Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-11-13, 14:22:

Car play” is mainly about navigation and communications. ( email and text and phone calls )
Not just music but Microsoft has all this stuff in there App Store too.

So your reason for bringing it up is what exactly?

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-11-13, 15:00:

If you are complaining about something that light then that is way more powerful than a current iPad could ever hope to be, then have fun with your non-upgradeable tablet that doesn't have a keyboard or touchpad built in.

Are you sure? current 2020 iPad Air 4 performance beats the crap out of the high end 2018 MacBook Pro. It is only surpassed by the new M1 Macs and 2019 last Intel Macs. But have fun with your sturdy, heavy 2-in-1 laptop requiring upgrades when it gets slower or fails on you. *shrugs*

I have weighed the Yoga 500 and my 2017 iPad Pro, even with the smart keyboard on it its lighter than the Yoga.

But I can understand the PC guys, no hard feelings, they like to mess with the hardware, customize, and fix things that MS or any laptop maker should fix for free. Believe me, I was that guy until ten years ago. I got frustrated for having to do that every year and with PC parts prices skyrocketing. Now I just want things that “just works” out of the box. No upgrades. No new parts, nothing. It just works. And all my headaches are gone.

If there wasn’t Apple, I’d probably be using some linux distro like elementaryOS...

Caluser2000 wrote on 2020-11-13, 15:13:

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-11-13, 14:22:

Car play” is mainly about navigation and communications. ( email and text and phone calls )
Not just music but Microsoft has all this stuff in there App Store too.

So your reason for bringing it up is what exactly?

I want to know that too. Why? Since when a discussion about tablets became a discussion about OS for car dash?

Bruninho wrote on 2020-11-13, 15:26:

But I can understand the PC guys, no hard feelings, they like to mess with the hardware, customize, and fix things that MS or any laptop maker should fix for free. Believe me, I was that guy until ten years ago. I got frustrated for having to do that every year and with PC parts prices skyrocketing. Now I just want things that “just works” out of the box. No upgrades. No new parts, nothing. It just works. And all my headaches ae gone.

Another silly statement. There are plenty of examples of Apple products failing.

PC or any other computer hardware doesn't get slower over time unless you are dealing with overheating issues which will lead to throttling.

Sure, a Windows refresh may be needed at some point but Apple products have the same issue.

PC OS has an issue, it is usually pretty easily fixable except in extreme cases.

Apple OS has an issue ... Apple tech support - "Have you tried wiping it yet?"

As for different system performance. Do you have links to tests run with the 2020 iPad Air 4 and the 2018 Macbook Pro and newer (same apps being benched are a must as is information about what platform each app it is optimized for).

Sucky performance on one platform is not necessarily indicative of the hardware's performance which is why I want data on which hardware platform said apps are optimized for.

I am not an Apple products guru so feel free to prove me wrong. At the same time I prefer PCs over Apple products. For what I use a computer for, a PC has always been way better than anything Apple.

Been building and repairing PCs since around 1991. I've also done some repair and upgrade work on Apple products in the last few years and while some stuff is nice, it is way more difficult to resolve when there is an OS issue compared to Windows unless you just do an OS reset and start from scratch.

Caluser2000 wrote on 2020-11-13, 15:13:

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-11-13, 14:22:

Car play” is mainly about navigation and communications. ( email and text and phone calls )
Not just music but Microsoft has all this stuff in there App Store too.

So your reason for bringing it up is what exactly?

This is just another reason why the iPad is so successful. Using magnets you can attach it to you card dash board.
This is another reason why a small 9-inch Windows tablet could be successful too.

After all the Microsoft App Store is about purchases and making money too.

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-11-13, 16:30:

This is just another reason why the iPad is so successful. Using magnets you can attach it to you card dash board.
This is another reason why a small 9-inch Windows tablet could be successful too.

After all the Microsoft App Store is about purchases and making money too.

Last time I looked magnets don't stick to plastic at all.

