same pic -> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202 … =3&l=f749499a94 (one of the bottom pic in this mess of a FB pic album -> https://www.facebook.com/RFNagel/media_set?se … =1&l=f749499a94 ) 😀

obobskivich wrote:

Interesting post nonetheless (it's always nice to see old gear kept alive instead of trashed).

Not only kept alive, but in damned good sounding condition as well 😀 I remember back when I bought them eons ago... 'best bang for the buck' IM(NotSo)HO 😀

@All: (P.S. See my next message post below)

obobskivich wrote:

Also cool to see/hear about 4.0/quad systems in action

I couldn't LIVE without 4-channel surround in any of the semi-modern games that support it that I play 😀

Which is one of the HUGE REASONS that I'm STILL running the older 2009 versions of Counter-Strike, Counter-Strike: Condition Zero, Counter-Strike: Condition Zero Deleted Scenes, and Day of Defeat...

Valve/Steam(ing-Pile-of-$%^&) decided in their infinite "wisdom" to REMOVE EAX/A3D support when they TOTALLY SCREWED up all of these games early last year <aarrgghh>! :SLAP:

obobskivich wrote:

Out of curiosity, how do you address the volume control with two sets of active speakers?

Hehe, simply by adjusting the volume knob on each of the two sets' right speaker (that houses the amp for each set) 😀

Basically, several years ago, I tweaked each of the sets' volume knobs to get a satisfactory front/rear balance, and then simply use the WinDoZe mixer for overall volume.

My SBLive's mixer also includes a 4-channel balance slider type of thing, but I usually leave that at dead-center.

Stiletto wrote:

My younger brother has these with his current PC, he previously used them on his Compaq desktop, and on his Packard Bell before that. Pretty sure they came from the old family 386/486 generic desktop. Never really thought about it, but they're surely about that old. I think they were part of some Reveal CD-ROM Multimedia Kit upgrade bundle.

Heh, I first got my little Reveal speakers back in my 286 days. Like I replied above, 'best bang for the buck'... that is, until I discovered the larger ones a few years later 😀

Hehe, attached is a pic of the little ones, and the FIRST set of the bigger ones when I bought them, hooked up to my old 486 back when I lived in Miami 😀

rfnagel wrote:

* Large Reveal 40-Watt Speakers *

---snip---

I ALSO had to re-solder (in 2 places) the tiny little braided wire on the speaker itself that connects to the input lug, and then passes THROUGH the speaker cone to the voice coil.

DOGGONE IT! The braided wire that I previously repaired was too degraded to hold. I spent almost TWO HOURS doing the repair AGAIN in the attached pic (having to completely replace the wire)!

The pic is a bit zoomed... i.e. it's a MUCH SMALLER space than how it appears in the pic, and I had a HELLUVA time getting my soldering iron in there to do the repair without burning up the cone. And yes... although it doesn't appear like it in the pic, that wire is fairly small, and QUITE flexible 😀

ANYHOW, a complete success... and it's working and sounding GREAT now (YET AGAIN <grin>) 😀

rfnagel wrote:

Hmmmm... that's a weird one (?). Can you see the pic if you click on the "01_Large_Reveal_40_Watt_Speakers.jpg" link in my previ […]
Show full quote

obobskivich wrote:

rfnagel: I think only two of your pictures are properly showing for me; not sure if others are having that problem.

Hmmmm... that's a weird one (?). Can you see the pic if you click on the "01_Large_Reveal_40_Watt_Speakers.jpg" link in my previous post ( download/file.php?id=14804 )? If not, and if you're on Facebook, try here for that same pic -> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202 … =3&l=f749499a94 (one of the bottom pic in this mess of a FB pic album -> https://www.facebook.com/RFNagel/media_set?se … =1&l=f749499a94 ) 😀

Not only kept alive, but in damned good sounding condition as well 😀 I remember back when I bought them eons ago... 'best bang for the buck' IM(NotSo)HO 😀

@All: (P.S. See my next message post below)

Yes it worked after you edited. 😀

I remember that "style" of speakers well, but never owned a pair myself.

I couldn't LIVE without 4-channel surround in any of the semi-modern games that support it that I play 😀

Which is one of the HUGE REASONS that I'm STILL running the older 2009 versions of Counter-Strike, Counter-Strike: Condition Zero, Counter-Strike: Condition Zero Deleted Scenes, and Day of Defeat...

