It can't be generic and good music is a must. It needs to be challenging enough to gain interest and porting to Linux as well Mac is a huge plus. As for game dev looking to the old games is a good sign that you are searching for and willing to explore old ideas ect.

MasterM wrote:

Please note, that I'm not talking about a mod to some existing oldie; I'm thinking about creating the whole new game with original levels and enemies

But a mod to some existing oldie can also easily have original levels and enemies. Is there some feature you think is lacking from DOOM or Quake that you would include in your game?

just remember, for paletted graphics, it might be troublesome in win7, need to apply somekind of fix to make it look proper.

win8 also might dislike anything that not in 32bpp display mode.

I'd definitely be interested in an oldschool Build engine style FPS. Hell, even something running on an engine like Bethsoft's old XnGine that powered Terminator: Future Shock or SkyNET would be great fun.

Any with old school graphics sounds awesome. And as some mentioned, music needs to be the bomb 😀

Id definitely enjoy and play such a game, even though im a person that likes the story.
Sadly i dont have any usable skills in game development, but i definitely support such a project!

Speaking as a professional game programmer, this idea has a lot of potential, however, chances are your target audience is going to be too used to certain features from updated source ports of those old games like Doom and whatnot, so I don't recommend going with a ray-casting engine. Don't let that stop you from using retro-styled graphics, but choose/make an engine that can utilize hardware acceleration for maximum framerates and to allow users to mouselook in all directions.

The thing that made those old FPS games stand out were having a good variety of level designs, plenty of textures, enemies and music, an interesting variety of weapons and having SOME semblance of story. (Doom was split into three episodes and had text at the end of each telling you what kind of progress you were making.)

So long as you hit all those points, you should end up with a game that a lot of people would be willing to try out. ;)

It also helps to have a "gimmick" of some kind. Some feature that sets the game apart from others, no matter how tiny it is. (For instance, Doom introduced the idea of armour and had weapons like the BFG that could absolutely obliterate enemies.)

MasterM, check out Serious Sam. They made a modern version of the game and I believe it sold quite well.

One thing that's forgotten that I wish could return some day is the linear inventory system that added a bit of tactical depth to Duke3D, Blood, Shadow Warrior, Heretic, Hexen, Eradicator...... it's one thing that still is unfortunately stuck in the '90s.

I bet a FPS that involved finding objects and crafting them for unexpected use would be neat. Like in Alphaman.

MasterM wrote:

My question to you is: Would you play and enjoy such game? Do you think it's awesome or just pure-nonesense to release such game in 2012?

No and no.

I don't really mind first-person perspective, and don't mind low-res, outdated graphics either, but there are reasons why I'm now re-playing Ultima Underworld instead of Doom.

As some have said about graphics it needs to look good but look at what many are playing now days with games like "minecraft". I would have never thought that anyone would have interest in playing with "blocks". I have one suggestion that you look at the Drakan games, the first one if you have played it then you will get what I am hinting at when it comes to geometry. The textures are fine but there is some things that are annoying.

Sorry to be a negative nelly but creating a game from scratch is a HUGE amount of work, even if it's an old school shooter that's relatively simple by today's standards. I'm a programmer and have starter a few projects to re-create my favorites, and even a side scroller like double dragon took forever and is still sitting there unfinished, and un-fun to play. Just the artwork alone is massive! I fell into a trap of thinking old-school meant small and simple, but DOOM was created by a team of talented pros.

And - oh man this is a negative rant I'm so sorry! - I still play DOOM for nostalgia reasons. But if I'm playing a new shooter, then I want mouselook, textures that don't look awful on my 22" widescreen, etc.

What I really want to see is a shooter in a modern engine with the gameplay mechanics / level designs of Duke3D. I really miss those small, complex levels that make you want to replay them 100 times to find all the secrets.

badmofo wrote:

Sorry to be a negative nelly but creating a game from scratch is a HUGE amount of work, even if it's an old school shooter that's relatively simple by today's standards. I'm a programmer and have starter a few projects to re-create my favorites, and even a side scroller like double dragon took forever and is still sitting there unfinished, and un-fun to play. Just the artwork alone is massive! I fell into a trap of thinking old-school meant small and simple, but DOOM was created by a team of talented pros.

