Very detailed my friend!
Although I like the roland sound better (due to the balance reasons you mention as well) I'll check the tracks later and report back 😉

Tyrian's music is supposed to be played on a OPL2, I never quite understood why and how it has GM sound when the LDS music is basically a tracker for OPL2 chips from what I can understand of it.

What do these songs sound like on the SC-88 I wonder? Or would something have to be specifically composed to make use of the SC-88's sounds?

By the way, Tyrian on a original AWE32 sounds really dumb.

Here are my choices 🤣

1-Asteroid Dance Part 2

Winner: Roland

2-Asteroid Dance Part 1

Winner: Roland
Sounded more space/synthy to me

3-Buy/Sell Music

Winner: Tie
Roland sounds mode spacy though, better fx usage?

4-Camanis

Winner: Yamaha
more volume on it

5-Camanise

Winner: Roland
more detailed result

6-Deli Shop Quartet

Winner: Yamaha
same as Carlos, didn't like the synth parts on the Roland, so i preferred Yamaha.

7-Deli Shop Quartet No2

Winner: Roland

8-Ending Number 1

Winner: Roland
Yamaha is just out of place

9-Ending Number 2

Winner: Roland
seems more clear to me

10-End of level

Winner: Yamaha

same: The strings on the Yamaha sound way better

11-Game over Solo

Winner: Roland
Yamaha was muffled

12-Gryphons of the west

Winner: Roland

13-Somebody pick up the Gryphone

Winner: Roland

14-Gyges will you please help me

Winner: Tie

sounds good but different on both synths

15-I speak Gygese

Winner: Roland

better Saw Wave on Yamaha but it seems to me that it lacks the detail of roland in other parts of the song

16-Halloweemn rumble

Winner: Yamaha
Just sounds better to me

17-Tunneling Trolls

Winner: Roland

18-Tyrian, the level

Winner: Roland
Yamaha feels there is sound detail missing

19-The Musicman

Winner: Roland

20-The Navigator

Winner: Roland

21-Come back to me Savara

Winner: Roland

22-Come back again to Savara

Winner: Roland

23-Space Journey 1

Winner: Roland

24-Space Journey 2

Winner: Roland

25-The final edge

Winner: Roland

26-Strats

Winner: Roland

27-Parlance

Winner: Roland
more synthy

28-Torm the gathering

Winner: Yamaha
only by volume of the synth

29-Transon

Winner: Roland
more synthy/spacy sound

30-Tyrian: The song

Winner: Roland

31-Zanac3

Winner: Tie

32-Zanacs

Winner: Roland
Yamaha is horrible on this

33-Return to Savara

Winner: Roland

34-High Score table

Winner: Tie

35-One Mustn't fall

Winner: Roland
more detail in sound

36-Sarah's Song

Winner: Roland

37-A field for the mag

Winner: Roland

38-Rock Garden

Winner: Yamaha

39-Quest for Peace

Winner: Roland

40-Composition in Q

Winner: Roland

41-Beer

Winner: Roland

Thanks for looking into it Keropi! 😎

Hmmm... the only Roland I have is Virtual Sound Canvas, but I have to admit Yamaha SW60XG plays Tyrian music really good. However, nothing beats the SGM / Drums! by Slavo sound font combo. 😀

carlostex wrote:

Thanks for looking into it Keropi! 😎

np my friend... it was fun! the MU80 is a great unit but what really holds it back IMHO is the fact that most stuff have had a roland synth as base for their creation. Most of the times everything plays fine on the MU80 but is buried under other sounds and the track loses it's detail IMHO. Some things that sound in the foreground on the SC-55 get demoted to background on the MU80 , other times lose their strength or sound completely off volume-wise... that's the main problem IMHO

edit: I am re-evaluating some tracks with MU80/SC-55/SC-88pro (88pro possible with SC-8820 in 88pro mode) , some tracks are way better with 88pro in terms of more ambience/fx , plain SC-88 mode doesn't make much difference (not that the 88pro is the ultimate device, it can sound very weird , the tracks in question benefit because of their electronic style)

I recently played through Tyrian, and my machine had a RAP-10, an MU10XG and an AWE64 Gold.... I actually preferred the AWE for most tfacks.

DracoNihil wrote:

By the way, Tyrian on a original AWE32 sounds really dumb.

So, objectively, Tyrian's wavetable-based MIDI playback is optimized for the EMU8000 chipset. Can you elaborate on what "sounds really dumb" means, or why the "original AWE32" is specifically mentioned?

I have a few recordings available in this thread for comparison:
Re: AWEstruck...

^ really? they made it for the AWE cards? didn't knew that

Yeah the AWE cards sound great on Tyrian. I had the chance to hear the sound track when i had the AWE64 Gold in my system. As a matter of fact i think that even FM synthesis sounds great! As a musician/music lover, this was a great work in my opinion. Some of the stuff is really well composed.

