War has never been so much fun! That game is how I found about DosBOX! Well that and Dune2, Z (bitmap brothers) and Worms. All of which (apart from Z) were better on the Amiga 🤣

Bah. Got stuck on Eye of the Beholder on level 6. It wasn't so great that I'm willing to backtrack. I think I'm picking a new game...

Obvious choice is Baldur's Gate II, but I kind of wanted to spend some time in real DOS, so I'm considering Anvil of Dawn and Albion.

clueless1 wrote:

Obvious choice is Baldur's Gate II, but I kind of wanted to spend some time in real DOS, so I'm considering Anvil of Dawn and Albion.

Looking forward to hearing what you think of Albion if you choose that - I was really digging on that game for a while but the combat killed it for me before long. It's turned based which is not my thing, so I died a lot 😵

Lovely graphics tho, interesting setting, nice GM music.

clueless1 wrote:

Bah. Got stuck on Eye of the Beholder on level 6. It wasn't so great that I'm willing to backtrack. I think I'm picking a new game...

Obvious choice is Baldur's Gate II, but I kind of wanted to spend some time in real DOS, so I'm considering Anvil of Dawn and Albion.

Sorry to hear you got disappointed by Eye of the Beholder... I loved the game when it came out but I remember using a walkthrough from a game magazine. (I think I might have edited the stats of my characters with an editor as well 😊)

Eye of the beholder 2 might be worth a try as well, maybe you'd prefer it?

Also, I still think you should check out Might & Magic 3, 4 & 5 if you're into old-school RPG 😎

@badmojo: I actually started Albion once last year, and got down to the planet (maybe 2-3 hrs into the game). I like turn-based combat, but the 1st person movement in the game wasn't my favorite. It's not as 3D feeling as Ultima Underworld, and things like turning corners were very confusing. I'd think I made a left when I actually pulled a u-turn. 🤣. But I love the story, the premise, and the music so I want to give it another shot.

@MMaximus: Not so much that I was disappointed, it just didn't have enough good things going for it that it was worth the extra time of backtracking. Having 1 save slot is potentially a killer because you can save your way into a dead-end. I had been manually backing up my save file after each level, so I can restore back if needed. But the lack of music and skeletal storyline just didn't draw me in enough, and having to have a map up on a 2nd computer, plus a physical printout of another map was too much work for a middle-aged gamer. 😀

Regarding MM, I actually did play MM3 back in the day. I didn't finish it, but I remember spending a lot of hours on it and really enjoying it. So yeah, that's another one I keep thinking about. Probably would go with Xeen though, for a slight graphical upgrade and general MIDI option (via waveblaster setting).

edit: After playing a little bit of Anvil of Dawn, I realized my system has this bug with the game:
Anvil of Dawn - general protection fault on exiting the game
my sound card is the Audician 32 Plus, which is the same chip that the OP in the thread above has, so perhaps a bug specific to OPL3-SAx chips. So no I'm trying Albion again. 😀

spiroyster wrote:

War has never been so much fun! That game is how I found about DosBOX! Well that and Dune2, Z (bitmap brothers) and Worms. All of which (apart from Z) were better on the Amiga 🤣

Anyway, you played Z? I always find the game too difficult.

badmojo wrote:

clueless1 wrote:

Obvious choice is Baldur's Gate II, but I kind of wanted to spend some time in real DOS, so I'm considering Anvil of Dawn and Albion.

Looking forward to hearing what you think of Albion if you choose that - I was really digging on that game for a while but the combat killed it for me before long. It's turned based which is not my thing, so I died a lot 😵

Lovely graphics tho, interesting setting, nice GM music.

