I don't know if I'd call Microsoft's legacy support particularly strong. Their product will install on old hardware, and run old software, but will most often do it so poorly that you almost wish it didn't.... they have these weird limitations on legacy support that feel rather arbitrary (from XP's odd crippling of the Win16 subsystem, to the complete removal of full-screen text mode support from the new 64bit video driver model).

Jorpho wrote:

sliderider wrote:

And yet Apple still manages to sell more computers than any single PC manufacturer.

...

Steve Jobs was very shortsighted when he ditched the clone makers program when he returned to Apple.

Considering that making money and staying in business is probably more important than some ideological motive like providing an alternative to Windows, it doesn't seem very shortsighted at all.

IBM still exists in spite of other companies cloning their computers for decades. It's Apple's "walled garden" business model that prevents their technology from proliferating even more than it does.

ratfink wrote:

Be interested to see the sales figures, do you have a link?

No but I saw it on a tech news sight about 5 years ago. Apple eclipsed Dell in annual computer sales for the first time.

Dominus wrote:

As I wrote before the exclusion is likely because there doesn't exist THE 3dfx rig. A C64 is a set of known hardware that makes […]
Show full quote

As I wrote before the exclusion is likely because there doesn't exist THE 3dfx rig. A C64 is a set of known hardware that makes up the computer. A 3dfx rig is a merger of parts which could ne anything. The exclusion is thus probably not intentional but stems from the authors angle. When one starts out with

Edit, hit the wrong button, continuing...

the article describing whole machines in retro computing it's understandable to miss retro parts.
And I think this distinction is right. IMO it would make sense to have a seperate article about "retro PC parts" or ecen better seperate articles about retro PC graphics cards and retro PC sound cards.
The important thing about the 3dfx rig is the 3dfx card, the other parts aren't that important (could be an AMD or intel CPU, amount of. RAm etc.) though the article should describe what's the best combination to avoid bottlenecks.

As I mentioned before, some people will disagree with a 3DFX rig being a retro rig, but fact of the matter is that it technically is. The fact that PC computers are so flexible compared to the non-PC compatible computers doesn't change a thing.

A 3DFX rig is more flexible, but it's a retrocomputer non the less and thus logical to be included. An article about "retro parts" could be combined into an article about collecting hardware, which again could include C64 and the likes as well as standard PC collecting (especially people collecting CPU's and graphics cards).

Actually, the fact that the non-PC's are much less flexible compared to PC's only makes things worse for them. It's not for no reason that Commodore, Tandy and all those other home computers were a flop and PC's became the dominant home computer. It's because the architecture, from a retrogamer and retrocomputer hobbyist, simply are inferior to the flexible design of PC hardware.
Some might not like it, but in the end it was the PC that kicked all the other architectures (except for Apple) into extinction and thus into the history books.
As time passes retrocomputing will be more and more about PC's, weather you like it or not 😜
You can write whatever you like in the wiki but as long as you can't change the dictionary, you can't stop PC's from becoming retro and vintage anywayz.

Retrocomputing and retrogames are a part of PC history and theres no going around that. The sooner the disgrunted old goats accept that, the easier it is for them.
And even if the disgrunted old goats go as far as to delete every mention about retro PC's in the wiki articles, time isn't on their side anyway, they can't stop the inclusion of retro PC's mentioned in the wiki forever 😜
If someone wishes to write another article about retro computer parts, go ahead and write one, but that's off-topic as far as I am concerned as this thread is about retrocomputing and retrogaming, not about retro hardware (go and write it if you want 🤣).

I give up, you just can't look beyond your small world, can you?

sliderider wrote:

ratfink wrote:

Be interested to see the sales figures, do you have a link?

No but I saw it on a tech news sight about 5 years ago. Apple eclipsed Dell in annual computer sales for the first time.

The actual data from Apple, announced today, is that they sold 3.95 million Macs in the last quarter. I don't know the numbers from the players in the Non-Mac field but if you really want that should be easy to look up. Sony, lenovo, dell, HP - these should be the relevant makers, right?

Dominus wrote:

I give up, you just can't look beyond your small world, can you?

That's your opinion, but calling my world "small" tells me more about your attitude towards people who differ in their opinion compared to your own. Thanks for giving me your feedback anyway, even though it wasn't that helpful.

Dominus wrote:

sliderider wrote:

ratfink wrote:

Be interested to see the sales figures, do you have a link?

No but I saw it on a tech news sight about 5 years ago. Apple eclipsed Dell in annual computer sales for the first time.

The actual data from Apple, announced today, is that they sold 3.95 million Macs in the last quarter. I don't know the numbers from the players in the Non-Mac field but if you really want that should be easy to look up. Sony, lenovo, dell, HP - these should be the relevant makers, right?

Here's a recent article showing the expected sales of the top computer makers by the end of 2011 and Apple comes out #2 behind only HP and not by a very big margin considering that Apples don't run the most popular OS natively. At the time of the article from several years ago that I mentioned earlier Dell was still the number 1 seller of PC's.

http://lowendmac.com/ed/fox/11ff/apple-number-2.html

The future projection chart shows Apple at 17.1 million sales by the end of 2011 and HP at 19.3 million. If Apple continues it's sales growth it shouldn't be more than a year or two before they leapfrog HP for the top spot.

sliderider wrote:

The future projection chart shows Apple at 17.1 million sales by the end of 2011 and HP at 19.3 million. If Apple continues it's sales growth it shouldn't be more than a year or two before they leapfrog HP for the top spot.

