dcsliquidations on ebay are true dickbags

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Re: dcsliquidations on ebay are true dickbags

Postby ShenTao » 2017-11-17 @ 01:22

It did have photos, but you can't tell from a photo that a keyboard isn't buckling spring. I assumed from the advertised title of Unicomp M13 keyboard (some other numbers in there too that I googles but didn't come up with anything recent) that it was a clone of the M13 by IBM. It is anything but that in terms of feel. Mushier than even my apple keyboards
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Re: dcsliquidations on ebay are true dickbags

Postby cyclone3d » 2017-11-17 @ 05:08

I'm not seeing ANY sold listings with a title of Unicomp M13.

I'm also not seeing ANY active listings of Unicomp M13.

Maybe a link to the original listing?
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Re: dcsliquidations on ebay are true dickbags

Postby vvbee » 2017-11-17 @ 05:09

If you can't tell from the photos, it's not mentioned in the listing, parts of the model number look unfamiliar, and you don't ask for details, you're plausibly not getting a desired outcome. The seller clearly wasn't interested in great customer service, but beyond that the case compiled against him here isn't strong.
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Re: dcsliquidations on ebay are true dickbags

Postby Jade Falcon » 2017-11-17 @ 14:33

I agree. The seller could have handled things alot better and was rather rude. But the buyer should have asked and not assumed.
I been in this boat before, its not fun as both a buyer or a seller.
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Re: dcsliquidations on ebay are true dickbags

Postby ShenTao » 2017-11-17 @ 15:43

Well, the case was decided in my favor and I get to send the item back to his dickface.

www.ebay.com/itm/112303509674

Here's the original listing. There was no indication to me that I wasn't buying an actual Model M.

Why is it somehow my f-ing responsibility when the seller describes the keyboard as identical to the IBM M13 to ask the questions - the entire listing is misleading!
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Re: dcsliquidations on ebay are true dickbags

Postby Jade Falcon » 2017-11-17 @ 15:52

ShenTao wrote:Well, the case was decided in my favor and I get to send the item back to his dickface.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/112303509674

Here's the original listing. There was no indication to me that I wasn't buying an actual Model M.

Why is it somehow my f-ing responsibility when the seller describes the keyboard as identical to the IBM M13 to ask the questions - the entire listing is misleading!


How is that misleading? I never seen that keyboard outside of videos and photos with buckling spring before, not as a IBM or unicomp, and I had/work with 100's of them. Most of them never had buckling springs and not one unicomp had them if I recall right. Nor does the listing say anything about it having clicky keys. There was even a model number in the listing that you could have looked up and found out if it was clicky or not.
Nor does is say its identical to the IBM M13, the listing says its a "IBM M13 type keyboard"
IBM contracted the M13 out to different company's in it's latter days and most were not clicky then. Finding a M13 layout that is clicky and not rubber dome is a rare find.

Looks even more like you bought the wrong item and happen to be forcing a return on the seller.
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Re: dcsliquidations on ebay are true dickbags

Postby vvbee » 2017-11-17 @ 17:59

I looked at the listing yesterday and also at the negative feedback you left the seller. By my estimation if you're willing to argue that the feedback was just then you have to argue the same for the buyer. I wouldn't draw too many conclusions from ebay's decision here.
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Re: dcsliquidations on ebay are true dickbags

Postby ShenTao » 2017-11-17 @ 18:07

Think what you want man but if you don't collect vintage keyboards it's a seriously ridiculous thing when someone claims it's identical to the M13 (which the ones made by LexMark and Maxiswitch are as you referred, clicky/buckling spring) and it turns out to be some cheap rubber dome shit.

The model number when googled brings up NOTHING about the key operation - Unicomp hasn't that model in their current catalogues and the only things you can find are CNET reviews and the like which do not mention the key operation.

Gods above Jade Falcon, you're going to take the lunatic's side after all of this? I'm not even the only one who has had issues with him. Let me give a more recent transcript minus some personal information:

https://ghostbin.com/paste/4z97w

I left out a message which included a street view of my address and a threat from him that he wanted to hurt me and my cat. I don't feel safe sharing that particular message so I cut it out.

The case was decided in my favor in ten minutes time this morning at 10:30EST.