And - oh man this is a negative rant I'm so sorry! - I still play DOOM for nostalgia reasons. But if I'm playing a new shooter, then I want mouselook, textures that don't look awful on my 22" widescreen, etc.

What I really want to see is a shooter in a modern engine with the gameplay mechanics / level designs of Duke3D. I really miss those small, complex levels that make you want to replay them 100 times to find all the secrets.

I've been contacted many times before by people who's ambitions in making games far exceeded their skill or potential drive. You have no idea how many times I've answered the question: "I wanna make an MMORPG. How do I get started?" >_>;;;

The thing is though, that there's a couple ways you can go about making games: As a hobby or as a career. As a hobby, then it's OK to never complete anything or never get very far because you're gaining experience the whole while and learning about stuff. I never completed any projects with the Truevision 3D engine, but I was able to use my experience from learning it to help people out on the Truevision 3D forums while I was still using it.

If you approach it as a career like I have though, that's when it becomes important to do a lot of work and to always press forward, even during the rough patches. When I released my first public alpha of Vectorzone and a third of everyone who tried it got motion sick, I clearly had to go back to the drawing board and ended up redesigning the heck out of it for the next three months, and now I'm FINALLY back into coding it, and if all goes to plan I should be very close to done by the end of the year! (Seriously, the coding process is going along much faster than usual thanks to more modern tools and hardware acceleration.)

I should also have my next public alpha up VERY soon, as in, within the next few days. ;)

My point is though that if you want to make games as a career, you need to be willing to invest massive amounts of time into the process. If you don't want to do that, (or can't do that for whatever reason), then making games as a hobby is the best you can hope to achieve, but there's nothing wrong with that either, you just don't get paid for it. :P

From my point of view it will require something that I haven't seen anyone mentioning so far, and which is missing from today FPS'es, namely badass weapons! I also miss the kickass music found in Duke and Doom.

With the loads of enemies ideas, I was not particular fan of Serious Sam, so going that route is too much. The Quake style was perfect imo. So in essence I would play it if the game had:

1. Kickass adrenaline pumping music which you can just dig even outside the game 😀
2. Badass weapons to blow shit up (yes the enemies should be able to be gibbed!)
3. Fast paced action
4. Have mouselook and modern control scheme

Ofc loads of different types of enemies, different environments would help not to make it go stale. Fighting in one room after wave and wave of the same enemy is not my cup of tea.

I am working on putting together video footage for an upcoming video and while doing a recording I got carried away playing Doom. Just something about these games. Simple game with loads of fun.

Descent could do with a comeback. Such a shooter hasn't been around for quite some time.

nforce4max wrote:

I have one suggestion that you look at the Drakan games, the first one if you have played it then you will get what I am hinting at when it comes to geometry.

I haven't played it but I'll definitely take a look!

badmofo wrote:

Sorry to be a negative nelly but creating a game from scratch is a HUGE amount of work ...

badmofo, Gemini00: Don't worry I'm well aware that is is going to be BIG project - this is why I'm trying to estimate the viability of it first. I may be a hobbyist game developer but I'm a professional programmer with several years of experience doing hobby work prior to entering the industry. Also I'm not planning to work on my own - a team of 5 people (coder - me, 2 level designers, a graphic artist and a musician) is a minimum. And since I'm into Demoscene I'll try to recruit at least some of my team there. 😀

Thank you for all your suggestions. I asked the same question on GOG.com forums and there seem to be a consensus as to what people expect from that type of game. Taking all this advice into consideration I revised my concept as follows:

• The game engine will use OpenGL in full RGB and real 3D instead of raycasting in software.
• Maps will probabbly use format compatible with GTKRadiant (open source Quake level editor) - this will allow mappers to design levels on par with those found in Quake 1-3 (no silly raycasting limitations).
• Two input modes will be supported: oldschool (X-axis only, no mouse) and newschool (mouselook with modern controls).
• The engine will support some modern features like point lights and dynamic shadows.

