wrote:wrote:If you do it for a different model then the computer is not the same anymore...
The computer wouldn't be the same no matter what component you change... It would just be similar to what it used to be.
Common you know that isn't true, you just can't pop up an add-on card and go "Hey look I have a new computer!"
BGWG as in Boogie Woogie.
wrote:Let's see. I keep a tech log for my various PC builds, noting hardware/software/configuration/tweaks and dated service entries. Generally I change to a new log when I either change the OS or graphic card of a machine, since those 2 parts have the greatest impact on what is essentially a gaming machine for me. I refer to builds mostly in terms of OS/GPU. Changes in other components, even motherboard/cpu, I maintain the same log.
Now I can't really argue that just changing the GPU creates a new machine, but I find it convenient to refer to it as one. For legacy rigs this is especially true. Swapping a Voodoo 2 for a Voodoo 5 is not an upgrade, but the creation of a new legacy platform.
Example: I call my current rig the W7/5770CF meaning it's Windows 7 with a pair of HD 5770 video cards. It's had many parts replaced over time, even the motherboard, and as soon as my new FX-8350 arrives, the cpu too - same tech log throughout. But when I eventually pick up a HD 7970 video card the rig will be called W7/7970 and I'll start a fresh log..
I see what you mean.
Your primary concern is the GPU and it all revolves around it, that is ok (I can't think of a better way to have fun with old hardware!) but although it refers to the way you mentally organize the system, when you change only the video card the computer remains the same but with a different purpose, and so you call it a different name. (still the same computer).
OTOH if you change the motherboard leaving the remain system intact, including the precious video card 😉 , it would be a new system maintaining the same objective.
BGWG as in Boogie Woogie.
Now that we're talking about it I guess I do think of the the OS and GPU as the brain and soul of a rig. The other parts constitute the "mortal coil" - attributes that can be manipulated without altering the essential character of the machine. A sort of dualist conception of the computer I suppose.
That's an interesting way to look at it. When I think of swapping a video card all I associate with it is updating the drivers. Where as changing the motherboard means it's time to do a clean install of the OS.
wrote:That's an interesting way to look at it. When I think of swapping a video card all I associate with it is updating the drivers. Where as changing the motherboard means it's time to do a clean install of the OS.
Same here, but tincup has it working differently and it also makes sense. It's more objective oriented and less abstract.
BGWG as in Boogie Woogie.
wrote:wrote:wrote:If you do it for a different model then the computer is not the same anymore...
The computer wouldn't be the same no matter what component you change... It would just be similar to what it used to be.
Common you know that isn't true, you just can't pop up an add-on card and go "Hey look I have a new computer!"
How can it still be the same if something has changed? It's not a new computer, just slightly different to how it used to be (or upgraded 😉).
wrote:I won't like your answers unless they fit with what I think is the correct one.
🤣 That's not a good way to start a debate 😀
wrote:wrote:I won't like your answers unless they fit with what I think is the correct one.
🤣 That's not a good way to start a debate 😀
I guess you can switch the word fight for the word debate allright 😉
How can we search the truth if we're not being honest? And besides, Dominus has kindly informed me of my state of mind ( thanks Dominus , 😉 )
Anyway, I would like very much to know your version of truth about this motherboard situation.
BGWG as in Boogie Woogie.
Well for me this is easy. I usually don't say "I upgraded the computer", but I'm a lot more specific like "I upgraded the processor from a dual core to a quad", or "I upgraded the RAM from 4 to 8GB".
I find upgraded the mainboard highly unusual / unlikely. Usually you buy a new one with a new CPU, RAM and all of that, or you buy one because the old one died. I don't think I have ever changed out the mainboard in one of my machine because of better performance, more features or because you can usually buy an add-on card (e.g. USB 3.0 or more SATA ports).
So someone changing out the mainboard I would call a "sidegrade". Very unusual and likely minimal to zero performance benefit 😁
Changing the motherboard can also be considered an upgrade because of components on the motherboard itself. The motherboard may have a better hard drive controller or better on board sound or video than the motherboard it is replacing. It may have a higher RAM limit and allow for the use of a faster type of RAM. The CPU slot/socket may also allow for faster CPU's to be used and the expansion slots may allow for newer technology cards to be used that you couldn't use on the old motherboard.
I recently upgraded a motherboard to get USB3, SATA3 and 2 Pcie slots @16. I considered it an "upgrade", at least in the sense of my previous comments about logs and naming conventions.
Yes, but the question is not if changing motherboard is an unpgrade, (because it can be in a particular sense) but rather if you are upgrading the same computer as before, or, you are upgrading from your old computer to another one by changing the motherboard.