I would be very hesitant to endorse the way the seller has acted - especially as an eBay seller myself. When a customer wants a return, I generally say yes. It's easier to go along with it and take the hit than deal with eBay unless it's clearly an implication of fraud against me. And this isn't a case of fraud. The seller didn't accurately describe his item - nobody can argue with that at this point.
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Re: dcsliquidations on ebay are true dickbags

Postby F2bnp » 2017-11-17 @ 19:18

The guy is very rude and he wanted 120$ for a rubber dome keyboard? Yeah, seems fishy. Glad you're getting your money back.
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Re: dcsliquidations on ebay are true dickbags

Postby Jade Falcon » 2017-11-17 @ 22:04

Once more not all m13 were clicky not even all ibm branded m13 were clicky. All the later ones were ruber dome and contracted out to other companies. Sume were sold under the ibm made other were sold under others brands.
Nore dose the seller state anything about it being identical to the m13. But that its a m13 type keyboard.
Your jumping to conclusion and blaming the seller for your mistakes.

Now if he said it was a clicky m13 keyboard and you received a ruber dome keyboard then thsts another case.


Edit
Also you violated ebays feedback policy by talkibg about returns in your feedback. Dont be amazed if your feedback is removed.
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Re: dcsliquidations on ebay are true dickbags

Postby cyclone3d » 2017-11-17 @ 22:37

Jade Falcon wrote:Once more not all m13 were clicky not even all ibm branded m13 were clicky. All the later ones were ruber dome and contracted out to other companies. Sume were sold under the ibm made other were sold under others brands.
Nore dose the seller state anything about it being identical to the m13. But that its a m13 type keyboard.
Your jumping to conclusion and blaming the seller for your mistakes.

Now if he said it was a clicky m13 keyboard and you received a ruber dome keyboard then thsts another case.


Edit
Also you violated ebays feedback policy by talkibg about returns in your feedback. Dont be amazed if your feedback is removed.


"This is the Unicomp 96U9700 M13 IBM compatible keyboard which seems to be identical to the IBM version."
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Re: dcsliquidations on ebay are true dickbags

Postby ShenTao » 2017-11-18 @ 00:01

I did not extort the seller for feedback, so as far as eBAy policy goes, you're wrong. Of course, feel free to quote the exact policy if you thought I did wrong.

I can't believe after how the guy supposedly threatened you that you'd try to characterize me as some sort of predatory buyer.

And see the post above. The seller was a total idiot for that. If you search DCS Inc Albany OH online a thread comes up with people complaining of his behavior back in 2009!
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Re: dcsliquidations on ebay are true dickbags

Postby vvbee » 2017-11-18 @ 01:37

cyclone3d wrote:"This is the Unicomp 96U9700 M13 IBM compatible keyboard which seems to be identical to the IBM version."

It's not only just a guess but there's no indication of what the guess is based on. Does the seller know or care about switches? You don't know. If you fail looking up the model number and don't want to ask the seller to confirm the switch type, you're taking a risk with your money. Demanding a refund here is nasty.
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Re: dcsliquidations on ebay are true dickbags

Postby Jade Falcon » 2017-11-18 @ 02:30

Seems identical =\= is identical. And like insaid many times not all m13 were clicky

As for ebay policy. Its not a written one At lest not in plain English. It falls under the feedback extortion policy. Stating anything related to a return or buyer protection case can be grounds for feedback removal. But the seller has to call ebay and ask to have it removed. I seen it quite a few times with feedback I left.

As for looking up the company, I found nothing in regards to complaints in 09. Can you send a link.
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Re: dcsliquidations on ebay are true dickbags

Postby badmojo » 2017-11-18 @ 05:42

This thread is a total cluster fudge, someone kill it please!
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Re: dcsliquidations on ebay are true dickbags

Postby yawetaG » 2017-11-18 @ 06:37

badmojo wrote:This thread is a total cluster fudge, someone kill it please!


Oh come on, after exposing a bad seller, it is now exposing a bad(?) buyer! :lol:
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Re: dcsliquidations on ebay are true dickbags

Postby ShenTao » 2017-11-18 @ 07:12

Google the model number and Unicomp. The first page of Google has no useful information. And no, I dont consider it my responsibility to dig through pages of useless Google results to find a reference to it.

That is for everyone who claims I'm some predatory buyer asshole. That isn't the case. Agreement with eBay for business requires that the sellers (myself included as I sell stuff on eBay too) have to take certain risks and precautions. This is standard customer service 101. Not being an asshole. I was for most of the initial interaction polite.

http://m.topix.com/forum/city/albany-oh ... stries-inc

Here you go. Same guy, DCS Industries in Albany OH. Corroborating everyone who has dealt with the prick here. So does anyone actually want to defend this toolbag?

So you can't quote the exact policy? I'm not going to just take your word for it. I had called eBay and the rep in their account security and trust department suggested I leave detailed feedback to warn others.

As for your 'But not all M13s were mechanical', those aren't actually considered M13s by the community.

As a seller on eBay ive had to deal with ridiculous returns including someone who bought a Dvorak keyboard and then not happy that it wasnt QWERTY, even with detailed pictures and an explanation and link to Wikipedia in the description. What did I do? I let them return it and refunded their purchase price sans shipping. I then relisted it and got someone else who bought it knowing exactly what they wanted.