I've sunk a little over 5 hrs into Albion so far. I'm really struggling to keep going on it. 🙁 My issues with it:
-I really dislike how it jumps between different perspectives. I wish it would just stick with the 2D birds-eye perspective that the game starts in (which it does very well). The first person "Underworld style" perspective is really poorly done. Sense of movement is not at all convincing, and it's so easy to get turned around. Just turning a corner is a challenge--half the time I end up facing a completely unexpected direction or inadvertently turn completely around and start heading back where I came from. I'm constantly using the automap to check if I'm heading in the direction I'm intending to. 🙁
-the movement is primarily done by continuously holding the left mouse button, rather than the right button (like other RPGs like Ultima VII implement), which causes muscle fatigue on the palm area directly below my index finger. Keyboard movement is very limited--with the directional arrows only.
-though the world is gorgeous, there hasn't been a lot of variety within each of the areas (the ship, and the jungle) and contributes to hard-to-navigate issues. To further the plot, I was told to go to a certain area, but not given enough info to know how to get to that area (even though there is a guide with me who knows exactly how to get there, he does not lead me there or even give me hints, just tells me to go there).
-you're given a lot of important information ONCE, and are expected to remember it all or do lots of note-taking.
-there's a built-in automap, but ONLY for the first person perspective areas. In a nice touch, though, visited areas are often given a teleport dot, so if you want to go back, just click it on the automap and you'll instantly be there. They should've extended this to areas you are told to go to (see a couple of points above).

On the plus side:
-great GM music
-very interesting storyline (mix of fantasy and scifi), well written despite being translated from German
-the story has a nice "moral dilemma" very similar to something that would be written into ST:TNG
-beautiful, colorful graphics
-I personally really like their implementation of turn-based combat

MMaximus wrote:

Also, I still think you should check out Might & Magic 3, 4 & 5 if you're into old-school RPG 😎

I'm seeing anywhere from 80-100+ hrs to beat Worlds of Xeen. Do you have enough familiarity with Clouds and Darkside to know about how many hrs each are? I'd like less of a time commitment and not sure if it matters which of these I play standalone.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

spiroyster wrote:

War has never been so much fun! That game is how I found about DosBOX! Well that and Dune2, Z (bitmap brothers) and Worms. All of which (apart from Z) were better on the Amiga 🤣

Anyway, you played Z? I always find the game too difficult.

Yeah it was difficult, quite intense from the off and a bit of a different dynamic to the likes of Dune2 with the zones to capture and full view of the map (no fogged out areas you need to visit before seeing them). I liked the 'arcadey' feel and ability to blast your way through some of the obstacles on the map. It got quite repetitive though.

clueless1 wrote:

MMaximus wrote:

Also, I still think you should check out Might & Magic 3, 4 & 5 if you're into old-school RPG 😎

I'm seeing anywhere from 80-100+ hrs to beat Worlds of Xeen. Do you have enough familiarity with Clouds and Darkside to know about how many hrs each are? I'd like less of a time commitment and not sure if it matters which of these I play standalone.

The truth is, I haven't replayed MM3, 4 or 5 since the early '90s. For some reason they left a profound impression on me then, and I remember they were quite long to finish - however I was young and impatient at the time so I was cheating by editing the stats of my characters. As a result the games were more about exploration then combat because I was killing most ennemies with a single hit!

If I can find the time to replay any these games now, I will definitely play them without cheating and see how it goes 😀

I really recommend playing MM3 with a CM-32L or MUNT as the score is fantastic. It is not GM compatible as far as I know, whereas MM4 & 5 are - I really like their music as well, even though I don't think it's as good as MM3.

I remember finishing Clouds of Xeen, then buying Darkside of Xeen when it came out to combine it with Clouds and make World of Xeen - that was very exciting and I found the possibility of going from one world to the next very cool 😀

@MMaximus - just realized your avatar is one of the default characters in MM4/5 (Maximus). Is that right? 😀

I've been having bad luck with DOS RPGs lately. Looks like Albion is out, though I'm not convinced I won't go back and try EOB1 again. I do have the level 5 save game backed up, before I got stuck on level 6.

But I think I will try World of Xeen next. Funny, the GM music only seems to work if I select Waveblaster, and I'm using an Audician 32 Plus with DreamBlaster daughterboard.

I guess since I've got the GOG version working on my DOS PC, it's got it installed as World, so I just follow the storyline and should proceed along the Clouds path. I'll drum up a few walkthrus and see if it 1) maintains my interest and 2) not overwhelmingly long or difficult. 😀 Otherwise, I'll just start up Baldur's Gate II. Thanks!

edit: last night I auditioned a couple of games: Ravenloft: Strahd's Possession and World of Xeen. I could see myself playing Ravenloft to completion, though it has the same "hold left mouse button down constantly to move" feature that Albion has. Fortunately, you have full keyboard movement available from the numpad (yay!). Combat kind of sucks, though. Real-time clickfest with little strategy and time-consuming spellcasting that allows multiple hits from baddies while you wade through spell menus in realtime. 🙁 On the other hand, the MIDI music is amazing, and really helps set the creepy mood for the game. Graphics are charming and very stylized. Anyhow, after about 30 minutes it was Xeen's turn. Okay, I didn't actually *play* yet, but I had the best time creating 6 adventurers over the course of about an hour. That usually bodes well. Emotional investment in your players before stepping out into the gaming world is definitely a nice way to start off!