Hmm, funny that coincides with analysts' predictions that sales of Anusol are due to leapfrog within the next 2 years too....

sliderider wrote:

Jorpho wrote:

sliderider wrote:

And yet Apple still manages to sell more computers than any single PC manufacturer.

...

Steve Jobs was very shortsighted when he ditched the clone makers program when he returned to Apple.

Considering that making money and staying in business is probably more important than some ideological motive like providing an alternative to Windows, it doesn't seem very shortsighted at all.

IBM still exists in spite of other companies cloning their computers for decades.

Oh come on, seriously?! IBM no longer sells computers, or at least not to the sort of end-user regularly serviced by Apple, HP, Dell, and such forth. They sold that part of their business to Lenovo six years ago.

Tetrium wrote:

Dominus wrote:

I give up, you just can't look beyond your small world, can you?

That's your opinion, but calling my world "small" tells me more about your attitude towards people who differ in their opinion compared to your own. Thanks for giving me your feedback anyway, even though it wasn't that helpful.

Nah, that's my attitude to people who can't look outside of their small world and call other people's writing shit when it doesn't match their opinion.

sliderider wrote:

Here's a recent article showing the expected sales of the top computer makers by the end of 2011 and Apple comes out #2 behind o […]
Show full quote

Dominus wrote:

sliderider wrote:

No but I saw it on a tech news sight about 5 years ago. Apple eclipsed Dell in annual computer sales for the first time.

The actual data from Apple, announced today, is that they sold 3.95 million Macs in the last quarter. I don't know the numbers from the players in the Non-Mac field but if you really want that should be easy to look up. Sony, lenovo, dell, HP - these should be the relevant makers, right?

Here's a recent article showing the expected sales of the top computer makers by the end of 2011 and Apple comes out #2 behind only HP and not by a very big margin considering that Apples don't run the most popular OS natively. At the time of the article from several years ago that I mentioned earlier Dell was still the number 1 seller of PC's.

http://lowendmac.com/ed/fox/11ff/apple-number-2.html

The future projection chart shows Apple at 17.1 million sales by the end of 2011 and HP at 19.3 million. If Apple continues it's sales growth it shouldn't be more than a year or two before they leapfrog HP for the top spot.

Thanks for looking that up, your previous statement of apple selling the most computers didn't seem to be correct for me. This clears it up.

Hey they count tablet PCs as PCs 😀

Dominus wrote:

Nah, that's my attitude to people who can't look outside of their small world and call other people's writing shit when it doesn't match their opinion.

If you have more to add then go ahead and add to the discussion, but please keep it constructive instead of trying to throw up flamebait all over my thread.

I'm not sure why I have to bring this up again as I've been perfectly clear in previous posts, but if someone writes an article about retrocomputing and retrogaming, but doesn't even mention the PC which is by far the most used retrocomputer platform, I call it shit. It's shit because it's pretty dumb to have "accidentally" excluded it. If it's excluded on purpose (which seems more logical) then that is just petty.

Nah, I'll keep on posting things like this. When people who obviously can't be botherd to write better call articles dumb and shit, why should one not give them flames?
Why can't you write a better article? Afraid of being called dumb and shit?

*sigh* I wish the retro pc stuff would have been banned on a forum dedicated to running old games on modern hardware....

Dominus wrote:

sliderider wrote:

Here's a recent article showing the expected sales of the top computer makers by the end of 2011 and Apple comes out #2 behind o […]
Show full quote

Dominus wrote:

The actual data from Apple, announced today, is that they sold 3.95 million Macs in the last quarter. I don't know the numbers from the players in the Non-Mac field but if you really want that should be easy to look up. Sony, lenovo, dell, HP - these should be the relevant makers, right?

Here's a recent article showing the expected sales of the top computer makers by the end of 2011 and Apple comes out #2 behind only HP and not by a very big margin considering that Apples don't run the most popular OS natively. At the time of the article from several years ago that I mentioned earlier Dell was still the number 1 seller of PC's.

http://lowendmac.com/ed/fox/11ff/apple-number-2.html

The future projection chart shows Apple at 17.1 million sales by the end of 2011 and HP at 19.3 million. If Apple continues it's sales growth it shouldn't be more than a year or two before they leapfrog HP for the top spot.

Thanks for looking that up, your previous statement of apple selling the most computers didn't seem to be correct for me. This clears it up.

You'll notice in my previous post I said "5 years ago" and at that time it was true. Things can change in 5 years, like I think Acer bought out Gateway or Packard Bell or some other large company in that time period so their sales would have been added to Acers pushing them over Apple. The article I posts states that if Apple sells just 2 million more units, then they will be #1 over even HP and going into the Christmas season Apple tends to do extremely well historically, so we'll have to see how the positions change after Christmas sales are tallied. It's still impressive that only 1 or two companies selling Windows only machines can outsell a company that installs operating systems in their computers that are not considered mainstream. Hell, the iPad sales alone are even more impressive since iPhone OS is even less mainstream than OS X.

wd wrote:

Hey they count tablet PCs as PCs 😀

Why shouldn't they? If someone buys a tablet, that sale displaces the sale of a laptop or desktop computer. I'm sure HP will be counting sales of their Touchpad model once they have those numbers in.

If someone buys a tablet, that sale displaces the sale of a laptop or desktop computer.

I thought most people had those as gadgets, but that may be wrong.

You have to distinguish between the Tablet PCs (convertible laptops) and the Tablets (smallish, ipad, wepad...) 😀
Current Tablet PCs can replace a common laptop or a desktop computer

To me they at least look like they can't replace one, but well 🙁