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DB60XG / XR385 repair and modification

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Reply 40 of 70, by PARUS

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I could never decide this problem by myself. And I have no friends in my town or surround who can try this. If you have interest I would follow with the great pleasure.
My questions about SW60XG are:
- is current LINE and MIC inputs have separate ADCs? Is it possible to infiltrate into LINE IN on the digital stage without encompassing MIC IN?
- what we are hearing at LINE OUT. Is the signal from LINE IN always going through ADC-DAC convertation or only under particular effects in EffectGear? If yes (only under effects) can we hear digital sound from INPUT digital stage when all effects are disabled?

Please forgive me if I seem to you impudent. Of course you must not do anything. Only if you like it or have your own interest.

Reply 41 of 70, by jwt27

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PARUS wrote:
I could never decide this problem by myself. And I have no friends in my town or surround who can try this. If you have interest […]
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I could never decide this problem by myself. And I have no friends in my town or surround who can try this. If you have interest I would follow with the great pleasure.
My questions about SW60XG are:
- is current LINE and MIC inputs have separate ADCs? Is it possible to infiltrate into LINE IN on the digital stage without encompassing MIC IN?
- what we are hearing at LINE OUT. Is the signal from LINE IN always going through ADC-DAC convertation or only under particular effects in EffectGear? If yes (only under effects) can we hear digital sound from INPUT digital stage when all effects are disabled?

Please forgive me if I seem to you impudent. Of course you must not do anything. Only if you like it or have your own interest.

Hey, sure I'd like to figure this out for you 😀 Just need to find the time to do it....

What I can tell so far: YSS205 includes 15-bit ADCs for both mic and line-in. This chip has a digital 16-bit input too, but it must be enabled by the microprocessor before you can use it... 🙁
And yes, everything from line-in and mic passes through ADC->effects->DAC to line-out.

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Reply 42 of 70, by PARUS

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Thank you for your intense interest!
"enabled by the microprocessor" - do you mean CPU? Have we must type some commands at DOS command prompt or what? And how about Windows?
I understood if all effects are disabled the signal comes through ADC->DAC anyway, right? Ie not directly like in classic sound card mixers.

Reply 43 of 70, by jwt27

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PARUS wrote:

Thank you for your intense interest!
"enabled by the microprocessor" - do you mean CPU? Have we must type some commands at DOS command prompt or what? And how about Windows?
I understood if all effects are disabled the signal comes through ADC->DAC anyway, right? Ie not directly like in classic sound card mixers.

There's a Hitachi H8/3002 microcontroller on the card, this chip is programmed to interpret the midi data and control all other functions of the card. To enable the digital input on YSS205, you'd either have to read and modify the H8 program, or intercept all data between the H8 and YSS205 with an external microcontroller and make sure it enables digital input instead of analog. Basically, enable bit 3 whenever a write to register 0001 occurs.

And you're right, there is no analog connection between line in and out (haven't checked but it seems very unlikely). The only way from line in to out is though AD/DA conversion.

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Reply 45 of 70, by jwt27

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This doesn't seem to be the case on SW60XG, here the XQ036A0 is connected straight to the DAC.

It wouldn't be possible anyway, since the YSS205 can't use its digital and analog inputs simultaneously.

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Reply 46 of 70, by jwt27

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Just looking at these cards for a bit, and noticed something. (I really should be asleep right now)

Both wave ROMs appear to be 4Mx8 types, for a total of 64Mb (8MB) of 8-bit sample data. The synth/DSP chip (XQ036A0) has a 24-bit address bus so it should be able to access 128Mb in total. The A21 line leads to XR371A0 (DB60) / XR392A0 (SW60), which uses this address line to select which ROM chip is used (XR371: pin 20/21, XR392: pin 62/63). This still leaves two unused address bits... which also lead to these mysterious XR chips.

Now notice that on both cards the ADC output from YSS205/AK4501 does not actually go directly to the AWM2 synth... this goes to the XR chips instead. From this I assume that these chips convert the incoming line-in samples to 8-bit and make it available on the ROM bus, so that the synth chip can access it as if it were normal wave ROM 😉

tldr: never trust Yamaha again when they attempt to sell you a full 18-bit synth 🤣

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Reply 47 of 70, by PARUS

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You mean that making digital in connect involves difficults as chips low-level reprogramming, right? Does this mean that both analog connections Line/CD and Mic should be disable? Does this mean that any Line/Mic effect provived in EffectGearII program should not work? or all effects should take a correct result by digital connection? Anyway how to make s/pdif OUT connection?

Thanks for a lot of interesting information!

Reply 48 of 70, by PARUS

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jwt27 wrote:
Here's the final S/PDIF mod: […]
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Here's the final S/PDIF mod:

y49j.jpg

Transformer will be mounted on a separate stripboard and connected to the pin header on top.

jwt27, tell please what kind of transformer should be used? Which parameters is necessary to know to choose it? Thank you.

Reply 49 of 70, by jwt27

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The DIT4096 datasheet mentions only "SC937-02 or equivalent", no actual parameters. I used a transformer from an old 3Com coax NIC, worked just fine. (even though 10Base5 is 50 ohm instead of 75)

I should really finish this project some time, I bought 18-bit DACs ages ago but haven't done anything with them yet...

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Reply 50 of 70, by jwt27

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Just remembered, I dumped the DB60XG's firmware ROM a (long) while ago. Should I post it here?

My idea was to figure out what the midi-out port does, see if there's some way to add code to control an 18-bit spdif transmitter, and perhaps hunt for undocumented sysex commands. Now I've ran the whole thing through a disassembler, but whoa... 512kB is a LOT of code. So far I did discover that the midi-out code is actually in place, but couldn't figure out how it's enabled, and lost interest after that. Maybe someone else (with more assembly experience than me) would like to have a look?

