could always try out 98lite and get the best of both worlds (theoretically)

95 does seem nice and lean to me but somehow I choose 98se once i get to 300mhz

ncmark wrote:

But I was also surprised to discover the number of things that would not work....the version of POV-Ray I has been using would not run, nor Nero, nor the "later" versions of Widows Media Player I have grown accustomed to using.

That's odd. Are you using the original version of Windows 95 without Internet Explorer 4? That would probably make the difference.

Jorpho wrote:

Are you using the original version of Windows 95 without Internet Explorer 4? That would probably make the difference.

Even if you used Windows 95C you can abort the first-time IE4 install process on the second time you run Windows with a nice task manager terminating. It's what I do. It'll leave Windows with IE3 instead.

I think the main reason Win98 is slower is because of the shell enhancements (IE integration with the desktop/start menu). I've noticed that as soon as that feature is added to Win95/NT4 (using the IE4 installer), the slowdown is apparent.

I didn't realize there were versions of Win95 that came with those features by default. That's kind of annoying - it definitely adds a load to the system so not everybody would want it. Glad to see there's a workaround though that leileilol mentioned.

You can install IE4+ without installing the shell enhancements. The IE4 install gives it as an option, but I think IE5 and definitely 6 just leave the shell alone unless you make a modified installer.

My preference for an old system like that is to install NT4. It uses the same lean version of the GUI as Win95, but it's NT so it's way more stable. It needs more RAM than 95 but that's no problem nowadays.
It depends what you're using it for though, as it can be a problem with some games. NT4 SP6a has some DirectX support, but some games still won't work.
On the other hand, I bet there's a lot of applications which supported NT4 after Win95 support had been dropped.

I use a Windows 98 Mini install, according to the now gone winimize.com. For the 'Fast' explorer, it specifically mentions using 4 files from an original Windows 95 release:
explorer.exe v4.0.0.950
comdlg32.dll v4.0.0.951
shell32.dll v4.0.0.1111
notepad.exe v4.0.0.950

Windows 98 Mini boots very fast, like 4 seconds IIRC. Which makes it a convenient interface (and EMS emulator) for DOS. But the lack of windows sound and DirectX makes it useless for windows games.
It remains responsive when I run the processor at 100MHz.

Edit: Boot time is 7 seconds. Being a 36 MB Windows folder now, with S3 Virge and Voodoo 3 drivers installed. The version numbers mentioned above are for Win95 OSR2, original release is 4x v4.0.0.950.

The free version of the aforementioned 98lite will still let you replace the shell with the shell from the original Windows 95 release, but more advanced features require the registered version.

leileilol wrote:

Even if you used Windows 95C you can abort the first-time IE4 install process on the second time you run Windows with a nice task manager terminating. It's what I do. It'll leave Windows with IE3 instead.

But doesn't that mean you should still be able to extract those IE-less versions of explorer.exe, etc. from a Windows 95C installation disc? I have never read of someone suggesting that.

gerwin wrote:

notepad.exe v4.0.0.950

Notepad!? How on Earth could they have worked some kind of useless IE dependency into Notepad!?

Jorpho wrote:

But doesn't that mean you should still be able to extract those IE-less versions of explorer.exe, etc. from a Windows 95C installation disc? I have never read of someone suggesting that.

You should still be able to. I'm just mentioning that it's possible to avert the trainwreck that is the internetgrated shell and no way is it FORCED on you by default on 95C

Jorpho wrote:

Notepad!? How on Earth could they have worked some kind of useless IE dependency into Notepad!?

MS HTML permeated everything in Windows 9x. That's why when you do a 98Lite install that removes all traces of MS HTML from the system so many things that seemingly aren't internet related suddenly stop working.

Jorpho wrote:

Notepad!? How on Earth could they have worked some kind of useless IE dependency into Notepad!?

Don't remember the reason.. cannot find it again either.
The winimize install script copies less then the smallest 98Lite option leaves you. In fact, I added a few dll's later as they are commonly required.

