Malik wrote:

I use the Live!'s optical out cable from the live! drive to the receiver. In the receiver I select auto mode and if the receiver […]
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Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Malik wrote:

It's a discreet 7.1 analog. Digital Optical connections are attached and switchable. DVD movies make use of the optical out via the DVD software to make use of the digital decoding. My PII connects via the Live! Drive's optical out in Windows 95 and the analog stereo for the dos audio.

Isn't Live! 5.1 only? If you connect it to a 7.1 receiver (like Marantz SR-5002), then a pair of input jacks would be empty. Does the receiver capable to upmix 5.1 to 7.1?

I use the Live!'s optical out cable from the live! drive to the receiver. In the receiver I select auto mode and if the receiver receives signals that are Dolby encoded, it will automatically change the mode to that like DTS, ProLogic II, etc. Else, it will default to stereo mode. But I can still set the mode manually to one of the surround modes. If so, then the stereo signal will be upmixed accordingly.

The PII system has also the AWE64 Gold which connects to the receiver digitally via the coaxial cable, in addition to the analog stereo connection. The beauty of receivers are apparent when you can connect so many outputs from so many systems...

Yes, this receiver can upmix audio to 7.1, even from analog stereo inputs. (Or choose one of the modes - stereo, one of the Dolby modes, virtual sutround or auto...)

I see. As far as music goes, how do you like 7.1 music, by the way? I always wonder, some people seem to hate it.

Up until recently I was using the Harmon Kardon HK 395 Dell 2.1 which a flat mate gave me for free

Not bad sound for what they are. (Dell OEM option) Much better then the cheap crap I had in Australia in the early 2000's
Still used on anything that cant use 5.1

Couple of months ago I got the Logitech z5500's. I Wanted a 5.1 setup the supported I could use for both my Audigy 2 ZS and original xbox and could handle all the THX/Dolby/EAX or anything else that these systems might try and throw at it.

It is a bit boomish especially in my very small room in a shared flat. Sub's usually set to 1.5 And they are better then the later models, but a lot cheaper it you are looking for THX certified speakers.
My flat mates are ok with it, downstairs doesn't mind music/tv but Need for Speed gets them banging on their ceiling 😊

Till I properly settle down I don't want to go to expensive or big

I'm using the Logitech Z623 Speakers 2.1 THX Certified on my new computer.

Built for quality and they really sound great. Extremely bass heavy.
I would definitely endorse these speakers but they will never compare to a modest 5.1 setup with a good quality receiver.

rgart wrote:

I'm using the Logitech Z623 Speakers 2.1 THX Certified on my new computer.

Built for quality and they really sound great. Extremely bass heavy but it will never compare to a modest 5.1 setup with a good quality receiver.

Do you mostly listen to music or watch movie?

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

rgart wrote:

I'm using the Logitech Z623 Speakers 2.1 THX Certified on my new computer.

Built for quality and they really sound great. Extremely bass heavy but it will never compare to a modest 5.1 setup with a good quality receiver.

Do you mostly listen to music or watch movie?

I have a home theatre setup for movies.

I'm using the Logitech's for Gaming, MP3s, Youtube and generally small mp4 clips (Video capture on games etc)

I would have probably been better off going with Soundsticks or Harmon Kardon speakers but I cant complain 😀

The bass on these things is kind of crazy and has no distortion.
High and low range is reasonable.

rgart wrote:

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

rgart wrote:

I'm using the Logitech Z623 Speakers 2.1 THX Certified on my new computer.

Built for quality and they really sound great. Extremely bass heavy but it will never compare to a modest 5.1 setup with a good quality receiver.

Do you mostly listen to music or watch movie?

I have a home theatre setup for movies.

I'm using the Logitech's for Gaming, MP3s, Youtube and generally small mp4 clips (Video capture on games etc)

I see, no wonder you prefer 5.1 setup.

The Logitech has thumpy bass indeed, but they're not very musical IMO. The top is rolled while the mid is not very clear.

rgart wrote:

I would have probably been better off going with Soundsticks or Harmon Kardon speakers but I cant complain 😀

How about this one?

Fostex PM641 studio monitors
frequency response: 55 Hz – 25 kHz
woofers: 6.5" cone
mid ranges: 4" cone
tweeters: 0.75" soft dome

Not really TOTL model, but nice, affordable monitors. The top is pretty good at 25 kHz, and while the bottom is not much to brag about (55 Hz), any Velodyne or Rhytmik sub should complement the speakers fine. Also, each driver is powered independently (woofer: 50 watts, squawker: 18 watts, tweeters: 18 watts), so you have tri-amping out of the box.