Caluser2000 wrote on 2020-11-13, 17:04:

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-11-13, 16:30:

This is just another reason why the iPad is so successful. Using magnets you can attach it to you card dash board.
This is another reason why a small 9-inch Windows tablet could be successful too.

After all the Microsoft App Store is about purchases and making money too.

Last time I looked magnets don't stick to plastic at all.

One side of the magnet will have Velcro or adhesive to stick to the dash board. The other side of the magnet can stick to the tablet magnetically.

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-11-13, 17:13:

One side of the magnet will have Velcro or adhesive to stick to the dash board. The other side of the magnet can stick to the tablet magnetically.

I can stick velcro to the back of any of my Android tablets 🤣. I'm sure Windows tablet users could do the same as well 🤣.

You can get sticky back velcro from any $2 store here in New Zealand.

I've also done some repair and upgrade work on Apple products in the last few years and while some stuff is nice, it is way more difficult to resolve when there is an OS issue compared to Windows unless you just do an OS reset and start from scratch.

Funny it's the exact opposite for me. I switched to Macs around Windows 7 time and in these last ten years I have not ONCE had to reset my OS and start from scratch. Upgraded the same initial OS install from OS X 10.6 to macOS 10.15 now (same initial OS install but not the same machine anymore). Same for all my family that has switched now. Maintenance time is way lower than when I had to look after their Windows machines. And I have never ever had a Windows machine that I didn't have to reset at least once before I upgraded to a new OS. And upgrading from one Windows to another was always hurtful and I had to do a clean install anyway. Windows experience WfW 3.11 (I think I installed that one a dozen times), Windows 95 (at least a dozen installs as well), 98, 98Se, ME, W2k, XP, W7 and W10 (I'm using it in bootcamp once every two months and in a VM to test out Windows versions of cross platform stuff). OS X/macOS experience 10.4-10.15 and 11.

Caluser2000 wrote on 2020-11-13, 17:18:

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-11-13, 17:13:

One side of the magnet will have Velcro or adhesive to stick to the dash board. The other side of the magnet can stick to the tablet magnetically.

I can stick velcro to the back of any of my Android tablets 🤣. I'm sure Windows tablet users could do the same as well 🤣.

You can even buy kits where you stick a thin metal plate in the tablet case and then the magnetic part hooks to a vent or whatever.

There are numerous ways to attach tablets and phones to a dash or similar area.

Dominus wrote on 2020-11-13, 17:21:

I've also done some repair and upgrade work on Apple products in the last few years and while some stuff is nice, it is way more difficult to resolve when there is an OS issue compared to Windows unless you just do an OS reset and start from scratch.

Funny it's the exact opposite for me. I switched to Macs around Windows 7 time and in these last ten years I have not ONCE had to reset my OS and start from scratch. Upgraded the same initial OS install from OS X 10.6 to macOS 10.15 now (same initial OS install but not the same machine anymore). Same for all my family that has switched now. Maintenance time is way lower than when I had to look after their Windows machines. And I have never ever had a Windows machine that I didn't have to reset at least once before I upgraded to a new OS. And upgrading from one Windows to another was always hurtful and I had to do a clean install anyway. Windows experience WfW 3.11 (I think I installed that one a dozen times), Windows 95 (at least a dozen installs as well), 98, 98Se, ME, W2k, XP, W7 and W10 (I'm using it in bootcamp once every two months and in a VM to test out Windows versions of cross platform stuff). OS X/macOS experience 10.4-10.15 and 11.

You must be lucky and have never had the iOS file system get corrupted. Yay for having to look up console commands to run a file system scan after suspecting the file system was having issues. This was on an older Macbook... I think it was a 2005 or so model that I was working on for a friend.

My current Windows 10 install has not been reset on my main computer in at least 3 years.

Bruninho wrote on 2020-11-13, 15:26:

But I can understand the PC guys, no hard feelings, they like to mess with the hardware, customize, and fix things that MS or any laptop maker should fix for free.

So you get free upgrades if you buy an Apple device?
Man, what a great company!