At the same time this is what's going to keep the looks oldschool:

• Low resolution: 320x240 or 640x480 VGA framebuffer (upscaling to native resolution will be done by the engine to ensure good image quality on todays displays)
• Textures will still be limited to 256 color palette with no filtering
• 2D sprites used for enemies and objects

Gameplay-wise I want to "steal" some ideas from Alien Breed: Tower Assault because I think it's a great game:

• Lots of kickass weapons like lasers bouncing off the walls.
• You will earn credits for buying weapons and ammo in special terminals - this will add some tactics (shall I buy a weapon now or save for something even better later?)
• Progression from level to level will be non-linear: frequent several exits, dozens of routes from start to finish the game/episode.
• Sector system: civilian, science, military etc. Path to finish will be shorter but more dangerous through military sectors while civilian sectors will be easier but the path leading through them will be longer and more complicated. This will also add tactical elements: while progressing in the military sector one could fallback into a civilian sector when low on health etc.
• Occasional red alert/autodestruction speedruns to exit
• Outdoor levels from top-down 2D perspective when traveling between buildings (to add variety).
• Possible 2 player co-op.

Let me know what you think! 😀

So... What is it that can't be accomplished using mods to the Quake engine? Also, can OpenGL be used in DOS?

I might be inclined to suggest finding some sort of unique angle rather than going for yet another space marine in grey and brown corridors.

and the themes?

hi-tech sci-fi shooters?
magical fantasy shooters?
middle-age crossbow shooters?
current-weapon realistic shooters?

badmofo wrote:

And - oh man this is a negative rant I'm so sorry! - I still play DOOM for nostalgia reasons. But if I'm playing a new shooter, then I want mouselook, textures that don't look awful on my 22" widescreen, etc.

I would like to add that the reason oldschool FPS games were such a big hit is more because of their technological revolution (texture mapped 3D graphics, multiplayer) than game mechanic, content, or gameplay.

Take Doom for example; everybody went crazy when it was first released, but after Quake was released, suddenly Doom became obsolete. Quake has better graphics and multiplayer, while graphics and multiplayer are what Doom is all about. So after Quake was released, why would people play Doom anymore?

It is a much different case with, say, System Shock. Yes, its graphics are obsolete compared to Quake, and it has no multiplayer at all. But there are reasons why people would prefer System Shock than Quake, because it has more complex gameplay, intriguing storyline, and adventure/puzzle-solving elements that Quake doesn't have.

Yes, my Doom example above is probably flawed; people would probably stick with Doom because it probably has better content and plot (or what passes for plot) than Quake, but if that's the case, it actually supports my point; that if two games have exactly the same kind of "pointing and shooting" gameplay, but one has better graphics, then the one with better graphics win. And that's the reason I don't play old school FPS anymore.

But MasterM, regardless of what I say, it is still your project after all. If you want to create such games - simple FPS with vintage-style graphics and no plot whatsoever, then please go on. Like Gemini000 said, you will gain a lot of experience, learning, and probably have some fun while doing so.

But if you ask others whether they would play and enjoy such game - a game where you just running around and shooting things without any plot whatsoever, then I doubt the answer would be 'yes'. I, for one, wouldn't play such games anymore - not while there are a lot better FPS out there. Even with upgraded graphics (tried GZDoom some weeks ago), Doom feels boring and repetitive compared to Call of Duty. Yes, I played it for a while out of nostalgia, but after few levels, I got bored.

That's much different than, say, Ultima Underworld. Even with the likes of Skyrim out there, Ultima Underworld doesn't feel boring and repetitive. And despite its primitive graphics, I still enjoy re-playing it again after almost twenty years. I do not play Ultima Underworld - and many old games, for that matter - for nostalgic reason alone; I play it because of its great storyline and interesting gameplay.