I considered Ravenloft because a) I played and beat Menzoberranzan back in the day, and do remember enjoying it, and b) howlongtobeat.com says it's only 15-20 hrs long. 😀

I think I will move forward with Xeen, but Ravenloft is one I will return to eventually.

spiroyster wrote:

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

spiroyster wrote:

War has never been so much fun! That game is how I found about DosBOX! Well that and Dune2, Z (bitmap brothers) and Worms. All of which (apart from Z) were better on the Amiga 🤣

Anyway, you played Z? I always find the game too difficult.

Yeah it was difficult, quite intense from the off and a bit of a different dynamic to the likes of Dune2 with the zones to capture and full view of the map (no fogged out areas you need to visit before seeing them). I liked the 'arcadey' feel and ability to blast your way through some of the obstacles on the map. It got quite repetitive though.

Yes, I read the CGW review. The "capture the flag" approach kinda turned me off.

badmojo wrote:

I get the sense that people around here are generally more interested in playing with old hardware than playing old games, that's often true for me too; I find myself installing and testing out hardware with a game as apposed to playing anything end-to-end. But lately I've been making an effort to play a game like I mean it - read the manual, learn the controls, and play it to beat it. It's been a really enjoyable experience, and I'm interested to hear what everyone else is playing (retro or otherwise).

I'm busy with work and kids so I don't have the requisite time or brain-power for long, involved RPGs anymore, so I've been keeping it simple. Mortal Kombat, DOOM, etc. Currently I'm playing 4D Sports Boxing:

Those are some of my favorites as well. I used to play the MK1 on PC while MK2 Arcade had come out to try and learn the combos. The keyboard was awesome for matching how the arcade controls were setup. MK2 for the PC was unfortunately not as accurate. Doing the Scorpion Turn Around Kick-Teleport Punch-Harpoon-Uppercut wasn't possible on the PC version. I got so good at the Arcade version that I was beating the tournament winners but unfortunately by then MK2 tournaments had ceased and MK3 and it's uglier UMK3 arrived. However thanks to Mame reliving the original classic in all its glory. 4D Sports Boxing was fun back then but once you've created the best character it's almost impossible to lose even against the last boss. Doom 1 and 2 will always be a classic. I remember playing over the dial up modem with a relative. I'd wait by the teleport location and once they beamed in double shotgun blast. 😀 If there's one game I'm itching to replay from the past it would be the King's Quest 1 Bootable version for the IBM PCjr. It had the most unique background sound that was missing from the DOS versions. I think this game really started gaming for myself out of all the oldies. Thanks goes to Roberta Williams.

Dug a copy of 4D Boxing.

Okay, I'm in LOVE with World of Xeen. I remember playing MM3 back in the day and really loving it too, but it seems like I got to a certain point mid-game and it became too hard. I couldn't get past a section or something like that. Now I have the INTERNET to help when I get stuck. 😊

Even with FM music, I think the sounds and music are great. I think the MIDI music is composed for LAPC-I...I can get MIDI working on my DreamBlaster by selecting WaveBlaster in the settings, but it doesn't sound as good as FM.

Very addicting gameplay, and best of all, I can play entirely from keyboard. I have hand issues that make extended mouse button holding painful, so this is a joy. 😀

clueless1 wrote:

Okay, I'm in LOVE with World of Xeen.

Cool, so you found your DOS RPG! I really like a good FM tune - I have an MT-32 here but often opt for FM because of nostalgia or simple convenience. There's a lot to be said for simple.