@keropi

You are spot on about what holds back the MU80 and i felt it too, and mostly because like you said, for games GM stuff was mostly Sound Canvas oriented. It's a shame really, because with maybe just a couple of exceptions the Yamaha instruments sound more real to me on the MU80 than on the SC55. For instance i just went on listening on Asteroid Dance Part 1 again and the Roland is too synthy to me and maybe this was the purpose, but the Yamaha instrument set here just seems so much more realistic to me!

Didn't know you had a SC-88Pro capability. Let us know of your findings!

well , the sc-8820 has 4 modes: native, 88pro, 88 and 55 ...
I've already checked 55 mode, it sounds like the real deal (ofcourse there are differences, different devices after all)
with the help of d1stortion we checked the 88 mode, sounds fine too
for the 88pro I didn't cross-check with anyone, I assume it's fine as well

In 88pro mode some stuff sound bad and some benefit from enhanced fx/polyphony and even better samples ... at this point I treat it like something extra, I wouldn't replace a real SC-55 with it tbh

keropi wrote:

In 88pro mode some stuff sound bad and some benefit from enhanced fx/polyphony and even better samples ... at this point I treat it like something extra, I wouldn't replace a real SC-55 with it tbh

Yeah that's right, i find a SC-55 is enough. And if some like the Yamaha sound get a MU80/MU50. Of course, if someone can choose to have a MU2000EX it's a great choice since it can do GS and sounds pretty much like a SC-55.

Cloudschatze wrote:

So, objectively, Tyrian's wavetable-based MIDI playback is optimized for the EMU8000 chipset. Can you elaborate on what "sounds […]
Show full quote

DracoNihil wrote:

By the way, Tyrian on a original AWE32 sounds really dumb.

So, objectively, Tyrian's wavetable-based MIDI playback is optimized for the EMU8000 chipset. Can you elaborate on what "sounds really dumb" means, or why the "original AWE32" is specifically mentioned?

I have a few recordings available in this thread for comparison:
Re: AWEstruck...

I was pretty dumb founded by that (no pun intended) as well. Tyrian sounds fantastic on the AWE cards. Listen to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Hj8rmNmbbo

I believe its better than what Roland manages, I'll have to give the Yamaha stuff a try once more to be sure.

Where the heck does it say Tyrian's soundtrack is made for the AWE32? It seriously only makes sense to me that it was made for the OPL2 chip and the GM playback was tacked on for those who didn't have the chip, or who grew accustomed to the sound of the newer synths at the time.

And by dumb I mean how poor the default ROM bank sounds in comparison to CT4MGM.SF2, the reverb also kinda detracts a bit from my tastes. (Can the reverb even be adjusted on the thing?)

DracoNihil wrote:

Where the heck does it say Tyrian's soundtrack is made for the AWE32? It seriously only makes sense to me that it was made for the OPL2 chip and the GM playback was tacked on for those who didn't have the chip, or who grew accustomed to the sound of the newer synths at the time.

We're discussing "wavetable" playback devices, not FM, and there is a preponderance of evidence to suggest that the AWE32 was used for the "General MIDI" arrangement (including the reverb that you don't seem to care much for).

I'm not sure if this helps with the OPL2/GM question or not, but:

Alexander Brandon wrote:

...Epic's "Tyrian", and I did, in fact use General MIDI for that,
but the instruments were converted by our sound coder. The songs were
originally done with the Adlib Visual Composer, believe it or not.

I'm not exactly sure how to interpret this statement, frankly. 😵

don't know if it's just the quality of that AWE video that was posted but is it kind of flat? Sounds ok , just some instruments seem like their samples are low-res or something... and reverb seems just slapped on the sound stream 😕
I am attaching a SC-55 recording and also one from the SC-8820 in 88pro mode for my friend Carlos and whoever wants to hear the differences 😊

I wonder how "Gravis Midi" sounds ...

Awesome keropi.

Now believe it or not i actually prefer the sc-88pro version. The strings and other instruments sound more realistic/less synthy than on the SC-55. This was the main reason why i chose Yamaha over Roland on this song.

Gravis MIDI is good but actually sounds inferior to AWE in Tyrian. While in a lot of games Gravis might be better than AWE here is definitely not the case.

I wish i could provide some recordings, but the retro and Windows 7 machines are too far apart.

yeah, 88pro sounds very good but personally I still prefer the 55 on this one because of it's harsh synthy sounds 🤣

keropi wrote:

yeah, 88pro sounds very good but personally I still prefer the 55 on this one because of it's harsh synthy sounds 🤣

That's a good way of putting it...the SC-88 sounds a little more "organic" and realistic, but I still like the retro authenticity of the SC-55.

I don't know if anyone would know off hand, but would the MU50 pretty much sound similar to the MU80? I have an MU50 and wonder if I should be looking for something better than the MU50 for DOS gaming.

According to Wikipedia..."MU50 is the scaled-down version of the first XG module MU80. General MIDI, XG and supplemental voices. Effects included. AD input for guitar or microphone, but effects can NOT be applied to the AD input signal."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_MU-series

The MU80 has 16 more parts, 8 less tones than the MU50...does that mean that the MU80 has a wider range of (tones) sounds overall (becasue it has greater polyphony and parts) than the MU50 and therefore has the capability to sound better??