So nothing new in that graph really:

- Vista had trouble attracting people off XP whereas the later, better 7 was more fortunate.

- 8 is having a similar hard time because it's competing against the great and still-pretty-new 7 [those already on 7 don't care to move to 8] and probably die-hards and low-specs running XP [and also business behemoths belatedly still shifting to 7]. Plus PC sales are relatively stagnant [aren't they?] which will limit penetration-through-turnover of the PC stock.

I think an interesting question is what Microsoft genuinely expected to happen. Because I think these graphs were reasonably foreseeable but at the same time I think they decided they had to release 8 in the form it's taken due to market trends. What will they do next I wonder.

ratfink wrote:

So nothing new in that graph really:

- Vista had trouble attracting people off XP whereas the later, better 7 was more fortunate.

- 8 is having a similar hard time because it's competing against the great and still-pretty-new 7 [those already on 7 don't care to move to 8] and probably die-hards and low-specs running XP [and also business behemoths belatedly still shifting to 7]. Plus PC sales are relatively stagnant [aren't they?] which will limit penetration-through-turnover of the PC stock.

Tick and tick! 😀

PC sales are shrinking pretty steadily, almost 1:1 with the growth of tablets. Seems like it's a bad time for MS to release an OS at all, let alone one so exotic, or dare I say ambitious.

ratfink wrote:

I think an interesting question is what Microsoft genuinely expected to happen. Because I think these graphs were reasonably foreseeable but at the same time I think they decided they had to release 8 in the form it's taken due to market trends. What will they do next I wonder.

It won't be a kneejerk reaction to the mouth-foamers. I think there'll probably be a release that finetunes Win8, like 7 did for Vista. They'll probably come to the table with some compromises on the pervasiveness of the touch interface, while still putting emphasis on it as the way forward.

Well, I have been using 8 since the official release and so far it's been quite a nice experience. I dare to say that even DosBox runs better on 8 than it did on 7, maybe because MS made a huge clean-up on its kernel.

http://www.winbeta.org/news/bank-america-thin … lenges-optimism

"... Now, six months post launch, despite more available touch-based devices, Win 8 lacks momentum, challenging our optimism ..."

Bank of America has lowered its rating on Microsoft from "Buy" to "Neutral" and this change is made after nearly five years of the banking company held a rating of "Buy" on Microsoft.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/10/technology/pc … .html?hpt=hp_t2

"... the Windows 8 launch not only failed to provide a positive boost to the PC market, but appears to have slowed the market ..."

http://allthingsd.com/20130411/how-bad-is-the … count-the-ways/

“... We frankly believe Microsoft’s strategy of forcing user interface changes that nobody wants has proven to be a disaster ...”

I'm not sure what's going on at MS, but I get the impression they totally ignore customer feedback. Windows 8 and now rumours about the next Xbox requiring an always-on Internet connection AND motion/webcam thingy.

If Windows 8 had a dedicated Desktop mode (look and feel like W7), I would have upgraded all my machines. Staying with W7 for the time being because I believe that sooner or later they will respond.

I agree with you Mau1wurf1977, specially now that we know that Windows 8.x (Blue or whatever) will continue on the same trend.

I'm also staying with Windows 7 for the time being. We'll probably know a lot more about Windows Blue in 2-3 months. Patience 😁.

I don't care if 8 is faster and handles hardware so much better if it's a clasterfawk
I'll stick with 7 which does everything I need atm

A little off topic but one of my biggest windows pet peeves is the whole UAC/users/permissions aspect. I'd love the option to uninstall all of it on my home/personal rig. This layer of business-style, multi-user, security minded hierarchy has no place on my weekend hot rod..

You CAN turn it off. At least most of the intruding parts.

I know, I have UAC turned off - I just dislike the whole concept of permissions and "users" and would love all app related data and personal settings in one spot - and no mention or reference to UAC/Users/Permissions/Admin mode etc. That's all....

Actually is there a way of melding the user folder [user]/[public]/[default] into one?

UAC is there to protect people from most malware infections... it works and has cut down a lot of infections

tincup wrote:

Actually is there a way of melding the user folder [user]/[public]/[default] into one?

I think only [user] is used. [public] and [default] are not used for anything unless you want to use them i guess but you don't want to so they are not using themselves. And dont use user too, make your own folders. only default stuff will land in user.

Well,, I was surprised to find certain games and programs do store saves and settings in the public docs folder by default - I have about 12 things I can't redirect right now.

One consequence of the 'users' model that bugs me is there are are at least 2 repositories for what goes in the Start Menu:

users/user/appdata/roaming/microsoft/windows/start menu... ["User" stuff]
programdata/microsoft/windows/start menu... ["All Users" stuff]

I haven't been able to consolidate the contents of both into a single location yet [if it's possible at all], so right-clicking Start/All Programs/"open all users" still presents a different group of items than if you navigate to the All users section in ProgramData.

I like the arrangement of the Start Menu to be "just so" and find the current arrangement unnecessarily fussy and ineffective. Someone say OCD? 😀

ok, i confused it a bit. Anyway here is how it is. Notice that it was almost like that from the beginning since win9x and all that shit and more were just scattered all over main windows directory. There were also spaces in folder names.