Dominus wrote on 2020-11-13, 17:21:

And I have never ever had a Windows machine that I didn't have to reset at least once before I upgraded to a new OS.

With Windows 10, this problem is pretty much resolved now. I have machines that I didn't have to reset since the first Windows 10 version came out. It just works.

You must ne lucky and have never had the iOS file system get corrupted. Yay for having to look up console commands to run a file system scan after suspecting the file system was having issues.

That is especially "nice" if you need to do these console commands on an iMac 5K which is not doing any display scaling in the recovery console. Jesus, my eyes aren't that great anymore and I'm only 31. 😁

My wifes Win 10 laptop has ran a few years without any bother. My 6 year old Android tablet still gets updates. This linux box updates fine without rebooting unless there is a kernel or grub update. It runs 24/7 with our home wireless IP camera survailance set up which cost a total of $nz300 to set up. I do find Win 10 updates annoying though as you are unable to use your system until they are finished. Mind you I don't use her Win 10 laptop that often.

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-11-13, 17:29:

Dominus wrote on 2020-11-13, 17:21:

I've also done some repair and upgrade work on Apple products in the last few years and while some stuff is nice, it is way more difficult to resolve when there is an OS issue compared to Windows unless you just do an OS reset and start from scratch.

Funny it's the exact opposite for me. I switched to Macs around Windows 7 time and in these last ten years I have not ONCE had to reset my OS and start from scratch. Upgraded the same initial OS install from OS X 10.6 to macOS 10.15 now (same initial OS install but not the same machine anymore). Same for all my family that has switched now. Maintenance time is way lower than when I had to look after their Windows machines. And I have never ever had a Windows machine that I didn't have to reset at least once before I upgraded to a new OS. And upgrading from one Windows to another was always hurtful and I had to do a clean install anyway. Windows experience WfW 3.11 (I think I installed that one a dozen times), Windows 95 (at least a dozen installs as well), 98, 98Se, ME, W2k, XP, W7 and W10 (I'm using it in bootcamp once every two months and in a VM to test out Windows versions of cross platform stuff). OS X/macOS experience 10.4-10.15 and 11.

You must be lucky and have never had the iOS file system get corrupted. Yay for having to look up console commands to run a file system scan after suspecting the file system was having issues. This was on an older Macbook... I think it was a 2005 or so model that I was working on for a friend.

My current Windows 10 install has not been reset on my main computer in at least 3 years.

Yeah, apparently I was lucky as well with a lot of other people. But file system going bad is just a lot of bad luck and happens to all OS. At least all my luck on OS X side never was there on the Windows side (I ha d a couple of bad file systems there).

(and I assume you meant MacOS not iOS?)

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-11-13, 17:22:

Caluser2000 wrote on 2020-11-13, 17:18:

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-11-13, 17:13:

One side of the magnet will have Velcro or adhesive to stick to the dash board. The other side of the magnet can stick to the tablet magnetically.

I can stick velcro to the back of any of my Android tablets 🤣. I'm sure Windows tablet users could do the same as well 🤣.

You can even buy kits where you stick a thin metal plate in the tablet case and then the magnetic part hooks to a vent or whatever.

There are numerous ways to attach tablets and phones to a dash or similar area.

I'm a bit old fashion. I worked on military aircraft for 23 years and would never put a magnet anywhere near an electronic device.

Dominus wrote on 2020-11-13, 20:03:

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-11-13, 17:29:

Dominus wrote on 2020-11-13, 17:21:

Funny it's the exact opposite for me. I switched to Macs around Windows 7 time and in these last ten years I have not ONCE had to reset my OS and start from scratch. Upgraded the same initial OS install from OS X 10.6 to macOS 10.15 now (same initial OS install but not the same machine anymore). Same for all my family that has switched now. Maintenance time is way lower than when I had to look after their Windows machines. And I have never ever had a Windows machine that I didn't have to reset at least once before I upgraded to a new OS. And upgrading from one Windows to another was always hurtful and I had to do a clean install anyway. Windows experience WfW 3.11 (I think I installed that one a dozen times), Windows 95 (at least a dozen installs as well), 98, 98Se, ME, W2k, XP, W7 and W10 (I'm using it in bootcamp once every two months and in a VM to test out Windows versions of cross platform stuff). OS X/macOS experience 10.4-10.15 and 11.

