Didn't realise this was still going! I haven't heard anything and just assumed there hasn't been any new progress? I ended up getting a different SB to get the CMS working 😀

tldr.... there's issues with cloning that 3rd chip? I thought all you had to do is buy this one specific chip and burn one with an EPROM burner then you're good to go?
I'll go read this thread later when I wake up if nobody is kind enough to give me cliff notes 😀

oh yeah... looking for a CT1350 myself 😉

TheMAN wrote:

tldr.... there's issues with cloning that 3rd chip? I thought all you had to do is buy this one specific chip and burn one with an EPROM burner then you're good to go?
I'll go read this thread later when I wake up if nobody is kind enough to give me cliff notes 😀

oh yeah... looking for a CT1350 myself 😉

In addition to the two Phillips SAA-1099 CMS chips, on an SB 2.0 you need to insert a third chip. The third chip originally was a Programmable Logic Array (PAL) which was included when Creative Labs sent you the CMS upgrade package. As its name implies, the PAL was programmed by CL ti allow the CMS chips to be interfaced with the rest of the board.

The logic programming inside the PAL was not designed to be user-accessible. While there was interest in fashioning a replacement, nothing concrete was done until Chuck(G) posted his method to extrapolate the logic programming from a PAL without having to decapsulate the chip. Someone sent the PAL on their SB 2.0 to Chuck(G) and he deduced the logic programming.

With the logic data in hand, you can burn that data into a Generic Logic Array chip (GAL). GAL is to PAL what EEPROM is to ROM. When users did just that, they found that their burned GALs worked fine in SB 2.0s marked as rev. 3 or rev. 4. Unfortunately, those GALs do not work reliably in SB 2.0s with no rev. labeling. There are a whole gamut of problems working, such as the CMS will not produce sound, the Adlib chip will not produce sound, the card will not work at all or even cause your system not to boot when the card with the chip is installed. That is where we are today, and no recent progress has been made on the so-called rev. 0 SB 2.0s.

ahhh I see.... so I guess value of the CT1350 rev 3 and 4s will go up!
somebody please sell me one! 😊

I believe the problem with the Rev 0 cards stems from the fact that Chuck(G) used National Semiconductor brand GAL chips while I was using Lattice chips. There seems to be some idiosyncrasy with the Lattice chips that stops them working on the Rev 0 cards, but the same JED file on a Lattice GAL, on rev 3/4 cards works fine.

The Lattice GALs are sold fairly cheap from Futurlec while I can't find any source on the internet for the NS brand chips (at least not for any reasonable price in the low quantities I'm using).

looked on ebay yet? 😉
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GAL16V8-25LNC-NSC-20- … 1215#vi-content

Yes, and $5 each is more than I'm willing to pay (The lattice chips are 85 cents each at Futurlec)

thanks for the replies my friends!!!

DK, do you think that these NS chips might work? I wanna take a chance, I can paypal you the $$$ to get a couple and send one to me...? 😀

It'll cost about $30 AUD if you wanted two chips - $18 to buy the chips and ship them to me, I'll program them for free, and about $13 in for international shipping from me to you.

I'm not really keen to buy a batch of them myself, as I've still got about 15 Lattice GALs that nobody seems to want 😜

So if that sounds OK to you then I'm happy to go ahead with it. Keep in mind that you can get a G540 USB programmer off ebay for less than $50 AUD delivered, and program them yourself...

oh yeah damned post.... for 30$ I can probably get a non-rev0 card and use the chips I already have... did not think this through very well it seems... 😀

$30, where?????

Can anyone tell be the difference between CT1350 ,A , B, and the different revisions ?

I am asking this because i have bought a 1350B (it should arrive in a few days) and i am curious about the differences .

memsys wrote:

Can anyone tell be the difference between CT1350 ,A , B, and the different revisions ?

I am asking this because i have bought a 1350B (it should arrive in a few days) and i am curious about the differences .

I'd be quite surprised if there are any major differences...

Well apparently the changes are large enough that the GAL chip wont work.

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

Yea I can't tell any difference either... […]
Show full quote

Yea I can't tell any difference either...

I looked at the frequency spectrum and no sign of any filter...

Thanks for the recordings!

Funny how this SB 2.0 CMS project has finally come to an end. For years people have speculated and wished to duplicate this chip and now it's done...

That's how it usually works. You get excited about something for years and then when it's finally done, it's like, Meh! Kinda like Duke Nukem Forever.

memsys wrote:

Well apparently the changes are large enough that the GAL chip wont work.

Of course, we know that!

I thought your questions was going down the path of "what am I missing out in getting another revision of the SB 2.0". Like in terms of how it sounds.

sliderider wrote:

That's how it usually works. You get excited about something for years and then when it's finally done, it's like, Meh! Kinda like Duke Nukem Forever.

So true!

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

memsys wrote:

Well apparently the changes are large enough that the GAL chip wont work.

Of course, we know that!

I thought your questions was going down the path of "what am I missing out in getting another revision of the SB 2.0". Like in terms of how it sounds.

Well i was asking it in that way but i was also wondering why the GAL does not work in a rev0 card .

DonutKing wrote:

It'll cost about $30 AUD if you wanted two chips - $18 to buy the chips and ship them to me, I'll program them for free, and about $13 in for international shipping from me to you.

I'm not really keen to buy a batch of them myself, as I've still got about 15 Lattice GALs that nobody seems to want 😜

So if that sounds OK to you then I'm happy to go ahead with it. Keep in mind that you can get a G540 USB programmer off ebay for less than $50 AUD delivered, and program them yourself...

The Lattice GALs work with CT1350B?
I've a CT1350B and search for a way to get CMS-Support on it 😀 could I buy one from you?

don't forget the link I posted to the national semiconductor chips 😉

fire-phoenix-fire wrote:

The Lattice GALs work with CT1350B?
I've a CT1350B and search for a way to get CMS-Support on it 😀 could I buy one from you?

Please see this thread:

http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?t=23978&page=3

As stated, the Lattice chips with work with CT1350 rev 2, 3, 4 only. If your card doesn't have a revision number they won't work.

Price is $15 including international shipping for 1 of these GAL chips, (you will need to surce the two SAA1099P chips yourself)

The NS GAL chips supposedly work with the cards with no revision number but as stated above they will be significantly more expensive, since I'll need to buy them and pay for shipping, before programming and sending to you.