wrote:If anything, don't get the first model Roland SC-55 at all. I noticed in some games, namely Duke Nukem 3D, where some songs sound off because it lacks some instruments that the MKII added such as the breath noise sample.
Do you have recordings of this issue?
Crap, i'm getting more and more undecided... 😵
If the SC88 does not show problems with games and its SC55 map is accurate like it seems, i might as well get it. I just don't wanna have missing sounds and such.
wrote:^ that is interesting with the breath sample... did not knew about that one and couldn't remember hearing breath with an XG synth... what track is that?
So one just choses, for example breath with DN3D or arrows with Might & Magic... (some info here: Calling all Roland SCC-1A Owners) , great news... 😒
I also noticed with mine in particular, the polyphony is pretty low so certain games like Heretic, have some instruments that sound a wee bit off in some cases since it is hitting the polyphony limit.
wrote:wrote:If anything, don't get the first model Roland SC-55 at all. I noticed in some games, namely Duke Nukem 3D, where some songs sound off because it lacks some instruments that the MKII added such as the breath noise sample.
Do you have recordings of this issue?
I will try to record the Duke Nukem 3D tracks that show this particular issue soon.
The specifications show 24 vs 28 voices when comparing the two units. Interesting.
Now Duke3D has an issue with sending/or not sending a reset. I believe the conclusion was to restart the machine or MIDI unit before you run this game. But my memory is fuzzy on that point 😀
wrote:The specifications show 24 vs 28 voices when comparing the two units. Interesting.
Now Duke3D has an issue with sending/or not sending a reset. I believe the conclusion was to restart the machine or MIDI unit before you run this game. But my memory is fuzzy on that point 😀
Duke Nukem 3D sounds fine for the most part on it, but songs like The Call of Death and Spook don't play the breath noise and it is replaced with the guitar click sample. Makes the songs sound different... and I personally think it is pretty interesting but it is still worth noting that particular issue.
The polyphony issue isn't extremely apparent, but I mostly noticed it with the Cathedral song from Heretic where the strings seem to kind of cut off when playing them compared to how it sounds with soundfonts and even the Microsoft Wavetable Synth.
so basically neither is the absolute solution... mk2 and similar lack tone fallback, mk1 has -4 in polyphony... maybe the answer lies in what synth devs mostly used, earlier titles are sure to use the mk1 whereas later ones benefit from the newer titles apparently.
Is the DN3D extra sfx a roland mk2+ unique feature? Or you can have a MU-50/80 and still get them via GM and not GS?
SpooferJahk please go ahead and record those DN3D tracks, would love to compare them 😀
btw, this thread is getting hot, love it! 😊
Hmmm i guess the SC88 isn't a bad idea afterall.
How much different does this sound from a SC55?
Breath Noise (GM #121) is present on any GM capable device.
Spooferjahk, your problems are simply due to the buggy Duke3D MIDI driver. This topic has all been discussed in great detail here recently and it was fixed (for many other games likewise).
^ ah the awesome driver fixes posted here 😀
do they also apply on GS hardware or only GM ones? I thought they were for non-GS hardware...?
They are especially for GS-capable hardware actually. The differences are even bigger with Yamaha DB60XG (which technically doesn't support GS but "emulates" it). To sketch the issue for you again, if you play Doom with DB60XG (-> GM reset) and Duke3D afterwards you'll get Standard drums instead of Power drums on Grabbag. I made recordings on this. Of course in this case this is actually not a game bug but expected behavior, as it would be fixed by manually sending the reset, but it can be irritating nonetheless. There are bad banks and such in the soundtrack that will mess up any synth and that's what was mainly fixed. E3M1 Inhiding.mid, etc
^ yeah I have given feedback on the release thread of both 3Drealms and ID patches, drums are way better with the GS reset... thanks for the clarification
Actually I was wrong about just the SC-88 being CM-64/CM32L "compatible". It looks like the SC-55 has all of those sounds as well.
wrote:Breath Noise (GM #121) is present on any GM capable device.
Spooferjahk, your problems are simply due to the buggy Duke3D MIDI driver. This topic has all been discussed in great detail here recently and it was fixed (for many other games likewise).
Actually that sample is not present on my model of the Sound Canvas at all, even with a buggy MIDI driver I looked at the samples provided on the canvas and the breath noise sample simply does not exist on my module which is indeed the first model of the SC-55.
Now this is getting interesting. I understand the issue now. May Fl. Keyclick be what you are getting instead of Breath Noise? I took a look at the manuals and that's what the capital tone is at instrument number 122 for the SC-55. For the SC-55mkII, Breath Noise is the capital tone and Fl. Keyclick is at variation number 1. Normally when they add new tones they never swap them with capital tones, but store them in the variation banks to provide backwards compatibility...
But clearly Breath Noise does come up in the General MIDI specification just as I said. You must have a SC-55 without a GM logo then. There are SC-55 units (NOT mkII) which have the logo, so it would be interesting to know how those behave in this case.
wrote:Now this is getting interesting. I understand the issue now. May Fl. Keyclick be what you are getting instead of Breath Noise? I took a look at the manuals and that's what the capital tone is at instrument number 122 for the SC-55. For the SC-55mkII, Breath Noise is the capital tone and Fl. Keyclick is at variation number 1. Normally when they add new tones they never change around the capital tones, but store them in the variation banks to provide backwards compatibility...
But clearly Breath Noise does come up in the General MIDI specification just as I said. You must have a SC-55 without a GM logo then. There are SC-55 units (NOT mkII) which have the logo, so it would be interesting to know how those behave in this case.
Mine has the GS logo which I learned about what it meant a bit too late. Oh well, I am hoping to eventually get my hands on an MKII or an SC-88 in the future myself.
Well how would we know what module was used though? Who says that the click noise isn't the right one? I'm listening to it like that right know and if anything, it sounds more correct to me. On both tracks it sounds like a ticking clock. On Spook the clicks are even panned to the left/right, respectively. To be sure we would need to contact Bobby Prince and ask what unit he used, even though I doubt he'd remember it at this point 😉
It proves something else though. Roland GS can't be considered a superset of General MIDI like it's always mentioned.
wrote:Actually I was wrong about just the SC-88 being CM-64/CM32L "compatible". It looks like the SC-55 has all of those sounds as well.
Just tested with UW1 ... on the beginning of the game the CM-32L receives some SysEx message. Then naturally in-game you hear the Avatar's footsteps. All good.
With a SC-55mk1 booted with MT-32 emulation and working in parallel with the CM-32L (via a midiman midi thru) the footsteps are heard as piano notes... it's kinda funny as it reminds me old cartoons that play that piano-footsteps when someone is sneaking 🤣
Yeah the MIDI data is simply not compatible with the SC-55 then. If I look into the manual I see that this module seems to have most/all of the SFX in one form or another though, so maybe it is a question of redoing the soundtrack to acheive a better result with MT-32 compatibiltiy?
^ for sure the midi songs need conversion to become more compatible to non-LA synths... (also replied on the overkill situation on the other thread)
What is this DN3D track (level) that SpooferJahk talks about? I want to hear it with detail from my mk1...
