Over 10 years ago I started collecting and managed to snag an adlib card, a boxed MT32 and an Amstrad PC1640 for quite cheap. Never really got the MT32 up and running since I only had an Adlib card at the time. Got rid of all of it except the MT32 due to space constraints. About 3 years ago I somehow stumbled upon USB-MIDI converters which lead me to Vogons. At the time I started with the idea (like most people on here) that I must have the right physical hardware for the right period (especially with more storage space now). However I never really completed any of my projects before starting the next one and started to think Phil's idea of having a time machine might suit me better after all, since I'm not a real purist.

So ultimately yes, I do love vintage hardware but more so from the collecting point of view. I started collecting PC's, then sound cards, then Roland MIDI devices. Never really had an end goal, I think I just like collecting/hoarding stuff, although I haven't quite figured out the difference between the two yet 😀

I'm sort of a mix of both. I buy old hardware for the hardware, but I also chose based on what I need. As an example, the first 2 Thief games are best on a Window 9x machine with 3DFx hardware. Nvidia cards screw up the sky and ATI cards screw up the fog. There are fixes for them for modern machines, but the feel of the game changes.

On the other hand, I also have a TI-99/4A, a Commodore 128, an Amiga 2000, and an Amiga 4000. If I had the money, and I may never be able to get this, I'd also have an Apple II (preferably a IIGS, but a IIe would work if necessary.) Why do I have those? Because those are the systems I started with. My very first computer was the TI, followed by a C64 and an Apple IIe. The C64 eventually graduated to the 128, and I never had any of the compatibility problems I've read about. Finally I got the A2000 (after playing a lot on my fathers A500.) It was a long time before I gave the PC a try, my very first one was a state of the art 486DX50 (soon upgraded to 100.)

I love the old games, and many of them I'll play in DOSBox, but I also like playing them on compatible HW. But only if speed isn't going to be an issue. Privateer will be played on my real HW, while Wing Commander will be in DOSBox (as examples.) I'm still toying around with slow-down software for my real HW, but none of them are really satisfying. They work, after a fashion, but DOSBox seems to do it better.

As for monitors, I'd stick with my LCD if they would do what I want. I want to be able to set 4:3 and have it scale to that. Right now I have an HDTV being used as a monitor (it's getting switched back eventually,) and it won't even try. I cannot set it to maintain aspect ratio in any manner. Everything gets stretched. DOSBox is fine, as it displays at 1366x768 adding in the pillars itself. But my real machine gets stretched. The LCD monitor I'm putting back will maintain aspect ratio, but doesn't "adjust". So a 640x240 gets shown at 8:3 ratio, instead of the 4:3 the graphics are designed for. I really wish I could set the monitor so that it would display a fixed 4:3 when I tell it too. Or better yet, display everything except 1366x768 at 4:3. My main system never uses anything other than 1366x768 thanks to Microshaft and their "your to stupid to run your own OS," decisions (sorry pet soap box there.)

FeedingDragon wrote:

As for monitors, I'd stick with my LCD if they would do what I want. I want to be able to set 4:3 and have it scale to that. Right now I have an HDTV being used as a monitor (it's getting switched back eventually,) and it won't even try. I cannot set it to maintain aspect ratio in any manner. Everything gets stretched. DOSBox is fine, as it displays at 1366x768 adding in the pillars itself. But my real machine gets stretched. The LCD monitor I'm putting back will maintain aspect ratio, but doesn't "adjust". So a 640x240 gets shown at 8:3 ratio, instead of the 4:3 the graphics are designed for. I really wish I could set the monitor so that it would display a fixed 4:3 when I tell it too. Or better yet, display everything except 1366x768 at 4:3. My main system never uses anything other than 1366x768 thanks to Microshaft and their "your to stupid to run your own OS," decisions (sorry pet soap box there.)

Some of the hardware I use is for practical purposes, like using different cards with different versions of MechWarrior 2 (in this, I am like a broken record). Mostly I just like using old crap! For the same reason I don't like emulating console games, I don't like emulating PC/DOS games. Granted, DOS emulation is just about pixel perfect, whereas N64 emulation has a bunch of fancy filters and unrealistically high display resolutions, but still.

Gaming to me, is all about where the experience meets the context, and original hardware, original operating systems, and original displays (Trinitron KV-32FS100 yeayuh), is a huge part of that. For the expedience of desk space, I'd like to use an LCD display every once in a while, but it has narrower resolution support. For example, games I've tried in resolutions with non-standard aspect ratios, like 640x400, make the LCDs I have immediately shut off in protest.