Win9x
C:\Windows\All Users\Application Data\
C:\My Documents\
C:\Windows\Application Data\
C:\Windows\Local Settings\Application Data\
C:\My Documents\

WinXP
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Applications data\
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents\
C:\Documents and Settings\User\Applications data\
C:\Documents and Settings\User\local settings\Applications data\
C:\Documents and Settings\User\Documents\

WinVista/7
C:\ProgramData\
C:\Users\Public\Documents\
C:\Users\User\AppData\Roaming\
C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\
C:\Users\User\Documents\

In my opinion it should look this way to be more clear:
C:\Users\Public\AppData\
C:\Users\Public\Documents\
C:\Users\User\AppData\Roaming\
C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\
C:\Users\User\Documents\

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

I'm not sure what's going on at MS, but I get the impression they totally ignore customer feedback. Windows 8 and now rumours about the next Xbox requiring an always-on Internet connection AND motion/webcam thingy.

If Windows 8 had a dedicated Desktop mode (look and feel like W7), I would have upgraded all my machines. Staying with W7 for the time being because I believe that sooner or later they will respond.

It looks like I'll be sitting out this next round of consoles, then. The Wii U controller looks horrible and the graphics still aren't up to par XBox being rumored to put the used game market to rest gives me no incentive whatsoever to buy either of them. The move by all the consoles towards digital distribution also turns me off.

SquallStrife wrote:

Tick and tick! :) […]
Show full quote

ratfink wrote:

So nothing new in that graph really:

- Vista had trouble attracting people off XP whereas the later, better 7 was more fortunate.

- 8 is having a similar hard time because it's competing against the great and still-pretty-new 7 [those already on 7 don't care to move to 8] and probably die-hards and low-specs running XP [and also business behemoths belatedly still shifting to 7]. Plus PC sales are relatively stagnant [aren't they?] which will limit penetration-through-turnover of the PC stock.

Tick and tick! 😀

PC sales are shrinking pretty steadily, almost 1:1 with the growth of tablets. Seems like it's a bad time for MS to release an OS at all, let alone one so exotic, or dare I say ambitious.

ratfink wrote:

I think an interesting question is what Microsoft genuinely expected to happen. Because I think these graphs were reasonably foreseeable but at the same time I think they decided they had to release 8 in the form it's taken due to market trends. What will they do next I wonder.

It won't be a kneejerk reaction to the mouth-foamers. I think there'll probably be a release that finetunes Win8, like 7 did for Vista. They'll probably come to the table with some compromises on the pervasiveness of the touch interface, while still putting emphasis on it as the way forward.

PC sales are not shrinking as much as you seem to have been brainwashed into thinking.

Here's another perspective:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/ … _just_fine.html

PC sales suffered their steepest decline in history last quarter, plummeting 14 percent worldwide, according to a report from market research firm IDC.

The reason people aren’t buying new PCs isn’t that they don’t need a PC. It’s that, for the most part, they’re getting along just fine with the one they already have.

a strategic shift by Microsoft in recent years has meant that you no longer need to buy a new machine in order to take advantage of each new operating system

Personally I want to see more than a quarter's data from someone I never heard of before jumping to conclusions, but the line on MS and retention of older kit sounds plausible.

sliderider wrote:

PC sales are not shrinking as much as you seem to have been brainwashed into thinking.

Oh?

http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/339682,the … ecord-lows.aspx

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100632129

http://news.yahoo.com/quarterly-personal-comp … 8--finance.html

The rest of the world seems to disagree. The hubris in this thread is astounding.

The use of phrases like "record lows" and "steep decline" should give you some indication that maybe I'm not as far off the mark as you're so seemingly desperate to believe.

Windows 8 being more of a miss than a hit is just compounding an existing trend. That is the trend away from sitting at a desk to consume content.

robertmo wrote:

.... WinVista/7 C:\ProgramData\ C:\Users\Public\Documents\ C:\Users\User\AppData\Roaming\ C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\ C:\Users\ […]
Show full quote

....
WinVista/7
C:\ProgramData\
C:\Users\Public\Documents\
C:\Users\User\AppData\Roaming\
C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\
C:\Users\User\Documents\
...

Nice roundup. What I'd like to see:

C:\ProgramData\ [only program related settings]
then USER generated settings/setups
C:\USER\Start
C:\USER\Favorites
etc.

No PUBLIC, and no USERS\USER, just USER, and no distinction between "all users" and "user". During OS install I'd love to get prompted with "Is this installation just for you, or will others be using it"...

And it sure would be nice if games saved all settings\configs\savegames IN THE GAME folder!

I'd dispense with the stock data management folders like My Docs, My Music etc. as I try to get ALL data off C:. In theory these folders can be re-located but in practice I always find straggler games/apps that drop stuff in C:\users regardless.

I want the option to strip windows down, no just to remove bloat which is always an issue, but to simplify the schematic layout to suit my needs. The PC I want to drive is more like a 1967 Lotus 49 rather than a loaded/bloated Ford Explorer..