VOGONS is no marketplace!

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VOGONS is no marketplace!

Postby Qbix » 2011-2-13 @ 21:35

Please stop with all those for sale and for trade topics.

Especially if things go wrong, then we can't do a thing to help you.

Use something like Ebay.

Thanks.
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Re: VOGONS is no marketplace!

Postby retro games 100 » 2011-2-13 @ 21:43

I think for sale and trade topics is a great idea.
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Re: VOGONS is no marketplace!

Postby shock__ » 2011-2-13 @ 21:54

While I can understand your point quite well, it's that I simply prefer to sell my stuff on here knowing it will end up in good hands, rather than eBay where they will most likely end up with someone having no clue or (as seen before) some a**hole relisting it asap for maximum profit when offering it for fair prices.

While I can live with not listing my stuff on here anymore, isn't there a chance to allow selling? I.e. using an own sub-forum with a sticky saying that all business is done on one's own risk?
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Re: VOGONS is no marketplace!

Postby dada » 2011-2-13 @ 22:12

Another forum I frequent had the same issue a while ago (except in our case it was about a drug discussion topic). The admins weren't too sure if they wanted people using a topic on their forum to do potentially dangerous things. Ultimately it was decided that using a specific topic was okay as long as people knew that the site's management had nothing to do with it and certainly wasn't going to be policing it, so it would have to be somewhat self-moderated.

Maybe that could work in this instance as well: tell people "hey, if you want to do this then fine, but we're not responsible and you must make deals at your own discretion".
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Re: VOGONS is no marketplace!

Postby keropi » 2011-2-13 @ 22:54

you are all welcome to use www.amibay.com , a free forum for private selling/looking/trading of amiga and retro systems in general :)
security is pretty good for a free forum and there are already a couple of thousands successful transactions
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Re: VOGONS is no marketplace!

Postby shock__ » 2011-2-14 @ 00:09

But amibay is way worse than ebay price-wise! Not to mention really focused on homecomputer stuff. Otherwise it's indeed a nice plattform and mods there usually are careful about people getting stuff on there for cheap only to resell it for a quick $$$
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Re: VOGONS is no marketplace!

Postby Tetrium » 2011-2-14 @ 01:19

I've noticed, in every single forum that's about hardware discussion, sooner or later people will start trading.
It's inevitable, but I agree it can also be risky.

So far I've done 2 trades with members on this forum (I was the buyer both times) and am perfectly happy with the way the transactions went :)

And as a buyer, I'd rather buy something from someone here for a fair price (and knowing when some piece of equipment has any problems) then having to gamble for something that might even be DOA.
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Re: VOGONS is no marketplace!

Postby Dominus » 2011-2-14 @ 02:01

Ultimately you will have to follow the moderators rules...
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Re: VOGONS is no marketplace!

Postby MrKsoft » 2011-2-14 @ 02:31

Make a subforum or something and specifically state that this site is not liable for any problems that occur. There's nowhere for me to get retro hardware locally and eBay is ungodly overpriced. I think it's a logical extension of the site if we have so much discussion about hardware.
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Re: VOGONS is no marketplace!

Postby Malik » 2011-2-14 @ 03:27

This is a bit tricky situation to handle. On one hand, we have to deal with those who wish to sell here, and on the other hand, our admins are not very happy about it, because, they are totally responsible for what's going on here.

This topic is bound to happen in any type of related forums.

Since this site primarily caters to helping out people having troubles with classic systems, discussions about old hardwares, troubleshooting classic systems, helping run (legitimate) games on old systems and via dosbox and so on, I think we ought to keep our focus that way.

And this forum is free from ads and have generally a clean look and feel to it. And our admins are maintaining that way.

I suggest putting a link in the signature to forward to a page like notes at google or yahoo, on which the items being sold can be listed. Those who are interested can contact the seller via a private message (pm).

On the other hand, if the admins are willing, they can open up the long dormant "Arcade" sub section and change the topic to "Trading" section.

Just a suggestion.

Personally, I prefer the "link in the signature" option. It will be cleaner, and we can still buy and sell without problems, and will not troiuble the administrators.

This is a wonderful site. Let's maintain it that way. :happy:
Last edited by Malik on 2011-2-14 @ 03:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VOGONS is no marketplace!

Postby Tetrium » 2011-2-14 @ 03:45

Malik wrote:This is a bit tricky situation to handle. On one hand, we have to deal with those who wish to sell here, and on the other hand, our admins are not very happy about it, because, they are totally responsible for what's going on here.

This topic is bound to happen in any type of related forums.

Since this site primarily caters to helping out people having troubles with classic systems, discussions about old hardwares, troubleshooting classic systems, helping run (legitimate) games on old systems and via dosbox and so on, I think we ought to keep our focus that way.

And this forum is free from ads and have generally a clean look and feel to it. And our admins are maintaining that way.

I suggest putting a link in the signature to forward to a page like notes at google or yahoo, on which the items being sold can be listed. Those who are interested can contact the seller via a private message (pm).

On the other hand, if the admins are willing, they can open up the long dormant "Arcade" sub section and change to topic to "Trading" section.

Just a suggestion.

Personally, I prefer the "link in the signature" option. It will be cleaner, and we can still buy and sell without problems, and will not troiuble the administrators.

This is a wonderful site. Let's maintain it that way. :happy:

Actually, I think you're right about this.