FeedingDragon wrote:

As for monitors, I'd stick with my LCD if they would do what I want. I want to be able to set 4:3 and have it scale to that. Right now I have an HDTV being used as a monitor (it's getting switched back eventually,) and it won't even try. I cannot set it to maintain aspect ratio in any manner. Everything gets stretched. DOSBox is fine, as it displays at 1366x768 adding in the pillars itself. But my real machine gets stretched. The LCD monitor I'm putting back will maintain aspect ratio, but doesn't "adjust". So a 640x240 gets shown at 8:3 ratio, instead of the 4:3 the graphics are designed for. I really wish I could set the monitor so that it would display a fixed 4:3 when I tell it too. Or better yet, display everything except 1366x768 at 4:3. My main system never uses anything other than 1366x768 thanks to Microshaft and their "your to stupid to run your own OS," decisions (sorry pet soap box there.)

Many monitors do that!

Widescreen monitors and 4:3 aspect ratio compatibility thread

FeedingDragon wrote:

As for monitors, I'd stick with my LCD if they would do what I want. I want to be able to set 4:3 and have it scale to that. Right now I have an HDTV being used as a monitor (it's getting switched back eventually,) and it won't even try. I cannot set it to maintain aspect ratio in any manner. Everything gets stretched. DOSBox is fine, as it displays at 1366x768 adding in the pillars itself. But my real machine gets stretched. The LCD monitor I'm putting back will maintain aspect ratio, but doesn't "adjust". So a 640x240 gets shown at 8:3 ratio, instead of the 4:3 the graphics are designed for. I really wish I could set the monitor so that it would display a fixed 4:3 when I tell it too. Or better yet, display everything except 1366x768 at 4:3. My main system never uses anything other than 1366x768 thanks to Microshaft and their "your to stupid to run your own OS," decisions (sorry pet soap box there.)

If you have a newer (I don't know explicitly where the cutoff is - my QFX1700 has it (and it's old by now), but my FX5800 does not) nVidia graphics card and newer-ish drivers, there's video scaling options that let you adjust a number of AR/resolution scaling settings (you can have it rely on the display's scaling, or use the GPU, pick if it preserves the AR, if it re-sizes the image, if it picks a given resolution, etc). I still don't think it would address 8:3 scaling though - that's probably in the realm of "non-standard" for modern equipment. 😊 I'm not sure if similar features exist for Matrox/ATi/etc users - I keep meaning to check on my Intel graphics as to what options it offers.

I also know that my newer-ish (in the last few years) HDTVs will default anything that isn't 720p, 1080i, or 1080p to 4:3 (this includes anamorphic output from my PS2), and have options to adjust the AR/scaling of the incoming image. I've not tried putting in very low resolution signals (like 320x240) from a PC to see what they do, but VHS and PlayStation 1 both work fine. Something else I've noticed is that hooking up via YPbPr may be troublesome - I tried hooking up my 7950GX2 via YPbPr once and it would only give me 1024x768, but via VGA would correctly engage 1080p (and other resolutions). I don't know if this is a 7950GX2 problem (the GX2 is one of the only cards I have that can actually do YPbPr, and I have the adapter for it), a driver issue, or what. I've had other (non computer) devices hooked up to that display via YPbPr and they can correctly run at 1080p, 1080i, etc as well. *shrug*

Yea old newish Nvidia, AMD and Intel graphics have aspect ratio settings. Many new monitors do as well with some having a dedicated 4:3 button at the front of the unit.

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

Yea old newish Nvidia, AMD and Intel graphics have aspect ratio settings. Many new monitors do as well with some having a dedicated 4:3 button at the front of the unit.

That would be perfect 😀 Push a button and good to go. Any idea of exact model numbers & such. I hate buying expensive items in person (the price doubles or triples when you do,) but I've never seen a feature like that listed online. Though, to be honest, I wasn't exactly looking for that specifically. Still, I think I would have noticed.

As for newish NVidia (or ATI for that matter,) cards go. I'm stuck with older ones, because the newer ones don't have Win3.1 drivers. Nothing after TNT2 or Rage Pro+ has Win3.1 drivers that I can find. I have a TNT2 on it's way 😀 Hopefully the "Win3.1 Bugs" I've read about aren't that bad. Haven't done an in depth search, but the cursory search I did didn't reveal any details on that.

Check the link above. I got a little 18" Philips that has such a button. We have a 22" 16:10 screen at work that has such a button, it's a Benq. Most modern LCDs have a menu item in the OSD.

You know, don't be shy to test this out in the shop. Bring a notebook with a DOS boot CD or floppy and try it out. Studying the PDF manual also works quite well. I found that Samsung monitors are very retro compatible.