Valve/Steam(ing-Pile-of-$%^&) decided in their infinite "wisdom" to REMOVE EAX/A3D support when they TOTALLY SCREWED up all of these games early last year <aarrgghh>! :SLAP:

EAX/A3D isn't a Valve/Steam problem - it's a Microsoft thing. When Vista came out, Microsoft eliminated DirectSound 3D HW with the transition to UAA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectSound#Wind … sta.2FWindows_7), which is what EAX/A3D/etc requires to work. Creative has released emulation software called ALchemy that runs on OpenAL, afaik it should work with Live!. There's other similar software for C-Media (which should cover Asus), and Realtek (most integrated audio) as well. I've tried ALchemy on a few titles, and it does work, but in some cases can introduce the same instability/bugginess that EAX could (depends on the game - for example I've always found Hitman 4 to become less stable running EAX, and ALchemy does the same thing for it). If you're still using Windows 2000/XP you likely will still "feel" the depreciation, as modern games aren't built with EAX due to the lack of support beyond Windows XP. Older games will/should still enable EAX just fine though.

As far as 4.0 in games that don't overtly list it as an option - you should be able to set 4.0 in the soundcard/Windows settings and then let the game run in whatever its surround sound mode is, and have it downmixed to 4.0. I know this work for headphones (the newer Creative cards, and I think Asus as well, will "fake" being 5.1/7.1 to the game, so the game believes its outputting 5.1, and then they downmix it to stereo for headphones - works very well!). Alternately, an external Dolby Digital decoder can do a 5.1->4.0 transform, if you can get the output in Dolby Digital (I forget if Live! can do this - I know Creative released Dolby Digital Live as a (paid - Dolby's requirement, not Creative's) software upgrade for a lot of their older cards a few years back). DTS decoders won't necessarily do that - some of the older ones won't downmix, they'll just drop the channels, but newer ones shouldn't have a problem taking 5.1->4.0 (to get DTS from your PC you would need "DTS Connect" which is a bit more obtuse than Dolby Digital Live).

Hehe, simply by adjusting the volume knob on each of the two sets' right speaker (that houses the amp for each set) 😀

Basically, several years ago, I tweaked each of the sets' volume knobs to get a satisfactory front/rear balance, and then simply use the WinDoZe mixer for overall volume.

My SBLive's mixer also includes a 4-channel balance slider type of thing, but I usually leave that at dead-center.

Gotcha. So I'm guessing that both "right" speakers are your front L/R?

obobskivich wrote:

Yes it worked after you edited. 😀 I remember that "style" of speakers well, but never owned a pair myself.

Glad you can see the pic now 😀 Yeah, those speakers really sound quite impressive for the price that I paid for them back then... although I really don't remember now the exact amount that they retailed for. All I know is, being a relatively poor-man, I was looking for the best bang for my buck, and those speakers sure did deliver 😀

obobskivich wrote:

EAX/A3D isn't a Valve/Steam problem - it's a Microsoft thing. When Vista came out, Microsoft eliminated DirectSound 3D HW with the transition to UAA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectSound#Wind … sta.2FWindows_7), which is what EAX/A3D/etc requires to work.

Thanks for the detailed explaination for that 😀 Yeah, I was already semi-familiar with that, but the thing is; Valve totally removed the options for EAX in the sound options menu with their early-last-year updates to all of the GoldSource games, and I have an SBLive running under Windows XP. So there wouldn't really be any choice/option for me to re-enable 4-channel sound (as I'm assuming that Creative Alchemy doesn't run under Windows XP).

Also, even with Alchemy; from what I understand Valve also totally removed the (existing) 4-channel positional sound information from the code and GoldSource engine, so how would Alchemy be able to translate/decode sound coming positionally from your front or rear without this special positional data that the previous versions of the GoldSource games (internally) provided?

P.S. Of course, the stereo 2-channel positional sound data is still in these games.

obobskivich wrote:

Gotcha. So I'm guessing that both "right" speakers are your front L/R?

No. On my current rig I have one set of them as my front left and right. And the second set setup for my rear left and right. Of course though, the two rear speakers/set is sitting behind me in reverse... The actual stereo "hardwired" right speaker of the set (which is the one that houses the amp and volume/tone knobs) is actually sitting to my rear-left (while for the front set, the "hardwired" right speaker is indeed on the right).

So, like this, I can simply adjust the front set's volume knob, and then the rear set's volume knob, in order to get a proper front/rear volume mix.