I'm still playing Gothic II but I have a lot going on in real life ATM so gaming has taken a back seat 😢 I've reached Act 2, which is further than I've made it to previously, and I was just starting to feel like I'd finally powered up enough to kick some arse, but no. I'm still being humbled by > 80% of the mobs. Still loving on this game though.

clueless1 wrote:

@MMaximus - just realized your avatar is one of the default characters in MM4/5 (Maximus). Is that right? 😀

Actually he's one of the default characters in Might & Magic 3 😀

clueless1 wrote:

Okay, I'm in LOVE with World of Xeen. I remember playing MM3 back in the day and really loving it too, but it seems like I got to a certain point mid-game and it became too hard. I couldn't get past a section or something like that. Now I have the INTERNET to help when I get stuck. 😊

Even with FM music, I think the sounds and music are great. I think the MIDI music is composed for LAPC-I...I can get MIDI working on my DreamBlaster by selecting WaveBlaster in the settings, but it doesn't sound as good as FM.

Very addicting gameplay, and best of all, I can play entirely from keyboard. I have hand issues that make extended mouse button holding painful, so this is a joy. 😀

I'm glad you're enjoying the game - makes me feel like playing it again! I think Xeen is one of those games which came out right at the time when midi support was switching from MT-32 to GM, and the soundtrack works equally well with a Sound Canvas or an MT-32. I'm not familiar with FM on Xeen but I played MM3 with a Sound Blaster 1.5 as a kid and have great memories of the FM soundtrack.

Looking forward to hearing about your progress with the game 😎

clueless1 wrote:

Okay, I'm in LOVE with World of Xeen. I remember playing MM3 back in the day and really loving it too, but it seems like I got to a certain point mid-game and it became too hard. I couldn't get past a section or something like that. Now I have the INTERNET to help when I get stuck. 😊

Even with FM music, I think the sounds and music are great. I think the MIDI music is composed for LAPC-I...I can get MIDI working on my DreamBlaster by selecting WaveBlaster in the settings, but it doesn't sound as good as FM.

Very addicting gameplay, and best of all, I can play entirely from keyboard. I have hand issues that make extended mouse button holding painful, so this is a joy. 😀

Wait, World of Xeen is a combination of two MM games, isn't it? I don't quite recall, but IIRC you need to install both games on the same hard drive to get World of Xeen.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

clueless1 wrote:

Okay, I'm in LOVE with World of Xeen. I remember playing MM3 back in the day and really loving it too, but it seems like I got to a certain point mid-game and it became too hard. I couldn't get past a section or something like that. Now I have the INTERNET to help when I get stuck. 😊

Even with FM music, I think the sounds and music are great. I think the MIDI music is composed for LAPC-I...I can get MIDI working on my DreamBlaster by selecting WaveBlaster in the settings, but it doesn't sound as good as FM.

Very addicting gameplay, and best of all, I can play entirely from keyboard. I have hand issues that make extended mouse button holding painful, so this is a joy. 😀

Wait, World of Xeen is a combination of two MM games, isn't it? I don't quite recall, but IIRC you need to install both games on the same hard drive to get World of Xeen.

Clouds of Xeen and Darkside of Xeen. World was also released as a standalone bundle not long afterwards.

MM 4, 5 and 6 are the best MM have to offer and solid recommendations to everyone.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Wait, World of Xeen is a combination of two MM games, isn't it? I don't quite recall, but IIRC you need to install both games on the same hard drive to get World of Xeen.

Yeah, as appiah says. In my case, I bought the GOG version, installed to my XP machine, then copied the files over to my DOS machine. Easily the biggest hdd hog on my 500MB 486, weighing in at over 36MB. 😉 edit: this is without the full speech option. I could not figure out how to make the CDs work in real DOS for full speech. See Digital DOS games (GOG, Steam...) Retro PC Compatibility Sheet: We need your input! for more details.

@MMaximus - yeah, it's really fun. I think what it does so well is take a complex set of RPG rules and hone them so well that anyone watching over your shoulder would think it was some cheesy RPG Lite game. So the interface and gameplay get all the benefit. It took me an hour or so to get used to the mostly-keyboard interface, then the gameplay took over. Despite being turn-based, you can make it as fast-paced as you want to. So you're not bogged down in number crunching or inventory management, you're just kicking butt and leveling up.
edit: more features that prove they made this for middle-aged gamers 😉 you can equip bows/slings AND melee weapons at the same time and the game will let you use ranged weapons before monsters engage you in melee. No need to switch weapons, and no need to conserve ammo. Bows have unlimited arrows and slings unlimited stones. 🤣. YET! you cannot equip a two-handed melee weapon and shield, as it should be.

@badmojo - Hey, at least you got further than last time, and it'll be there waiting for you when time gets freed up. 😀