I'm not sure about 640 x 240 though. What uses this resolution and is there a free game / demo / application to test this?

For 320 x 200 and most other resolutions I use PCPBENCH.

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

Check the link above. I got a little 18" Philips that has such a button. We have a 22" 16:10 screen at work that has such a butt […]
Show full quote

Check the link above. I got a little 18" Philips that has such a button. We have a 22" 16:10 screen at work that has such a button, it's a Benq. Most modern LCDs have a menu item in the OSD.

You know, don't be shy to test this out in the shop. Bring a notebook with a DOS boot CD or floppy and try it out. Studying the PDF manual also works quite well. I found that Samsung monitors are very retro compatible.

I'm not sure about 640 x 240 though. What uses this resolution and is there a free game / demo / application to test this?

For 320 x 200 and most other resolutions I use PCPBENCH.

640 x 240 was a resolution I pulled out of thin air as an example. As far as I know, nothing PC uses that resolution. My Amiga can achieve it (non-interlaced, high res, vertical overscan.) It can also get 1280 x 200 (super high res, non-interlaced, no overscan.) 😀

As for in the shop, it would have to be... "Bring a boot CD/Stick" as I don't have a notebook. 🙁 But that is an idea, as far as it goes. I'd probably end up picking a model (or making a list,) then buying it online though. Already made a short list to check out from the link (thanks by the way.)

Do you want to get a widescreen monitor or a 19" 1280 x 1024 5:4? They are sillt being produced new. We have some Asus screens here and I really want to test them for aspect ratio setting. The manual states is does have one.

Also, you need to test with VGA. Through DVI the behaviour is often different and cards that use DVI the driver usually does 4:3 like with the GeForce4 for example. Perfect 1600 x 1200 on a 190 x 1200 screen through the driver.

I tried some cards last night, Riva TNT2 M64, GeForce2, MX 400 and they all did 4:3 on that Samsung monitor I got. I got that screen specifically for my retro gaming activities 😀

I've sort of gotten used to widescreen, and my vintage system shares the monitor (as well as the KB & Mouse,) with my main system. The monitor I have now (HP w1585,) works great, except for it's lack of 4:3 enforcement. It's only given me problems on modes over 1366 pixels wide "signal out of range. " I used my vintage system test it, and it doesn't have a DVI output, just VGA, so that's all I tested it with. Several of my games run 640 x 350 (EGA) so that's the main thing I'm looking for, will it throw 640 x 350 into 4:3 mode, scale it up to full height while maintaining the "pixel" aspect, or will it say "it's widescreen" lets just scale it up to 1333 x 768 (or whatever.) I want the first, my monitor does the second, and I've seen monitors that do the third.

What I'd like is a widescreen LED monitor with actual knobs to adjust brightness, contrast, color, tint, screen scaling mode, etc. The digital age has brought us many wonders but the blasted up/down/left/right button & embedded menu selection system is not one of them.

Or worse; capacitive buttons. So you can stab wildly at a vague outline of where an imaginary button might be to turn it on or off.

Many steps back on ease of use. But notice how studio mixers/editors are no fools - these still use manual controls..

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

But if I have to choose between DOSBOX and a real 486 machine, I would choose DOSBOX

Blasphemy!

It is MORE than simply using old hardware to play old games. Playing the old games on DosBox may be easier, cheaper and faster... but it is kind of like kissing your sister.

The old hardware has a special place in my heart and I am so happy to be able to save just a little of it from the scrap heap. It brings back fond memories, gives a sense of satisfaction and a peace of mind that is almost like coming home after a time away.

I have three retro machines set up and ready to go at any moment- and two others dating back a bit further kept carefully stored away. I have all that I need but keep an eye for any opportunities to add something special. Playing the games of course is where the rubber meets the road and I love that part just as much. It wouldn't be the same without the hardware though- I would know in my heart that it wasn't an original, but a cheap imitation of what was.

DosBox is not for me.

I agree there is something very special about using the real McCoy.

deleted... double post.

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

Yea old newish Nvidia, AMD and Intel graphics have aspect ratio settings. Many new monitors do as well with some having a dedicated 4:3 button at the front of the unit.

I have an LG FLATRON W2252TQ that comes complete with a button that is simply labeled "FUN" on it. Can't get much simpler than that. 😀

I just use a CTX Glossy LCD that is already in 4:3. Makes things simple. 🤣

tincup wrote:

What I'd like is a widescreen LED monitor with actual knobs to adjust brightness, contrast, color, tint, screen scaling mode, etc. The digital age has brought us many wonders but the blasted up/down/left/right button & embedded menu selection system is not one of them.

If I remember right Barco makes or made such a monitor. 😊