You must ne lucky and have never had the iOS file system get corrupted. Yay for having to look up console commands to run a file system scan after suspecting the file system was having issues. This was on an older Macbook... I think it was a 2005 or so model that I was working on for a friend.

My current Windows 10 install has not been reset on my main computer in at least 3 years.

Yeah, apparently I was lucky as well with a lot of other people. But file system going bad is just a lot of bad luck and happens to all OS. At least all my luck on OS X side never was there on the Windows side (I ha d a couple of bad file systems there).

(and I assume you meant MacOS not iOS?)

Yes, MacOS, not iOS.

Caluser2000 wrote on 2020-11-13, 15:45:

Bruninho wrote on 2020-11-13, 15:26:

But I can understand the PC guys, no hard feelings, they like to mess with the hardware, customize, and fix things that MS or any laptop maker should fix for free. Believe me, I was that guy until ten years ago. I got frustrated for having to do that every year and with PC parts prices skyrocketing. Now I just want things that “just works” out of the box. No upgrades. No new parts, nothing. It just works. And all my headaches ae gone.

Another silly statement. There are plenty of examples of Apple products failing.

I’m pretty sure these are caused by bad maintenance. I never had an issue. Just take good care of your computer and it will last, maybe even perform better than modern ones. I have a 2009 iMac “24 still rocking with an unsupported install of Catalina. I can give you a better example:

Where I work, me and my boss are the only Mac guys (the support team is on Dell laptops), if we don’t count the RH girl and two artists from other project. I joined the company in 2016 and I was put with a 2011 iMac 21”. I erased it ans reinstalled everything from scratch just so everything would work how I wanted it to be. At the end of the day, I had a proper Mac with a native local web server for development and all the apps I needed. two years later, I was given thr choice to switch to a 2015 rMBP “15 2012. I took it. Then before I went for vacation, I was asked if I could prepare the old iMac for a new employee. Sure, I did the same thing I did when I got it two years ago. Ready and rock solid. I went out for vacation and when I returned the “new employee” simply destroyed its performance, I have no idea how, instead of using the web server I put for him he installed MAMP over it and a series of apps I have never heard of, and he was constantly complaining about how slow it was.

Obviously I was pissed and told them to put him in a Dell laptop. Months later, another new employee, another iMac refresh. Again rocking solid and fast as never before (the other employee was in total disbelief seeing and not understanding how I did it). The end of the story? The recent new employee is treating better my old machine and its working as expected.

It’s always good maintenance. Always.

Hmmm... I've had to replace screens as HDDs in MACs before. There is also the issue of their current-ish laptop keyboards breaking if the get a bit of dust under the keys. There was/is a big fuss about this. Not sure if they have fixed this with a new design yet or not.

Some phone examples -
iPhone 7 - widespread rear camera issues. The shutter dies.
My wife's iPhone 6 had to have the home button replaced under warranty because it messed up. Wouldn't click properly any more.
iPhone 6 battery issue where Apple decided to throttle the phone speed to mask the battery issues. Apple ended up having a special $39 battery replacement for these for about a year. There was a big stink about the battery issue and that is the only reason that Apple ended up having that battery replacement deal.

You can't just say it all comes down to good maintenance because that simply isn't true.

Every company has some lemons and some excellent products.

And for some more anecdotal stuff, we have some 8+ year old Dell laptops still in use where I work.

I have some even older ones here at home that still work fine.

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-11-13, 21:26:

Hmmm... I've had to replace screens as HDDs in MACs before. There is also the issue of their current-ish laptop keyboards breaking if the get a bit of dust under the keys. There was/is a big fuss about this. Not sure if they have fixed this with a new design yet or not.

After about five years of try about 3 versions of the butterfly key switch Apple replaced them.