Also, it's soft dome tweeters. I assume you're already used to Logitech sound, so titanium or beryllium dome tweeters may sound too "analytical" or even "harsh" if you're not used to it. Soft domes, on the other hand, sound "smoother" - though not as detailed.

On the other hand, If you still prefer bass over anything else, vintage AR should work fine. This might be your dream speakers.

Your such an audiophille Kreshna 😀

I was actually looking at a pair of Fostex speakers for this PC....my budget was around $150
These are the first Logitech speakers I have ever owned. I admit I neglected the speaker choice a bit because I was more concerned about CPU, GPU and other bits and pieces 😀
I'm not a huge fan of over the top bass at all. I keep the knob on these Logitech at about 1/2 to 1/3. It can really shake the brick and plaster walls like crazy.

Have you ever used the Alessandro MS1 headphones? whats your opinion on them?

rgart wrote:

Your such an audiophille Kreshna 😀

Thanks. 😀

It's kinda funny though; audio was actually one of my early hobbies. When I was kid, dad donated me one of his previous systems - a Marantz integrated amp and a pair of vintage speakers - then taught me quite a lot about audio. One of my favorite readings at that time is dad's audio catalogues.

But then I was introduced to IBM PC, and the rest is history...

rgart wrote:

I was actually looking at a pair of Fostex speakers for this PC....my budget was around $150

Good luck!

rgart wrote:

These are the first Logitech speakers I have ever owned. I admit I neglected the speaker choice a bit because I was more concerned about CPU, GPU and other bits and pieces 😀
I'm not a huge fan of over the top bass at all. I keep the knob on these Logitech at about 1/2 to 1/3. It can really shake the brick and plaster walls like crazy.

Logitech is good for what they're designed for; that is, producing solid boom-booms during gaming session.

rgart wrote:

Have you ever used the Alessandro MS1 headphones? whats your opinion on them?

Er... no. I'm not really into headphones (except when I'm DJing). For everyday listening, I generally avoid them. Maybe I'm just paranoid, or maybe I've just read too much about hearing damages caused by headphones.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

rgart wrote:

These are the first Logitech speakers I have ever owned. I admit I neglected the speaker choice a bit because I was more concerned about CPU, GPU and other bits and pieces 😀
I'm not a huge fan of over the top bass at all. I keep the knob on these Logitech at about 1/2 to 1/3. It can really shake the brick and plaster walls like crazy.

Logitech is good for what they're designed for; that is, producing solid boom-booms during gaming session.

I've heard many Logitech and similar PC speakers and all were equally bad. PC speakers are okay if you're not too demanding, of course, but what annoys me is that these sets are being marketed to the "demanding" PC users. If you're willing to spend €100-500 on computer speakers, you're just much better off getting a vintage 70's hi-fi set or some modern studio monitors.
Some might argue "yeah but that's not 5.1 dolby thx dts surround!!1". Well, most people I know only have two ears, actually. If surround sound is what you're after, you can get far better results using quality headphones and a good HRTF algorithm.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

rgart wrote:

Have you ever used the Alessandro MS1 headphones? whats your opinion on them?

Er... no. I'm not really into headphones (except when I'm DJing). For everyday listening, I generally avoid them. Maybe I'm just paranoid, or maybe I've just read too much about hearing damages caused by headphones.

That's what the volume knob is for, right? 😀 I'm pretty sure my speaker set turned up to eleven would damage my ears more easily than any headphones could ever do..

On the topic of headphones, I had the chance to buy a pair of Stax SR-Lambda Pro electrostatics a while ago. If you google these the first thing you'll see is "The Stax SR-Lambda Pro is the best headphone I have ever heard". Any everyone seems to agree with that.
I tried them for an hour or so, but when compared side-by-side to my current headphones, the difference was much smaller than I expected. Practically non-existent. They'd go a bit louder without distorting and were just slightly more detailed in the high-freq range. "Just slighty". That might mean either my current headphones are VERY good, these Stax cans were just worn down, or my ears are really bad. Not sure.
Anyway they were only €50, and now that I see what these go for on ebay... I feel pretty stupid for not getting them after all.

jwt27 wrote:

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

rgart wrote:

These are the first Logitech speakers I have ever owned. I admit I neglected the speaker choice a bit because I was more concerned about CPU, GPU and other bits and pieces 😀
I'm not a huge fan of over the top bass at all. I keep the knob on these Logitech at about 1/2 to 1/3. It can really shake the brick and plaster walls like crazy.

Logitech is good for what they're designed for; that is, producing solid boom-booms during gaming session.

