Windows 7.

Stojke wrote:

Thats a very common mistake many people make.

I would say Microsoft made a mistake there, not me 😀
If Windows Vista/7/8 was just XP but faster/better, I wouldn't have started this thread in the first place.

edit: somewhat off topic, I was just looking for any Ati R9-290 cards with vga output. I come across this thread. Registered there to tell those ignorant idiots why that IS a problem, only to find that they locked the thread 🙁
In any case this explains why I chose a GTX780.

What do you expect from an operating system made for new hardware? What do you mean by : If it was same as XP?
Windows 8.1 UI change is so minor its extremely easy to adopt in a few hours. Many people who comment on W8.1 UI haven't even tried the system.
I used to think some crap about windows 8 scanning my PC was true until i tried it and saw its not.

Windows 8.1 supports newest technologies fully, old drivers for everything i tried work. From Xtreme Music to SW1000XG (on 32Bit windows 8.1).
You didn't abandon windows the first time you used it, and everything was new and unknown, why do the same now?
It took me 30 minutes to get to know the new UI and customize it.
Some people rape their W8.1 with dock crap and insert/remove files just to get old start back, its like an old granpa who cant get used to a new remote and you have to put tape all over other buttons he wont be using.

Whatever you do jwt27 don't touch that Tiles 8 piece of crap not even with a ten-foot pole.

I'll just quote Paul Thurrott a few days ago:

... Windows 8 is not well-designed. It's a mess. But Windows 8 is a bigger problem than that. Windows 8 is a disaster in every s […]
Show full quote

... Windows 8 is not well-designed. It's a mess. But Windows 8 is a bigger problem than that. Windows 8 is a disaster in every sense of the word.

This is not open to debate, is not part of some cute imaginary world where everyone's opinion is equally valid or whatever. Windows 8 is a disaster. Period.

While some Windows backers took a wait-and-see approach and openly criticized me for being honest about this, I had found out from internal sources immediately that the product was doomed from the get-go, feared and ignored by customers, partners and other groups in Microsoft alike. Windows 8 was such a disaster that Steven Sinofsky was ejected from the company and his team of lieutenants was removed from Windows in a cyclone of change that triggered a reorganization of the entire company. Even Sinofsky's benefactor, Microsoft's then-CEO Steve Ballmer, was removed from office. Why did all this happen? Because together, these people set the company and Windows back by years and have perhaps destroyed what was once the most successful software franchise of all time ...

http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/what-heck-h … ppening-windows

Any technical information to back that up?
You can say thing A is bad as much as you want but at least put a lot of technical information on it.

So far not a single thing that i can classify as bad has occurred while using 8.1 for a year and a half, unlike previous versions.

Stojke wrote:

With what did you experience compatibility problems in Windows 8.1?
All major applications i used on windows 98 work with out flaw on windows 8.1.

The main Windows 98 programs I still use with Windows 8.1 are Wordperfect 9 and Paint Shop Pro 7. PSP7 works ALMOST perfectly, except certain shortcut key combinations don't work for reasons I don't understand. Wordperfect 9 has had issues since 7 due to the way it handles dialogue boxes and printing. These issues can be bypassed mostly by configuring the program to use common dialogues instead of its own custom dialogues, but this can be annoying. On Windows 8.1, if you leave Wordperfect running long enough, it can start to glitch up visually and ultimately crash. (Fortunately, once glitches start you can just save and quit then restart the program.)

I also have a program called "Texture Maker" which just flat out refuses to run on Windows 8. Doesn't even show any error messages. Admittedly, I haven't tested it again since I upgraded to 8.1.

Beyond that, most problems with older software are game related since, again, anything using Direct3D 8 only works properly windowed, not full-screen, (unless you like aliasing and poor framerates), while anything Direct3D 7 or earlier may or may not run at all. OpenGL stuff even from a dozen years ago will work fine.

bestemor wrote:

Gemini000 wrote:

Pros and Cons for each Windows choice at this moment: Windows 7 x64 Pros: Most compatible with 32-bit/64-bit software that's out […]
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Pros and Cons for each Windows choice at this moment:
Windows 7 x64
Pros: Most compatible with 32-bit/64-bit software that's out there, best driver support.
Cons: Slower than Windows 8, hardest Windows OS to fix when things go wrong.