I don't return much on eBay and this is the first 'NAD' reason to return ive ever done.
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Re: dcsliquidations on ebay are true dickbags

Postby dr_st » 2017-11-18 @ 09:55

ShenTao,
In my view, we are dealing with separate issues here.

One of them is the seller being a jerk, with no concept of customer service, and making ridiculous claims. This goes without saying, and in this light I agree that eBay was right to rule in your favor.

However, seeing as you probably already knew of the seller's record from this forum, this begs the question as to why you entered into a transaction with him in the first place. Because you thought you are getting a rare collectible at a good price, and were willing to take the risk?

As to the "merits of the case" - here I have to agree with the others - it is not as clear-cut as you seem to think. The seller did not misrepresent anything. He never said that it was a mechanical keyboard, or a genuine IBM M13. The fact that there exist out there keyboards bearing the "M13" name, by IBM as others, some of which are not mechanical, has been established. That "the community does not consider them genuine M13s" is irrelevant. It is not the responsibility of a seller to know all the canons of obscure geek communities.

He wrote "appears to be identical". In some ways it is, in others it is not. He did not even make the claim that it's guaranteed to be identical in any way. The way I understand when someone tells me something "appears to be" is that to the best of his understanding, it is. If I know that there can be caveats, that not all people may be aware of, I ask for clarifications first.

It seems that in this case neither you nor the seller were aware that there may be differences in key mechanisms between M13 keyboards, and I don't think that he is more responsible for the resulting error than you are. In fact, had the seller taken a more polite and logical (but firm) approach, the outcome may have been different. His listing did say 'no returns', and your case of 'Not as described' is quite weak. He said "IBM Compatible", not "IBM", and "appears to be identical", not "identical". He posted detailed pictures of the item, which you could have researched, or tried to research. If you could find no useful information, that is still not the seller's problem. I am aware of no rule that says that sellers must know all the obscure tiny details about every thing they sell.

Reasonable sellers would finish "no-returns" listings such as this one with "if you are not sure about something please ask before buying". Then if you did not ask, and chose to buy based on the limited information offered in the listing, the seller would not be held responsible. Obviously, this guy is not a reasonable seller, as is evident from your and others' communication with him, and he does not want to answer any questions.

TL;DR - you are very lucky that the seller is a jerk with poor communication skills. The merits of the case were not in your favor, and a different seller probably could have convinced eBay that he is in the right, not you.
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Re: dcsliquidations on ebay are true dickbags

Postby ShenTao » 2017-11-18 @ 14:40

I had no idea of his reputation prior to buying the item.

And I assumed it was a mechanical M13 due to the wording of the listing and the design. I was only ever aware if mechanical M13s, not rubber dome ones.

It was only in the course of this whole thing that discovered Vogons. One of the reasons I signed up was to warn others of my experience.

If after my warnings and what I think is reasonable behavior everyone here wants to crucify me for my conduct, be my guest. But I think that isn't how I would treat someone who voluntarily shared his experiences of s known bad seller and everyone here wants to nitpick about what is and isn't my responsibility? Cut me a break guys.

Taking up for a mental seller whose gotan awful reputation back to 2009... I'm appalled at the way I'm being treated for sharing a warning.
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Re: dcsliquidations on ebay are true dickbags

Postby dr_st » 2017-11-18 @ 16:10

ShenTao wrote:And I assumed it was a mechanical M13 due to the wording of the listing and the design. I was only ever aware if mechanical M13s, not rubber dome ones
You were not aware of the existence of rubber dome M13s, so you didn't think to ask. The seller was not aware that there was even something to check, besides the appearance, so he didn't check. It appears both you and him made genuine honest mistakes here. However, his listing to me seems to be worded in a reasonable way, and does not claim anything that he did not deliver. He did not claim it to be a genuine M13, and did not claim it to be mechanical.

ShenTao wrote:It was only in the course of this whole thing that discovered Vogons. One of the reasons I signed up was to warn others of my experience.
And for that we thank you.

ShenTao wrote:If after my warnings and what I think is reasonable behavior everyone here wants to crucify me for my conduct, be my guest.
I am not crucifying you. I just happen to disagree with you about the merits of the case.

ShenTao wrote:Taking up for a mental seller whose gotan awful reputation back to 2009... I'm appalled at the way I'm being treated for sharing a warning.
Don't take it so hard. When you share information such as this, you have to be prepared that not everyone will share your view. Your warning is appreciated, and I think that you achieved your goal - if after the previous reported case some people had doubts, I am confident that no one here will want to conduct business with that seller now.
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