For instance, tincup, did you stayed with the same chipset?
BGWG as in Boogie Woogie.
wrote:Well for me this is easy. I usually don't say "I upgraded the computer", but I'm a lot more specific like "I upgraded the processor from a dual core to a quad", or "I upgraded the RAM from 4 to 8GB".
You upgrade the cpu of what? Of a particular PC, that remains the same but with a faster cpu.
What happens when you "sidegrade" the motherboard? You have a different PC.
BGWG as in Boogie Woogie.
wrote:Changing the motherboard can also be considered an upgrade because of components on the motherboard itself. The motherboard may have a better hard drive controller or better on board sound or video than the motherboard it is replacing. It may have a higher RAM limit and allow for the use of a faster type of RAM. The CPU slot/socket may also allow for faster CPU's to be used and the expansion slots may allow for newer technology cards to be used that you couldn't use on the old motherboard.
Yes this is true, only when upgrading from a ZX to a BX for instance.
But you are already thinking in advance. We need to reach a consensus before thinking about this more complicated details. 😉
BGWG as in Boogie Woogie.
wrote:wrote:Well for me this is easy. I usually don't say "I upgraded the computer", but I'm a lot more specific like "I upgraded the processor from a dual core to a quad", or "I upgraded the RAM from 4 to 8GB".
You upgrade the cpu of what? Of a particular PC, that remains the same but with a faster cpu.
What happens when you "sidegrade" the motherboard? You have a different PC.
A sidegrade is when you change like for like. When you change the motherboard for one that is superior, then that is an upgrade not a sidegrade.
wrote:I recently upgraded a motherboard to get USB3, SATA3 and 2 Pcie slots @16. I considered it an "upgrade", at least in the sense of my previous comments about logs and naming conventions.
Ok that's fair enough. I never upgraded a mainboard, which had the same socket but more features myself, but I can now see why one would do this. Definitely an upgrade.
wrote:A sidegrade is when you change like for like. When you change the motherboard for one that is superior, then that is an upgrade not a sidegrade.
True. Has hanyone ever downgraded? I have in the past. Sometimes to raise cash or to simplify things.
wrote:You upgrade the cpu of what? Of a particular PC, that remains the same but with a faster cpu.
What happens when you "sidegrade" the motherboard? You have a different PC.
Nah, still the same PC in my eyes. Especially if you stay on the same socket. Now if you upgrade the board to a new socket, with new CPU, new RAM, a better graphics card, yea then you can talk about having a new PC.
Oh BTW, has anyone heard of the rumours that Intel CPUs will soon be sold only with a motherboard? So no more changing out / upgrading the CPU?
And another way to look at this is how Microsoft activates windows / ties Windows to a machine. I believe if you swap the mainboard > reactive Windows. I have heard that this is also the case with other components, but never tried it myself...
IMO, you don't buy "a new computer" unless you bin the whole lot and start over from scratch.
The motherboard is just another part, you can upgrade it just like you upgrade a HDD (albeit more labour and time intensive).
The thing is that us enthusiasts can go years without doing that. We can perform a string of progressive upgrades all the way from Pentium II to Core i7 3xxx.
Whereas the lay folk will give the whole system to goodwill, and buy a whole new system.
wrote:Oh BTW, has anyone heard of the rumours that Intel CPUs will soon be sold only with a motherboard? So no more changing out / upgrading the CPU?
That was debunked.
VogonsDrivers.com | Link | News Thread
True. I always forget that we are very small minority. The general public just buys a Dell, Acer or HP Desktop set and when it gets to slow or bogged down with viruses they buy a new one 😀
Since 2001 I have used the same case for my main PC. Every 1.5 years I have upgraded the RAM and maybe the Video Card along with other devices like optical discs and hard drives and the power supply. When the cost for more than doubling my CPU and RAM performance dropped below $200 for the Motherboard, CPU and RAM replacement I made that move as well. In each case I considered the process upgrading my computer, but in some cases I considered it an entirely new PC. When I jumped over 1000Mhz in the upgrade, or at least doubled the cores of the CPU, I considered it a new machine.
wrote:For instance, tincup, did you stayed with the same chipset?
The chipset did change when I upgraded motherboard; 79xx series to the 990FX. No game changer but it supports my incremental cpu/ram/sata/usb/ssd upgrades better, and i won't need to think about that part for a good while i hope...
As I mentioned before, when I pop in a new gpu [hopefully score a 7970 OC on sale at some point] the rig will be "new" as far as i'm concerned, not simply "up-gunned." It's like the evolutionary process of speciation in a way.