Could you elaborate a little on this ? Is it specific for the 64bit version?
(haven't installed win7 yet, curious as to how much harder to fix things vs win8 or XP)

Every time I've run into a problem on Windows 7 it's been a trip and a half to fix. Every time I've run into a problem on 98, XP, 8, or even Vista, it's been a lot easier to figure out and fix. Windows 8 also has the ability to automagically fix some problems once you tell it that a problem is happening, though naturally this doesn't always work, but whether it works or not, the log information produced can be invaluable.

Hmm. I dont know which D3D version half life and CS are but they seem to work fine under full screen.
Have you tried the compatibility thing w8.1 has? It is kinda useless to analyze with it when you can simply select from the list, but than again it might work.

jwt27 wrote:

I'm picking parts for a new PC because this Pentium 4 is really starting to get on my nerves now. […]
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I'm picking parts for a new PC because this Pentium 4 is really starting to get on my nerves now.

I'm thinking of getting the following setup:
- Gigabyte GA-X79-UP4
- Core i7 4930K LGA2011
- Seasonic M12II 850W
- Asus Geforce GTX780
- Kingston 2x8GB PC2400-CL11
for sound I'm going to use my X-fi elite pro for now, but I'm thinking of upgrading to a PCI-e studio sound card later.

Probably waaay overkill and too expensive but I don't really care. I'm planning to hold on to this system for 10 years like I did with the P4 😀

Anyway, I'm about to hit the order button but there's one thing I can't decide about. Which operating system should I run on this machine?
If I was going to use this system as glorified console to play calladoody the obvious answer would be Windows 7 64-bit, of course. But that's not my goal.
My first choice in OS would be Windows 2000, but since Microsoft decided to break their Visual C it's pretty much useless now. Next would be Windows XP, which suffers from the same problem pre-SP3 and I fear they'll break SP3 too sooner or later. And of course, both are only 32-bit...
Then there is XP 64-bit, which seems like the ideal choice for me. But from what I've heard it's kinda buggy and has very little driver support. Anyone knows more about that?
The only advantage Windows 7 has to me is DX10/11 support... and I fail to see how much of an advantage that really is. For newer games I guess I don't have much choice, but still, it seems really awkward to pay for a forced downgrade.
Of course I could dual-boot XP and 7, but from previous multi-boot experiments I know I'll stick to either one of them after a while an completely forget about the other partition.
Another option I thought about is to just run Debian and use virtual machines for Windows programs/games. But will I be able to use my graphics and sound card directly in a VM? Won't that hurt performance terribly?

I'd appreciate it if anyone could help me decide about this...

There was an x64 version of XP, finding drivers for everything is a pain, though, as not many people were ready for a 64-bit OS back then. I have a developers copy of it around here somewhere that I haven't fired up for a long time. The driver issue forced me to wipe it and go back to 32-bit XP.

TELVM wrote:

Whatever you do jwt27 don't touch that Tiles 8 piece of crap not even with a ten-foot pole.

I'll just quote Paul Thurrott a few days ago:

... Windows 8 is not well-designed. It's a mess. But Windows 8 is a bigger problem than that. Windows 8 is a disaster in every s […]
Show full quote

... Windows 8 is not well-designed. It's a mess. But Windows 8 is a bigger problem than that. Windows 8 is a disaster in every sense of the word.

This is not open to debate, is not part of some cute imaginary world where everyone's opinion is equally valid or whatever. Windows 8 is a disaster. Period.

While some Windows backers took a wait-and-see approach and openly criticized me for being honest about this, I had found out from internal sources immediately that the product was doomed from the get-go, feared and ignored by customers, partners and other groups in Microsoft alike. Windows 8 was such a disaster that Steven Sinofsky was ejected from the company and his team of lieutenants was removed from Windows in a cyclone of change that triggered a reorganization of the entire company. Even Sinofsky's benefactor, Microsoft's then-CEO Steve Ballmer, was removed from office. Why did all this happen? Because together, these people set the company and Windows back by years and have perhaps destroyed what was once the most successful software franchise of all time ...

http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/what-heck-h … ppening-windows

Agreed.

(Quote : Paul Thurrott is senior technical analyst for Windows IT Pro. He writes the SuperSite for Windows, a weekly editorial for Windows IT Pro UPDATE, and a daily Windows news and information newsletter called WinInfo Daily UPDATE.)

