Always hated the user, public, etc.etc., when I'm the only user for the past 2 decades of using the so called modern OS user account-design.

Such options should only be reserved for servers and company workstations. But then again, modern consumer OS is as powerful as the aforementioned servers.

I guess I just have to sail along.

SquallStrife wrote:

The only reason the industry goes where it does is because of market demand.

Unfortunately, that's not always the case. Many users left with no choice but moving to newer Windows version, because many PC vendors (especially laptop vendors) do not provide drivers for previous version anymore. So this is the case where the industry drives the market through sheer power - monopolistic or otherwise - instead of industry listening to what consumer want.

I still remember buying new laptop for my mother, and we went to Lenovo because they still had a lot of models with Windows XP drivers, so she can use Windows XP on her new laptop. And it happened during mid-2012.

She is reluctant to use Windows 7 because she doesn't want to re-learn Office 2007 interface. She's been using MS Office since Office 97, and she's been moving to Office XP to Office 2003 without problems. Yet, Office 2007 interface confuses her to hell.

(and to be frank, Office 2007 interface confuses me to hell too.)

Is there really demand for Office 2007 interface? Do the consumers really want to re-learn a radically different interface? I really doubt so. This video is an example of user's struggle to do things on the new Office - the same things they used to do easily on the previous Office versions.

To be fair, newer Windows versions have their own advantages - better multithreading support, larger RAM support, etcetera. But can they just improve the insides without breaking the interface? At least Windows 7 doesn't require much re-learning (except the Office part), but Windows 8 is just plain ridiculous.

Using car analogy, I believe there is demand for better, more fuel-efficient engines. But is there really demand for radical changes in dashboard and steering wheel that requires the driver to retake the driving license test? Is there demand for new gearstick placement that actually makes us harder to drive?

Let's take a look at DRM for a different example. Is there really market demand for DRM? Did EA shove DRM into SimCity because the consumers want it? That should be another example that the industry isn't necessarily driven by demands. Sometimes - and probably most of the time, if they have sufficient power - they just shove unwanted features into the market because they believe it would maximize their profit. Of course, backlash happens sometimes. Whether the backlash is strong enough to teach the industry a lesson is another thing.

SquallStrife wrote:

There is demand for tablets and smartphones, the industry is only responding to that.

Of course there is, but is there demand for tablet interface on desktop? Touch screen for productivity application?

Anyway, while we're at it, how to upload PDF into Vogons Drivers? There is a "manual" section, but Vogons Drivers refuses PDF upload. 😉

zip them

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Is there really demand for Office 2007 interface? Do the consumers really want to re-learn a radically different interface? I really doubt so. This video is an example of user's struggle to do things on the new Office - the same things they used to do easily on the previous Office versions.

I must admit I was a bit skeptical to the new UI in office myself, but after working with it I must say it is an improvement over Office 2003. That is how I experienced it when my workplace upgraded from 2003 to 2007 (they did it before I got around to it at home a couple of years ago).

If people were to decide if change is good or not then we would still be stuck with command line interfaces and no mouse. I don't know if anyone remembers how much controversy there were about adding mouse support to business programs back in the 80s. Letting the command line interface disappear from Lotus 1-2-3 and switching over to the more mouse and graphical UI based Apple or Excel products was also a big negative for many people. My point is that many times changes to a program can be for the better, even if the user don't realize it at first.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Anyway, while we're at it, how to upload PDF into Vogons Drivers? There is a "manual" section, but Vogons Drivers refuses PDF upload. 😉

I've just allowed PDFs, but any other format you'll need to zip/rar/whatever. 😀

vetz wrote:

I must admit I was a bit skeptical to the new UI in office myself, but after working with it I must say it is an improvement over Office 2003. That is how I experienced it when my workplace upgraded from 2003 to 2007 (they did it before I got around to it at home a couple of years ago).

I beg to differ. As someone who use section breaks quite frequently, I found Office 2007 UI quite frustrating.

vetz wrote:

If people were to decide if change is good or not then we would still be stuck with command line interfaces and no mouse. I don't know if anyone remembers how much controversy there were about adding mouse support to business programs back in the 80s. Letting the command line interface disappear from Lotus 1-2-3 and switching over to the more mouse and graphical UI based Apple or Excel products was also a big negative for many people. My point is that many times changes to a program can be for the better, even if the user don't realize it at first.

Not all changes are good. There are good changes, and there are bad changes. Replacing horses with engines was a good change, but there are reasons why automobiles don't use touch screen as steering wheel substitute.

SquallStrife wrote:

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Anyway, while we're at it, how to upload PDF into Vogons Drivers? There is a "manual" section, but Vogons Drivers refuses PDF upload. 😉

I've just allowed PDFs, but any other format you'll need to zip/rar/whatever. 😀

I see, thanks! 😀

Every year I buy a cheap notebook. The last two years it was a cheap 14" notebook from Compaq. I always get it from JB Hifi when they do a sale. The first model had a AMD E-300, last years a Celeron 1.7 GHz and this years a nice Pentium 2.4 GHz Ivy Bridge.

They go for ~300 - 400, but this year I didn't get the Pentium notebook because it came with Windows 8. And I just know that I'm not the only one...

SquallStrife wrote:

Oh? […]
Show full quote

sliderider wrote:

PC sales are not shrinking as much as you seem to have been brainwashed into thinking.

