Yeah but just imagine if what the article says *really* happens. PC building? If AMD stays afloat were okay but otherwise its a sh*t show..

but when in 386/486 era there more competitor to intel.

The north bridge has already been fully integrated into sandy bridge CPUs. It looks on Intel's Haswell CPU they will start doing away with south bridge as well. After everything has been integrated into the CPU core it will be easy for intel to kill off desktop motherboard manufacturers. Intel never passes on an opportunity to eliminate competition.

tincup wrote:

or maybe AMD becomes the enthusiast's part, while Intel drops it all to stalk the big game...

The problem is: I'm not sure how long AMD would last. The company, I mean. 😢

SquallStrife wrote:

Anonymous Coward wrote:

There were quite a few 486SX-25s soldered to motherboards back in the 486 days. Those were mainly in OEM systems though.

I personally wouldn't want a soldered CPU. Not because I would upgrade, but more because I am very picky about my CPU and motherboard combos when I build. Let's just say intel doesn't exactly have a reputation for reasonable prices and features when it comes to motherboards.

It wouldn't mean that motherboard makers suddenly disappeared. Gigabyte, Asus, Zotac, and many others make motherboards with soldered-on Atom CPUs.

Atom is a small segment of the market but to have to make a production run of mainstream motherboards mounting one speed of Intel CPU and then have to do another production run for every other speed is a PITA and complicates their ordering and inventory. So let's say Gigabyte produces 100,000 motherboards with a certain speed processor on them because Intel tells them this is going to be the hot selling model but Intel's predictions turn out to be wrong, the economy goes south, the market moves in another direction or whatever. Now Gigabyte has 100,000 motherboards with soldered on CPU's that aren't selling and clogging up their inventory and reducing their available capital. If the CPU's weren't soldered on, they would still be able to sell their motherboards and let the buyers add their own CPU but now desoldering the CPU and soldering on another one that is easier to sell becomes an expensive and complicated process that loses them money or else they have to discount those boards until they find buyers for them which also loses them money. It was bad enough when Intel went to a pinless design and shifted that expense from themselves to the motherboard manufacturers but the complications this is going to bring about are going to be a logistical nightmare.

if somehow intel allow BGA CPU to sold to end-users (but come-on, only elite hi-tech consumers that might have access to precise soldering process that required to install the BGA ...),
would BGA-to-LGA adapter might be available somewhat?

Something just in from Maximum PC...

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/amd_rea … ough_least_2014

hope AMD hangs in there..

I think that AMD will make it for another two years or so but eventually the market will be consolidated and there will only be one company, won't be isolated to just one industry.

sliderider wrote:

Stuff

Yeah, I dig all that, but maybe there is more information we're not getting yet?

Maybe BGA pushes down the cost so much that they only need, say, one budget CPU, one mainstream CPU, and one high-end CPU?

They're nearly at that point anyway, with Core i3, Core i5, and Core i7. Within each of those the models are separated by increments of 100MHz. Not even worth mentioning once you factor in turbo boost and whatnot.

SquallStrife wrote:

Yeah, I dig all that, but maybe there is more information we're not getting yet? […]
Show full quote

sliderider wrote:

Stuff

Yeah, I dig all that, but maybe there is more information we're not getting yet?

Maybe BGA pushes down the cost so much that they only need, say, one budget CPU, one mainstream CPU, and one high-end CPU?

They're nearly at that point anyway, with Core i3, Core i5, and Core i7. Within each of those the models are separated by increments of 100MHz. Not even worth mentioning once you factor in turbo boost and whatnot.

The problem is the cost of the failed boards inflating the price of the working samples even if the individual production costs are low. So it can very easily push prices higher than they are now and it will allow for Intel to charge even more for the high end models. People complain how 2011 i7 hex cores are so expensive yet don't realize just how easily those early Pentium 2 prices and Pentium Pro prices could easily return. Paying $3k or more for a top of the line BGA system when $750-$1500 two or three years before could have easily matched is crazy but people will fork out because they are thin like the new iMacs.

SquallStrife wrote:

Yeah, I dig all that, but maybe there is more information we're not getting yet? […]
Show full quote

sliderider wrote:

Stuff

Yeah, I dig all that, but maybe there is more information we're not getting yet?

Maybe BGA pushes down the cost so much that they only need, say, one budget CPU, one mainstream CPU, and one high-end CPU?

They're nearly at that point anyway, with Core i3, Core i5, and Core i7. Within each of those the models are separated by increments of 100MHz. Not even worth mentioning once you factor in turbo boost and whatnot.

The reason why they have those increments is so Intel can sell parts that fail at the higher speeds. For them to eliminate a lot of speed grades between the top and the bottom and consolidating to only 2 or 3 speeds means that they will have to sell a lot of parts at a much lower speed grade than they are capable of and they would have to charge less for them. Intel is not going to sell a part for less money when they don't have to, and if they were to do that, don't think you would be able to just buy the cheaper part, crank up the bus speed, and get that extra performance for nothing. They would lock out overclocking and make you buy an unlock code like they did a few years back.

Also new from Maximum PC.

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/intel_s … ted_sockets2012

Whelp, guess they aren't after all.

OK! Intel counters AMD's response. This is good. Our chatter may have an effect... we'll see. I'm not encouraged [and was surprised by] all the talk around here about the supposed advantages of the alternate computing systems, but so be it.

tincup wrote:

I'm not encouraged [and was surprised by] all the talk around here about the supposed advantages of the alternate computing systems, but so be it.

People with differing views, blasphemy!

😜

haha!

The sad fact is that enthusiasts don't matter much. Intel will probably save more by not spending money on sockets than they will lose if every enthusiast jumps ship to AMD.

The real scary thing if this does happen though, is how little choice we'll have in motherboards. Today if there are X number of CPUs and Y number of boards vendors only have to stock X+Y CPUs to give us X*Y options. If we can't mix and match, we're probably stuck with X or Y options, whichever is greater.

Plus, if Intel cuts out the motherboard manufacturers that's going to make it a lot easier for Microsoft to lock down the platform in the future. If they want to enforce secure boot on x86 today they have to confince half a dozen manufacturers to go along with it. If Intel is the only OEM, that's only one entity they have to convince, and what are you going to do if you don't like it?

The next decade or so is going to be a very bad time to be a computer hobbyist.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/intel_s … ted_sockets2012

So peace in the realm for at least a while longer...

All this kind of reminds me of when I switched from Commodore 64 to PCs. I Used the C64 much longer than I "should" have - well into the 486 era. And it was of course a MAJOR change. Point is = I have a feeling what is coming is an equally big jump - the newer chips and operating systems are going to be as foreign and as far from what we have now as that first PC was.....

i wish there more alternative than just two AMD & intel for compatible x86 CPU just like it how was before the P3 era,
alas the patent laws discourage this.

Joey_sw wrote:

i wish there more alternative than just two AMD & intel for compatible x86 CPU just like it how was before the P3 era

You do realize that VIA is still alive, don't you? 😁