Windows 8 is currently in the "bad karma" re-incarnated life in Microsoft's world - the previous bad one was Vista. 🤣

And Windows 7 still has official life cycle support till 2020.

Edit : Suggest get 7 and wait (with fingers crossed) for 9. 😁

Why isn't any of that covered with technical info on why is it bad?
Most people don't give two shits about their relationship in the company as long as the system operates as it should. And it does.

Stojke wrote:

Any technical information to back that up?
You can say thing A is bad as much as you want but at least put a lot of technical information on it.

Jesus Christ, don't get him started.

TELVM wrote:

Whatever you do jwt27 don't touch that Tiles 8 piece of crap not even with a ten-foot pole.

WAAARRRGHHH STOP LIKING WHAT I DONT LIKE!!

I did install Windows 7 just after it was released and it has been running great to this day.
I upgraded to a SSD in my main rig at the same time as I switched to Windows 7, it must have been late summer/fall 2009.
I have upgraded all other hardware piece by piece since then except the old Intel SSD and I have never even felt the need to reinstall Windows 7.
It still runs as fast as ever even tough this install soon will be 5 years old.

Edit

My install is from 14 ‎july ‎2009
So it was the Windows 7 Release Candidate I installed and then later registered when it was about to expire.

/Edit

My vote goes to Windows 7 unless we are talking about a tablet.

I can play the pic game.

Telvm thats dumb. Because the point you just shown with those pictures that anything you do on the PC as the developer intended you to do is making you an idiot.
Since you bring no actual fact except "I cant get used to minor UI changes" its meaning less to argue.

What I really want to know is how Windows 7 is ballooning up to 30gb+. That's yet to happen for me and i've used it for years. Not using system restore probably helps. My Windows folder is currently 21gb, and it generally is 16gb after the first install + SP1, and it doesn't feel any slow in the slightest.

also...

I honestly do not think this is worth the compatibility sacrifices and speed placebo. Ever wonder why PC sales have been sharply declining since 2012?

Stojke wrote:

Hmm. I dont know which D3D version half life and CS are but they seem to work fine under full screen.
Have you tried the compatibility thing w8.1 has? It is kinda useless to analyze with it when you can simply select from the list, but than again it might work.

No matter what I set in the Compatibility section, games using Direct3D 8 or earlier simply do not run well full-screen on Windows 8. Plants vs. Zombies is a good example as it ends up with horrible aliasing and a terrible framerate. A less obvious example, but still affected, is Tank Universal, as the game looks pretty much OK, but the framerate won't maintain its 30 FPS cap. (I get about 25 FPS full screen on my Windows 8 system.)

I've tried using wrappers to wrap Direct3D to OpenGL, since I have no issues with OpenGL, but none of them seem to work properly. :/

Even DOSBox is affected, so I have to run DOSBox in OpenGL mode now. (Ironically, DOSBox's OpenGL mode crashes on my Windows 98 and XP systems.)

BTW: Here's what my Windows 8 start screen looks like right now. Being able to open virtually any program I could want to run in just two quick clicks is a MASSIVE improvement over trying to hunt things down in the old Start Menu system and then click tiny little text indicators. :P

Maybe its because of your graphical adapter?
I will download those games to try them out on my system and tell you what i experienced.
If you have a list of applications you want me to test, send it.

leileilol wrote:

What I really want to know is how Windows 7 is ballooning up to 30gb+. That's yet to happen for me and i've used it for years. […]
Show full quote

What I really want to know is how Windows 7 is ballooning up to 30gb+. That's yet to happen for me and i've used it for years. Not using system restore probably helps. My Windows folder is currently 21gb, and it generally is 16gb after the first install + SP1, and it doesn't feel any slow in the slightest.

also...
http://i.imgur.com/3mF7a.jpg

I honestly do not think this is worth the compatibility sacrifices and speed placebo. Ever wonder why PC sales have been sharply declining since 2012?

Where i live PC sales doubled since last year.
But they will probably drop again due to tax being 20% now 😀

Personally I don't like the start button gone missing...I use it all the time! 😁
It's very convenient 😀

Thats fixed in W8.1.

Start screen
Taskbar

@ Leileilol: My Se7en windows folder is 10.6GB. You need to be a bit draconian on the crap cleaning but it can be done.