I've heard many Logitech and similar PC speakers and all were equally bad.

Er, not really. It should be noted I was writing in the context of multimedia speakers, though. 😉

jwt27 wrote:

PC speakers are okay if you're not too demanding, of course, but what annoys me is that these sets are being marketed to the "demanding" PC users. If you're willing to spend €100-500 on computer speakers, you're just much better off getting a vintage 70's hi-fi set or some modern studio monitors.

Certain vintage stuff cost a lot more than €500 though. Although yes, generally you're right. The 120Tis, for example, only cost me US $500. Don't know how much it'll cost to cosmetically restore them though. 😁

jwt27 wrote:

Some might argue "yeah but that's not 5.1 dolby thx dts surround!!1". Well, most people I know only have two ears, actually. If surround sound is what you're after, you can get far better results using quality headphones and a good HRTF algorithm.

Or modern 5.1 receiver driving vintage speakers. 😉

Seriously though, multimedia speakers seem to be on the bottom of the food chain. You can buy cheap Onkyo HT receiver and small Wharfedale Diamonds loudspeakers, and the setup will still sound better than any multimedia speakers.

jwt27 wrote:

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

rgart wrote:

Have you ever used the Alessandro MS1 headphones? whats your opinion on them?

Er... no. I'm not really into headphones (except when I'm DJing). For everyday listening, I generally avoid them. Maybe I'm just paranoid, or maybe I've just read too much about hearing damages caused by headphones.

That's what the volume knob is for, right? 😀 I'm pretty sure my speaker set turned up to eleven would damage my ears more easily than any headphones could ever do..

I know, but all things being equal - including volume level, I found myself fatigued sooner when listening to headphone than loudspeakers. 🙁

Anyway, does anyone use external DAC for music listening?

Also, does anyone use dipole speakers with their computers?

The Alessandro MS1 Headphones are something else. I've never heard anything like them for music and games. That said I've never played COD or MWF or BF4 etc. So I have no idea how it would perform as a head set. I use them on my retro computers/laptop/current PC. I remember playing Quest for Glory 5 using them and I have never heard anything like it before. Amazing Clarity and Clearness with a real punch. They will make you weep.

About the Logitech Z623. I think they perform very well for computer speakers.
I little too bass heavy but the medium and high range sounds reasonable to me.
They sound very different to what I am used to. I have been using a pair of Yamaha PC speakers for a long time.

If your really serious about your music you'd probably NOT want to go with the Logitech Z623 and instead go with something more appropriate.

All In all I'd rate the Logitech Z623 a 7 out of 10 because the sound while good does not have a wow factor for me.
The Alessandro MS1 Headphones are a solid 9 out of 10
Onkyo 608 Receiver a solid 9 out of 10.
Accusound 5.1 setup (so called damaged carton) from EBAY a solid 8.5 out of 10.

Can't help you Kreshna! I don't use an external DAC and don't use dipole speakers for computer.

rgart wrote:

Can't help you Kreshna! I don't use an external DAC and don't use dipole speakers for computer.

Dipoles sound more "airy", they "disappear" better than conventional, boxed speakers, so I guess they're suitable for gaming purpose.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

jwt27 wrote:

I've heard many Logitech and similar PC speakers and all were equally bad.

Er, not really. It should be noted I was writing in the context of multimedia speakers, though. 😉

Well, I haven't heard every PC speaker set out there, of course. But I think it is safe to say that, generally speaking, the price/quality ratio on computer speakers is bad. You simply don't get what you pay for.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

jwt27 wrote:

PC speakers are okay if you're not too demanding, of course, but what annoys me is that these sets are being marketed to the "demanding" PC users. If you're willing to spend €100-500 on computer speakers, you're just much better off getting a vintage 70's hi-fi set or some modern studio monitors.

Certain vintage stuff cost a lot more than €500 though. Although yes, generally you're right. The 120Tis, for example, only cost me US $500. Don't know how much it'll cost to cosmetically restore them though. 😁

The best of the best is always expensive. However low-end vintage speakers often still perform better than modern mid-range speakers, in my experience. My own gear is far from high-end but I do like it better than any plastic set I've heard so far. The Bose speakers I got (for free, ahem) seem to go for about €80-150 per set on ebay, add a sufficiently powerful amp (let's say €50-100) and they'll definitely outperform any multimedia or home theatre set in that price range.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Or modern 5.1 receiver driving vintage speakers. 😉

My point was, that I don't really see the point of a surround set. For good surround sound you just can't beat headphones, since as I said, you only have two ears.
I must say though, a friend of mine has a very nice 4-channel surround set from 1975 (4x JVC 5331 driven by a JVC 4VN-990 amp). It looks and sounds quite impressive, but the whole surround thing is still quite pointless, in my opinion. I think, the more speakers you have, the more difficult it is to get accurate surround sound, since its impossible to get the phase response from all speakers right in every listening position.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

I know, but all things being equal - including volume level, I found myself fatigued sooner when listening to headphone than loudspeakers. 🙁

Are you comparing with closed headphones, by any chance? If so, I would really recommend you to try some good open cans.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Also, does anyone use dipole speakers with their computers?