I have OSR2 - but something tells me it doesn't ave IE4. Both programs failed to run because of some "common control" needing to be upgraded.

I remember I ran that on a 486 DX4-100 for a while (too slow, really) but ran it on a petium MMX166 for a long time - that was workhorse system

Wikipedia on Windows 95 4.00.950 C "OSR 2.5 was notable for featuring a number of changes to the Windows Explorer, integrating it with Internet Explorer 4.0—this version of the Explorer looks very similar to the one featured in Windows 98"

Never noticed this before:
Memory Management Problems on PCs with Pentium CPUs
"When you run multiple programs (especially MS-DOS-based programs) on a Windows-based computer that has insufficient system memory (RAM) and contains an Intel Pentium Pro or Pentium II processor, information in memory may become unavailable or damaged, leading to unpredictable results."

But are there other versions of OSR2?
Maybe IE4 IS there - I'll have to check the next time I have it set up.

I find the limitations of Windows 95, even though the shell speed is supposedly faster, to be an issue. Pentium II support only comes with 95C, which also comes with the shell enhancements. Apparently you can avoid them. Internet Explorer is limited to 5.5, but you can install a more modern browser like Opera. There are hard 32GB hard drive limits, anyone found a way around those?

Actually I think mine is OSR2-B - but I have run it on a machine as fast as a pentium 3..........

leileilol wrote:

Jorpho wrote:

But doesn't that mean you should still be able to extract those IE-less versions of explorer.exe, etc. from a Windows 95C installation disc? I have never read of someone suggesting that.

You should still be able to. I'm just mentioning that it's possible to avert the trainwreck that is the internetgrated shell and no way is it FORCED on you by default on 95C

But if the original shell files aren't in there, then there must still be some degree of integration, right?

sliderider wrote:

MS HTML permeated everything in Windows 9x.

There's nothing in Notepad to permeate! I might try to do a byte-by-byte comparison myself.

ncmark wrote:

Both programs failed to run because of some "common control" needing to be upgraded.

Yes, that is one of various updates released for Windows 95 that would be included by default in Windows 98. It is a relatively minor change that was required by many programs back in the day and can be installed without installing IE4.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windo … v=vs.85%29.aspx

Looks like http://download.microsoft.com/download/platfo … US/50comupd.exe should do the trick.

Great Hierophant wrote:

There are hard 32GB hard drive limits, anyone found a way around those?

This has come up several times in the past. It can easily be bypassed using the correct version of FDISK, though there might subsequently be problems with scandisk.

Jorpho wrote:

But if the original shell files aren't in there, then there must still be some degree of integration, right?

I certainly don't see no "View as Web Page" in my 95C install, so no.

Jorpho wrote:

This has come up several times in the past. It can easily be bypassed using the correct version of FDISK, though there might subsequently be problems with scandisk.

Nooooooo ! Formating/partitioning the drive correctly doesn't fix the issue! I know because I had it happened to me, you get to a point that you write after the 32GB (or 64 or 128 depending on OS) and all you do is start corrupting the beginning of the drive and thus losing your files (same like the amiga 4GB limitation ...)
You also NEED a windows IDE driver update , the notorious ESDI_506.PDR... you can read more here: http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/78592-enable4 … -137gb-barrier/

basically you need to correct patched file and then it is safe to use large drives....
I had this problem with my 98SE installation and a 200GB HDD, I don't see how 95x would work better.... it sucks when your files start corrupting! 🤐

I forgot about a previous post I had made.

So, it seems the advantages to Windows 98 seem to dwindle. There are some games which refuse to install on Windows 95, but virtually all of them are from 2001 or 2002 or later. At that point, Windows 2000 or XP would be a better choice. Ditto for hardware, its tough to find a true need for Windows 98 for late 1990s games.

Windows 95 has really weak support for USB, but 98's support for USB 2.0 is also pretty weak too.