A WTS/WTB subforum would at least keep the rest of the forums clean of the WTS threads. They do clog up the forums.
I have noticed that the items being sold here are offered for a much lower price then commonly found on ebay.
I agree with one thing, Vogons would look a lot more ugly if it starts getting infested with WTS threads, and that may attract unwanted commercial sellers, which is the last thing we need here.

Last thing I want is a flood of commercial sellers spamming all the Vogons subforums with their overpriced junk.

Edit:I just made a very brief visit to that amibay site...
The sales part is full of people trying to sell their 44pin to IDE adapters and whatsnot...ugh!

Edit2:Maybe a sales "thread" visitable by a signature link would be the easiest? I don't know.
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Re: VOGONS is no marketplace!

Postby DonutKing » 2011-2-14 @ 04:04

I agree with Tetrium. I've bought from a seller here with no issues. I've bought many things off other forums and have been stung once to the tune of $250 but at the end of the day that's the risk you take and I just had to wear it. Didn't stop me buying/trading on forums.

Commercial sellers are pretty easy to deal with, just needs moderation. One forum I'm a member of has a 'no unopened/brand new items, no business sales' and you get your threads deleted for breaching this rule. Sure its extra work for the moderators but I'm sure there are plenty of people here who would put their hand up to do it, and I could probably name a couple of members who would do a good job of it too (not me I'm too fat/lazy)

I think a trade/sell section here is a great idea, I'd personally prefer to sell my old stuff to a community like this, for a fair price where I know it will be used and appreciated, rather than stick it up on ebay and deal with all the hassle. I don't think I need to mention the rampant price gouging on ebay.


For the record, its pretty easy to get scammed on ebay too, even if you use Paypal, and there's precious little you can do about it. I've been lucky not to have been stung but a friend of mine wasn't and lost about $700, ebay and paypal were totally disinterested and his bank couldn't get the money back either.
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Re: VOGONS is no marketplace!

Postby keropi » 2011-2-14 @ 07:24

shock__ wrote:But amibay is way worse than ebay price-wise! Not to mention really focused on homecomputer stuff. Otherwise it's indeed a nice plattform and mods there usually are careful about people getting stuff on there for cheap only to resell it for a quick $$$


LOL what? when did amibay went worse than eBay? Prices on amibay are 90% of the time way lower than ebay ones and fair. LOLprices are frowned in amibay... but OK you may not find there a 0.5eur vga and it might cost you 5eur for example, but stuff that go on eBay for hundrends you can get there on a fair price of 60-65% of ebay prices...
You are not limited to homecomputers, ppl sell and buy there anything from pc gear to 8bit consoles...
Anyway, I just mentioned it as a potential non-eBay selling place :money: anyone can have a look there , some ppl might like it :wink:
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Re: VOGONS is no marketplace!

Postby Dominus » 2011-2-14 @ 07:38

I don't think our moderators want to moderate a selling forum. Don't forget they are partly the devs of dosbox. They need to spend their time better than lokking whether a seller is a commercial one or not.
They will probably tend towards what Malik suggests.
This way people will still know that there is something but would leave Vogons free of the unwanted stuff.
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Re: VOGONS is no marketplace!

Postby Qbix » 2011-2-14 @ 08:18

Malik touches the core of the problem. It's not a (legal) responsibility that the site should have to carry. Waving it away with some sort of disclaimer, might help a bit, but I doubt that it will cover all cases.
So far the transactions have gone well. I think only one went wrong (that I know of).

I agree with the points that the stuff sold on vogons might have a more reasonably price, get a better home and such. However, as tempting as it might seem, vogons is not designed nor intended to handle sales and disputes.

edit: a way=>away
Last edited by Qbix on 2011-2-14 @ 09:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VOGONS is no marketplace!

Postby shock__ » 2011-2-14 @ 08:54

Agreed and understood :)
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Re: VOGONS is no marketplace!

Postby cdoublejj » 2011-2-14 @ 09:48

why not have disclaimer?!?!?! problem solved!!! if thats how it is then someone needs to make another Forum and link to it their sig.
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Re: VOGONS is no marketplace!

Postby wd » 2011-2-14 @ 11:04

Please people, this is not open for discussion, respect what Qbix asked for and don't turn this into an endless discussion.
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Re: VOGONS is no marketplace!

Postby dada » 2011-2-14 @ 11:08

Qbix wrote:Malik touches the core of the problem. It's not a (legal) responsibility that the site should have to carry. Waving it away with some sort of disclaimer, might help a bit, but I doubt that it will cover all cases.


A quick search revealed that the server that runs this forum is in Texas. I seriously doubt you're responsible for anything, especially if you add a disclaimer to the registration form that makes it a requirement to waive any claim to that extent.

It's been pretty well established in US legal precedent that for example eBay (which is a bit more dedicated to the whole buying/selling thing than Vogons) is not responsible for fake items.

That said, I can totally get why you don't want this to happen on the forum.

edit: I'm still a little confused though. Is this just a warning to people who might want to buy or sell something or is it now policy that these topics won't be allowed?
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Re: VOGONS is no marketplace!

Postby Tetrium » 2011-2-14 @ 13:12

dada wrote:edit: I'm still a little confused though. Is this just a warning to people who might want to buy or sell something or is it now policy that these topics won't be allowed?

Same. I don't understand where we stand now :confused:

Btw, whatever the rules will be, I'll stick to them.
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