I've been thinking of building my own speakers for a long time... If I ever get around to that, I would either build dipoles or some other unusual setup like this. I think this design comes pretty close to a true point-source speaker.

I guess I'm really not picky about my my audio. Most of the time, I use Lenntek Sonix earbuds. They have proved to be a good jack-of-all-trades.

Lately, though, I've been playing with these a bit:

A really fun little speaker set! They don't get too loud, but the sound quality is incredible. They put the average multimedia speaker set to shame. Also, the subwoofer unit contains a lithium ion battery, so you can run them for hours with no cord. Very handy.

Has anyone tried Harman Kardon SoundSticks III ? They look purdy if nothing else:

I've used the sound sticks and they not only look great but also pack a real punch. Excellent for mp3 play back and quite portable.

I'm quietly regretting I didn't get them over the logi speakers 😀

I use these in my man cave / time-machine room: http://au.creative.com/p/speakers/gigaworks-t40-series-ii

I use a 4 channel Stereo mixer to mix MT-32 (Old), CM-32L, SC-55 and a Sound Blaster. One output goes into my capture compute with a X-Fi Titanium HD and another output goes into the Gigaworks speakers).

I specifically wanted 2.0 speakers to replicate that retro sound. IMO a sub changes the sound and makes it sound too modern. The pack quite a punch and are of quite good quality. They also look very good with the covers removed...

jwt27 wrote:

I've been thinking of building my own speakers for a long time... If I ever get around to that, I would either build dipoles or some other unusual setup like this. I think this design comes pretty close to a true point-source speaker.

Interesting. Unfortunately I don't understand the language. Could you elaborate?

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

IMO a sub changes the sound

Not necessarily so. The job of a sub is to extend the low frequency response of a system instead of changing the sound. A good sub - just as any other components in your audio chain - preserves the fidelity of the sound being played instead of changing it.

Here's my hand-drawings to illustrate the point. They're crude, and they're not necessarily to scale with each other, but I hope they're sufficient.

Below is the frequency response curve of system' consists of mains only, ie, no sub. As you see, bass starts to roll off at certain frequency. It happens to all speakers - including subs (subs are nothing but speakers, really. They're merely specialized speakers). My JBL 120Tis, for example, start to roll at 60 Hz (approximately).

A system's frequency response curve without sub, ie, mains only.

Now, what if I want to play some Tibetan horn instrument that extends well below 60 Hz? Since my speakers start rolling off at 60 Hz, then the horn instrument will sound weaker than it does in reality. As such, the fidelity of the reproduced sound becomes reduced.

To solve the problem, I add a sub to my system.

A system's frequency response curve with a properly tuned sub.

The sub's frequency response curve is red, while the mains' is blue. As you see from the picture above, the sub does not make the bass any louder. It only makes it deeper. The system's frequency response curve is still flat; ie, the low frequency spectrum doesn't go any louder than the remaining part.

Why can a sub "change" the sound then? Many multimedia speakers (and cheap HT packages) come with fake sub that produced fake bass. Yes, it's thumpy and boomy, but is it high-fidelity? Sometimes, such "sub" merely play mid-low frequencies louder to give false impression of strong bass - instead of going deeper.

But good subwoofer can also change the sound - therefore reducing fidelity - if tuned improperly. For example, when you increase the sub's volume control to make the sub sound louder than the mains. That way, the fidelity is reduced, because the system's frequency response curve is not flat anymore.

A system's frequency response curve with an improperly tuned sub.

Hope it helps. 😀

A friend of mine has the "sticks". I don't know if they're the 3rd version though, probably something a little older, possibly 2nd version.
Anyway, they are quite good, but at the time that he bought them I just couldn't really justify their price compared to my set for example. It just seemed a bit too much. He's not even an audiophile or anything, just likes to buy expensive stuff thinking it is always the best option 😜

I can recall a few noise complaints a couple of years ago that involved sound sticks II speakers. They are extremely clear even at very high volumes pool side 😀

I was not the complainant or complainee 😀