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First post, by Great Hierophant

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My short answer to the topic question is three at most, one at least. Today's highly integrated motherboards pack in a lot of features. Gigabit ethernet, USB2 and often Firewire controllers are standard on most motherboards. No need for PCI cards for those features anymore. Recent video cards have sufficient power for mpeg2 decoding that standalone DVD decoders are not necessary anymore. SCSI controllers can be found on the motherboard too, generally 0,1,0+1, 5 and JBOD. Any extra performance received by consumer-priced SCSI 32-bit PCI controllers isn't worth the cost of upgrading. Video tuner and capture cards may a niche if you can't find an All-In-Wonder AGP card that can do the same thing. Modems? Well, if you live in caveman country I guess I could see the need for a PCI modem.

The only truly compelling use for a PCI slot these days is to insert a sound card, and only if you need high fidelity recording/playback capabilities or 3D EAX positional audio (sound blasters.) Otherwise you can rely on the integrated audio codec for the basics. PCI slots, like IDE ports still have enough uses that they will be around for a while longer. (DVD drives and burners have been slow to adopt SATA.) Serial ports are in danger of becoming extinct on new motherboards, parallel ports will follow them and even PS/2 ports may not be safe. (USB to PS/2 adapters will fill any perceived need for compatibility.) Its also getting tough to justify the floppy drive connector when a USB cable is much slimmer. (The OS CD will do any required booting in the future.)

Actually, the AGP port may become extinct before the PCI slot. The AGP port is limited to one port while PCI-express can divy lanes to slots as needed. SLI could not feasibly occur with AGP but it can with PCI-E. It won't go as fast as the VLB bus slot, tied to the 486 bus, but its days are being numbered.

Reply 1 of 12, by eL_PuSHeR

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As for sound cards, sometimes integrated audio isn't that bad, specially with newer motherboards.

As for AGP, you are right. PCI Express seems to be the way to go.

As for your question, I surmise 'the more, the better'. No hurt in having more free pci slots.

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Reply 2 of 12, by HunterZ

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Yeah, it all depends on what you think you'll want out of the system. I would want to have at least one slot, for one or more of the following:
- wireless LAN card (not many on-board solutions yet, probably because the technology is still evolving)
- extra disk controller (IDE, SCSI, SATA, whatever floats your boat)
- video capture card (I don't share your enthusiasm for the All-In-Wonder solution, as they're expensive and you have to pay extra for the tuner feature each time your video card goes out of date)
- sound card (if you end up with crappy onboard sound, which is becoming more and more rare)

Also, if you need a modem then you can probably get a motherboard with a special modem riser slot. I think there are standard modem riser cards that are really cheap now (under $20 for sure). Not that I use one either...

What are you talking about with VLB? That's old-school!

Reply 3 of 12, by [vEX]

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I could do without any PCI slots, I don't use any in this system. Got an integrated sound card on my motherboard that is good enough for my needs (and my crappy speakers).
AGP can go die in favour for PCI-express, same goes with old PATA if only CD/DVD-drives would use SATA.

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Reply 4 of 12, by eL_PuSHeR

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Why would you want CD/DVDs to use SATA? I think it's pointless that a DVD drive goes beyond using UDMA2. The problem with DVD drives is mainly related to linear/angular/spinning speeds that make them too slow compared to hard disks.
What I am trying to say is that DVD drives will always be a lot slower compared to HDs.

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Reply 5 of 12, by DosFreak

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You'd be crazy to use a PCI modem nowadays anyway. Better solution is an external Serial/USB modem. I replaced the PCI software modem in my parent's Compaq with an external 3Com using a serial interface. If they upgrade their computer and it doesn't have serial I'll see about a Serial->USB converter. The extra overhead of USB is still probly better than using any other generic external USB modem since 3Com made the best external modems, IMO.

Also for those of us who use firewire, assuming that you do find a motherboard with FireWire, it'll most likely be FireWire 400 and not 800 so you'd need a Slot for that.

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Reply 6 of 12, by DosFreak

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eL_PuSHeR wrote:

Why would you want CD/DVDs to use SATA? I think it's pointless that a DVD drive goes beyond using UDMA2. The problem with DVD drives is mainly related to linear/angular/spinning speeds that make them too slow compared to hard disks.
What I am trying to say is that DVD drives will always be a lot slower compared to HDs.

For current technology there aren't very many reasons except to get rid of the huge cables. For HD DVD/BluRay then yeah SATA MIGHT be needed, doubtfull tho. I'll have to check the specs.

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Reply 7 of 12, by eL_PuSHeR

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Somehow, I also thought of BluRay (or whatever is called) when I wrote my previous post. We'll have to check its specifications, as you say. 😎

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Reply 8 of 12, by DosFreak

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Check this out: http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#1.7

According to the Blu-ray Disc v1.0 specification, 1x speed will require a 36.5Mbps data transfer rate, which means it will take about 1 hour and 33 minutes to record 25GB. The Blu-ray Disc Association are currently working on the v2.0 specification, which will support 2x speed to cut the time it takes to copy content from one disc to another in half. In the future, the data transfer rate is expected to be raised to 8x or more.

Of course DVD tech will never have faster data transfer than HD tech so the next gen DVD standard would probably work just fine with PATA...assuming the manufacturers make a PATA interface, probably not because whatever copy protection method they use would probably require SATA....(conspiracy theory)

http://www.osta.org/technology/dvdqa/dvdqa4.htm

CD
52x=0.9750MBps or 7.8Mbps

DVD Read/Write Speed
4x=0.66MBps or 5.28Mbps
6x=0.99125MBps or 7.93Mbps
8x=1.32125MBps or 10.57Mbps
10x=1.65125MBps or 13.21Mbps
12x=1.98125MBps or 15.85Mbps
16x=2.6625MBps or 21.3Mbps

Blu-ray Disc v1.0 specification
1X=4.5625MBps or 36.5Mbps
2x= 9MBps or 72Mbps

HD-DVD
1x=2.3750MBps or 19Mbps

Last edited by DosFreak on 2005-03-28, 09:44. Edited 4 times in total.

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Reply 9 of 12, by eL_PuSHeR

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36.5Mbps is about 4,56MB/s - Most normal ATA-80pin HDs can deliver this speed without compromise (my UDMA5 delivers almost 30MB/s+). If that's the right speed it could be compared to current DVD 4X speed (even a little slower).

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Reply 10 of 12, by HunterZ

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When you guys say "Mb" do you mean megabytes or megabits? I get confused when I see both big B's (which I usually think of as bytes) and little b's (which I usually think of as bits)

Reply 11 of 12, by DosFreak

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http://www.edoceo.com/utilis/bandwidth-calcul … b&cmd=Calculate

It can be very confusing. I hate math.

Mb = Megabits MB = Megabytes

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Reply 12 of 12, by [vEX]

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eL_PuSHeR wrote:

Why would you want CD/DVDs to use SATA? I think it's pointless that a DVD drive goes beyond using UDMA2. The problem with DVD drives is mainly related to linear/angular/spinning speeds that make them too slow compared to hard disks.
What I am trying to say is that DVD drives will always be a lot slower compared to HDs.

Just to get rid of an old standard and those huge cables (yeah I know there are round ones).

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