ElectricMonk wrote:

Dominus wrote:

Yes, technically it's all warez, but when you have no legal option of purchasing some of those games, you have to resort to other measures.

First of, you never *have* to. No one forces you to break the law. You are NOT entitled to play any game you want to.

As I wrote, morally I'm fine with abandonware, while I have to accept legally it's not ok. (though the above expression of entitlement makes the law more moral again)

So even when I purchased games that came on 5-1/4" floppies, and have no access to another floppy drive (and believe me, I've searched high and low, and come up empty), I'm not entitled to download that game I already own to play in Dosbox for nostalgia sake? Mkay. Duly noted.

For the record, I have about 50 games sitting in a closet that I can't use, due to the lack of a 5-1/4" floppy drive.

So you expect me to know your specific problem when you just write

Yes, technically it's all warez, but when you have no legal option of purchasing some of those games, you have to resort to other measures.

? Mkay. Duly noted.

You made a blanket statement that "First of, you never *have* to. No one forces you to break the law. You are NOT entitled to play any game you want to.", so I cited my specific issue in this case.

But whatever. No point arguing, since you've already made up your mind that "warez = bad".

PeterLI wrote:

5.25" DS/(HD/DD) FDDs are very common online. Just a matter of spending a little $.

+5

though it's more common to find a computer with it than one alone. People might not even bother gutting them out individually

leileilol wrote:

PeterLI wrote:

5.25" DS/(HD/DD) FDDs are very common online. Just a matter of spending a little $.

+5

though it's more common to find a computer with it than one alone. People might not even bother gutting them out individually

Not in my neck of the woods, they aren't. And after some bad experiences with faulty hardware through Ebay, I'm not going to buy something unless I can see it being tested.

Soupdragon wrote:

I read PC Gamer July 2000 cover disc had some free full dos classic games on it. Would downloading the cover disc from archive.org be pirating?

Yes.

There have been numerous instances in the past where games have been released for free as special licenses for a time-limited period or through alternative mediums which cost money, such as magazine CDs. The licensing requires that the game only be made available through specific means for a specific time frame, thus any attempt to acquire the game outside of that through the medium it was on wouldn't apply to the license agreement.

This is one of the key differences between public domain and freeware. If a game is public domain, that means there's effectively no copyrights on it. Freeware may be free to download but is STILL held under copyright, it's just that the author has decided to allow people to freely distribute it. Being under copyright, people can't sell the game nor modify it and sell the derivative.

CGW did something horrible for one disc though, mirroring some outright HOTU rips on one of their discs thinking abandonware's a legal thing. Definitely a reaction to PC Gamer's disc, and a lazy one at that.

Drivers are copyrighted too, and often drivers discs include extras like audio editing and music creating software, should those be allowed?

Sharing is one thing, illegal modification is another.
Plus, if a driver is a crap load like Intel X3100 drivers, id rather have hacked versions illegally.

Recently I found a 5.25" and 3.5" floppy drives, sealed, for $3 each at a thrift shop. That BS argument never works.

Well I would consider yourself lucky then because I have certainly never seen one in a thrift store, let alone sealed. I've found sealed boxes of Diskettes however.

Why do we keep on beating this dead horse?! Don't we have a life to live. We know the policy of this site. Why do we keep on arguing this moot point. Why doesn't the moderator just close this thread. How many threads about abandonware does this site need?

Apparently one more. 😜

Decades from now people are gonna agree that abandonware was actually a good thing.

1+

How else are we going to preserve all these old games?

lolo799 wrote:

Drivers are copyrighted too, and often drivers discs include extras like audio editing and music creating software, should those be allowed?

Being copyrighted in and of itself does not mean, "cannot copy under any circumstances". Freeware is copyrighted. :P

This actually takes us full circle to the whole reason why abandonware websites are able to do what they do without getting pulled offline in seconds: In order for a company to sue someone for copyright violation they have to prove damages. The purpose of drivers is to allow a company's hardware to function properly on someone's computer. The company has nothing to lose and everything to gain by allowing their drivers to be freely distributed. (Most companies do this themselves anyways.)

The additional software however is either not commercially sold, in which case there's not much of a risk towards it being distributed, or is licensed from a third party which DOES sell it, in which case it will be licensed differently from the drivers and the company who owns the copyrights to that software won't typically allow said software to be distributed with the drivers in an online fashion.

catchaserguns wrote:

Why do we keep on beating this dead horse?! Don't we have a life to live. We know the policy of this site. Why do we keep on arguing this moot point. Why doesn't the moderator just close this thread. How many threads about abandonware does this site need?

This thread has been about more than abandonware, but yeah, I imagine it won't stay unlocked forever. :B

King_Corduroy wrote:

How else are we going to preserve all these old games?

Tight cardboard boxes do it for me.

"Abandonware" is hardly about preservation if they have all the timestamps set to 12/24/96 and the game is broken.

The real TRUE rare games are shareware/freeware that had limited internet distribution on a few obscure BBSes and quickly shuttered sites.

Gemini000 wrote:

Being copyrighted in and of itself does not mean, "cannot copy under any circumstances". Freeware is copyrighted. 😜

This actually takes us full circle to the whole reason why abandonware websites are able to do what they do without getting pulled offline in seconds: In order for a company to sue someone for copyright violation they have to prove damages. The purpose of drivers is to allow a company's hardware to function properly on someone's computer. The company has nothing to lose and everything to gain by allowing their drivers to be freely distributed. (Most companies do this themselves anyways.)

Of course, but when a company loses the right to distribute the drivers for a particular product, what then?

Gemini000 wrote:

This thread has been about more than abandonware, but yeah, I imagine it won't stay unlocked forever. :B

Don't see why a topic like this should get locked. No links have been published and the discussion is civil.

ElectricMonk wrote:

You made a blanket statement that "First of, you never *have* to. No one forces you to break the law. You are NOT entitled to play any game you want to.", so I cited my specific issue in this case.

But whatever. No point arguing, since you've already made up your mind that "warez = bad".

After trying to deliberately misleading me you are deliberately misreading me (at least I hope it's deliberate)...
I never said or do actually think "warez = bad" (at least not in the way you think).
I'm just stating the fact that warez are illegal. A torrent with all ScummVM games is illegal, there is no grey area there.

The reason why I think most warez ARE bad has already been brought up: They are often shitty rips that break things left and right and you have those people with no clue running here thinking it is perfectly legal.

ElectricMonk wrote:

So even when I purchased games that came on 5-1/4" floppies, and have no access to another floppy drive, I'm not entitled to download that game I already own to play in Dosbox/ScummVM for nostalgia sake?

Yes. That's actually exactly right. You're not entitled at all. Just like you're not entitled to torrent TV episodes because you think the price of Cable/Satellite is too high, you're not entitled to torrent movies because your local cinema is getting it a few days/weeks after premiere, and you're not entitled to torrent DVD rips because your disk is scratched.

The only thing you're entitled to is the copy you bought in 1980-something. If you can't access that because you're unwilling to spend the money on appropriate hardware, then in the eyes of the law, tough titties.

NB: I should note that I don't care whether or not people pirate. It only bothers me that people somehow think what they're doing is OK and/or not illegal because of convenience.