Oh?

http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/339682,the … ecord-lows.aspx

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100632129

http://news.yahoo.com/quarterly-personal-comp … 8--finance.html

The rest of the world seems to disagree. The hubris in this thread is astounding.

The use of phrases like "record lows" and "steep decline" should give you some indication that maybe I'm not as far off the mark as you're so seemingly desperate to believe.

Windows 8 being more of a miss than a hit is just compounding an existing trend. That is the trend away from sitting at a desk to consume content.

Propaganda paid for by by Microsoft to make people buy their Windows 8 piece of crap OS.

Oh, and in case you missed it, we are still in the middle of a global recession so of course PC sales are going to be down. PC's are considered a major purchase for most people and they are deferring that major purchase and making do with their existing PC until they can afford to replace it again.

SquallStrife wrote:

I've just allowed PDFs, but any other format you'll need to zip/rar/whatever. 😀

That allows reading online and unnecessary download transfers

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Not all changes are good. There are good changes, and there are bad changes. Replacing horses with engines was a good change, but there are reasons why automobiles don't use touch screen as steering wheel substitute.

In many cases only hindsight can tell if it was a good or bad change. People resist change like crazy because it makes them uncomfortable. It is human nature.

Just to take your example that the first automobiles came with alot of resistance as well. In England you had to have a person walking infront of the car with a red flag warning everyone else...

I personally don't judge stuff untill I've given it a good try. I haven't tried Windows 8 yet, but when I get the chance I'll try and come in with an open mind.

When it comes to PC sales I guess we just have to face it that the PC as it is currently is dieing from competition from smart phones, ipads (change of behavior from users) coupled with that a 5 year old PC still works fine for Windows usage and the fact that demand has almost been met as most people/households have their own computer at the current moment. This was not the case 10 years ago.

sliderider wrote:

Propaganda paid for by by Microsoft to make people buy their Windows 8 piece of crap OS.

And leprechauns stole your underpants.

I have bought two copies of Windows 8 (there was a promo action where you buy it for $40 as an upgrade to Win7 or Vista) only to realise it weren't the best eighty bucks I spent in my life. I am too lazy to reinstall Win7 though, but the wife already demanded her Vista back and I did it 🙁 Though I have to admit that Win8 is working way faster than Vista.

why didn't you just installed her classic shell?

btw win8 is more compatible with old games - you don't have to kill explorer there 😀

SquallStrife wrote:

sliderider wrote:

Propaganda paid for by by Microsoft to make people buy their Windows 8 piece of crap OS.

And leprechauns stole your underpants.

Soooooo.....you naively believe that Microsoft doesn't pay magazine reviewers to pump up their latest POS operating system?

i was wondering i read that win8 sold statistics contain also windows 8 phone and windows rt. Doesn't that make its sell even smaller? And also i wonder if older win statistics could also include some ms mobile oses that would compensate.

sliderider wrote:

SquallStrife wrote:

sliderider wrote:

Propaganda paid for by by Microsoft to make people buy their Windows 8 piece of crap OS.

And leprechauns stole your underpants.

Soooooo.....you naively believe that Microsoft doesn't pay magazine reviewers to pump up their latest POS operating system?

You're being obnoxious. There's criticizing and then there's obnoxious. I'd like to see those magazine reviews. Reviews are valid if there are solid arguments in them.

F2bnp wrote:

sliderider wrote:

SquallStrife wrote:

And leprechauns stole your underpants.

Soooooo.....you naively believe that Microsoft doesn't pay magazine reviewers to pump up their latest POS operating system?

You're being obnoxious. There's criticizing and then there's obnoxious. I'd like to see those magazine reviews. Reviews are valid if there are solid arguments in them.

No, I'm not. So I'm supposed to believe after reading a glowing review of some product and then turning the page to see a full page advertisement for that same product that the review was perfectly honest? Magazines exist to sell advertising and they don't sell advertising by talking down products in reviews, especially a product from a large company like Microsoft who could withhold their advertising dollars for years after the bad review is long forgotten.

I've never seen that happen actually. I'd like to see a scan of that, review + ad on the next page.
But regardless, as long as the review is based on solid facts it doesn't really matter if it is a negative or positive one. Can you please direct me to a review that is positive but fails to supply facts and info?

Well, about resistance to change... I am talking about my personal experience.
USB? What good is for?
Scroll wheel? Why would I need it?
This was at the start... Then I discovered usable USB devices and that the scroll wheel was quite useful in text editing or web browsing.
When it comes to mouse thumb buttons, I was one of the early adopters. The same is valid for Linux. For the past 15 years I had a Linux on my HDD. Liked 98SE, hated ME, indifferent to 2k, grown to like XP, never tried Vista, like 7, saw and hate 8.
Long time ago had my encounters with 3.1, 3.11 and 95.

sliderider wrote:

SquallStrife wrote:

sliderider wrote:

Propaganda paid for by by Microsoft to make people buy their Windows 8 piece of crap OS.

And leprechauns stole your underpants.

Soooooo.....you naively believe that Microsoft doesn't pay magazine reviewers to pump up their latest POS operating system?

You arrogantly believe that the articles I linked are glowing recommendations of Windows 8.

And then accuse me of naivety.

Cute.