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Reply 51 of 70, by PARUS

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There is another one NEC XR385 which is modified for me as shown on this topic. I have a question: if DIT4096 is soldered the analog sound on 26-pin connector is absent, if DIT4096 is disconnected the analog sound is present. Is it normally?
Thank you.

Reply 52 of 70, by jwt27

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Don't remember if mine did that, will have to check. But I don't think that's supposed to happen.

by the way, since you asked about it some time ago, I'm using the ISA extension with 7 cards now and it works fine so far.

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Reply 53 of 70, by PARUS

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Really? Can you list them? If there are at least three cards with speech-part which use DMA channels this is a total victory, congratulations! Does it really contains 3 "full" cards?

Look at this:
e9045ccd6d3d9c271182dec372f5d4de.jpg
bc2e43f4d3a8157a976af66e6cbb28c3.jpg
Tell please do you see any mistakes at these photos? Show me if they are present.

Thank you!

Reply 54 of 70, by PARUS

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jwt27, many thanks for your instructions! S/PDIF mod works! The sound is perfect.
Now I really have to make digital out for SW60XG. Its analog Line out is gruesome, for the brand like Yamaha it is disgraceful. Is it possible to find in www some schemes for SW60 modding? I found only for MU10.

Reply 55 of 70, by rgwan

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jwt27 wrote:

Just remembered, I dumped the DB60XG's firmware ROM a (long) while ago. Should I post it here?

My idea was to figure out what the midi-out port does, see if there's some way to add code to control an 18-bit spdif transmitter, and perhaps hunt for undocumented sysex commands. Now I've ran the whole thing through a disassembler, but whoa... 512kB is a LOT of code. So far I did discover that the midi-out code is actually in place, but couldn't figure out how it's enabled, and lost interest after that. Maybe someone else (with more assembly experience than me) would like to have a look?

jwt27:

I want to help you to reversing the NEC XR385 firmware. I think the decompressing algothrithm and the effects processing algothrithm is provided by the ROM of the H8/300H, because the SWP00 just have access to the DRAM, Wavetable, CPLD and codec, it seems that the SWP00 just has a fixed logic or the firmware is provided by the H8/300H dynamically, I choose to believe the H8/300H can provide firmware to SWP00, because the difference between DB50 and DB60 is just CODEC, CPLD and H8/300H firmware. Maybe we can reverse the algothrithm of this card, and modify it's ROM samples(maybe I should go to get a programmer) or clone it by software.

My e-mail: h@iloli.xyz

Zhiyuan Wan

Reply 56 of 70, by PARUS

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I reviewed XR385, DB50XG, SW60XG boards and found that on XR385 there is AK4510 DAC (and on MU10 also) but on DB50/SW60 there is another DAC NEC D63200.
Here are datasheets:
www.ym2149.com/mu10_spdif/ak4510.pdf
www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/ ... 63200.html? - unfortunately not English

Now I think about pins matching on AK4510 and D63200, exactly MCLK, L/R, SCLK and SDTI (AK4510). I think that
MCLK (AK4510) is similar CLK (D63200)
L/R (AK4510) - LRSEL/RSI (D63200)
SLCK (AK4510) - LRCK/WDCK (D63200)
SDTI (AK4510) - SI/LSI (D63200)
Is it right? Has anybody some ideas?

Reply 57 of 70, by PARUS

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I still don't leave my purpose to make S/PDIF mod for SW60XG. I want to get the digital sound from its effect processor which operates with signal from Line IN and MIC. There are many effects in Effect Gear II program. Also there is unofficial program, it offers more effects than EffectGear.

Reply 58 of 70, by Jepael

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PARUS wrote:
I reviewed XR385, DB50XG, SW60XG boards and found that on XR385 there is AK4510 DAC (and on MU10 also) but on DB50/SW60 there is […]
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I reviewed XR385, DB50XG, SW60XG boards and found that on XR385 there is AK4510 DAC (and on MU10 also) but on DB50/SW60 there is another DAC NEC D63200.
Here are datasheets:
www.ym2149.com/mu10_spdif/ak4510.pdf
www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/ ... 63200.html? - unfortunately not English

Now I think about pins matching on AK4510 and D63200, exactly MCLK, L/R, SCLK and SDTI (AK4510). I think that
MCLK (AK4510) is similar CLK (D63200)
L/R (AK4510) - LRSEL/RSI (D63200)
SLCK (AK4510) - LRCK/WDCK (D63200)
SDTI (AK4510) - SI/LSI (D63200)
Is it right? Has anybody some ideas?

It depends, the UPD63200 has two different bus modes. When the 4/8FS SEL pin is high, then the 63200 has two audio data input pins, and thus is not compatible. But, if the 4/8FS SEL pin is low, then it has one data input pin and is potentially compatible.

SI (LSI) is serial audio data input, like SDTI on AKM.
LRCK (WDCK) is left/right clock input, like L/R on AKM.
CLK is serial bit clock, like SCLK on AKM. On both chips, rising edge latches data pins in.

LRSEL (RSI) in this mode is just configuration pin, LRSEL=low, then LRCK works same way than on AKM, left channel serial data is sent during LRCK high.

There is no matching pin for AKM's MCLK, as the UPD63200 does not need a Master Clock.

Then there is another config pin on UPD63200 that defines if it should take last 16 or last 18 bits when LRSEL changes. AKM takes only last 16 bits in when L/R changes.

Is this of any help?

Reply 59 of 70, by PARUS

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Yes, it is. I think so. Thank you!
Now I'll check DB50 and SW60 about 4/8FS SEL to see its connecting to ground (or not). And then will think how to connect DIT4096. If DIT4096 needs Master Clock Signal it is necessary to find it on XQ036AO chip.