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First post, by ncmark

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The last computer I built was an Athlon XP2600+ running Windows XP.

The question is - where do I go from here? I definitely want to more forward, not backward (got enough retro machines). I want to go with Intel and I have become partial to Asus and I was looking at their P5 boards. Then I realized they have a whole series of these - the p5b, p5bse, p5k, p5ql - it goes on and on and on.
I have noticed that the newest ones have dropped support for "regular" PCI altogether - don't think I want to go that far.
I am a little intimated by LGA775 - the way the chips are installed and the way the coolers are installed is very different

Reply 2 of 10, by Half-Saint

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Asus P5KC adds DDR3 support while keeping support for PATA drives, floppy and PCI. I had one in my office PC for a while until I switched to socket 1155 and an Ivy Bridge CPU.

ncmark wrote:

I am a little intimated by LGA775 - the way the chips are installed and the way the coolers are installed is very different

Don't be. Installing CPUs and coolers is now actually much easier.

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Reply 3 of 10, by archsan

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X58 (LGA1366) should still have native legacy PCI too, also Q67, B65 and B75 (LGA1155). See list. Or at least the PCI implementation on these boards is perfectly usable. This I know from people who build audio workstations and still use PCI cards like the RME HDSP MADI.

Btw, thread title could be more descriptive.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."—Arthur C. Clarke
"No way. Installing the drivers on these things always gives me a headache."—Guybrush Threepwood (on cutting-edge voodoo technology)

Reply 5 of 10, by retrofanatic

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Keep in mind that only some of the P5xxx and later S775 Asus boards have support for true dual x16 sli/crossfire support...a lot only do dual x4 when you run an sli/crossfire setup. I don't think even the P5K even has dual x16 support.

That is what drew me to the x38 and x48 chipset models I have (plus the low price)....having the full x16 speed for an sli setup does not mean you will get to that speed, and most likely you will not need it for older games and such, but it's nice to have.

I like the x38 and x48 chipsets because they can be had for a good price but still support true dual x16 video card setups (as do other MB models, but I don't know which ones off hand)...they do suck for overclocking, but I don't really overclock ever, so I don't care about that.

Reply 7 of 10, by retrofanatic

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Sorry, I was assuming you understood x16 PCIe vs x4 PCIe and I am not very good at explaining things like this, but I'll try clarifying a little...

First, just keep in mind that some Socket 775 boards have only 1 x16 PCIe expansion slot for one video card and some have two or more of these slots allowing you to install more than one video card and almost "double" or "triple" your video processing speed.

Ok...now here's an example of a motherboard with a X38 chipset that I mentioned above

For example, at http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P5E/specifications/ you can see the Asus P5E motherboard specs which has an intel X38 chipset.

This X38 chipset motherboard supports dual PCIex16 video cards at "x16" mode (CrossFire Technology) wheras an Asus P5K motherboard, for example (http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P5K/specifications/) only supports dual PCIex16 video cards at "x4" mode. (Look at where it says "Expansion Slots" on the list of specs)

This is only a concern if you plan to or would like to run a dual video card setup in your computer.

If you are only going to have one video card, it won't matter because all the motherboards mentioned will allow one video card to run at full x16 speed.

So:
- with virtually all Socket 775 motherboards, if you install one video card in the main/primary x16 slot on the motherboard, that card will run at x16 mode (full speed)
- with some Socket 775 motherboards, if you choose to run a dual video card setup, some will run both cards at x16 speed (better) but some will only run each video card at an inferior x4 speed when two or more video cards are installed.

I hope this helps clarify a little...if not I suggest googling "x16 sli" or PCI-e video cards" or PCI-e slots" or something like that for more information.

Reply 8 of 10, by ncmark

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I did a search on it and realized it was about having multiple video cards - something I probably won't want to do.

I am so far behind the times I know NOTHING about PCI express

One if the reasons I went with Athlon XP on my last build is it still pretty familiar - translation still pretty old school

Are the stock coolers on the core 2 chips any good? How hot do these chips run? I have seen several boards listed in Ebay with chips already installed (with stock coolers)

Reply 9 of 10, by obobskivich

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I'd like to add/clarify on the multi-card thing, a lot of older boards won't run at 2x4, but will run at either 2x8 or 1x16 (a lot of the first and second generation SLI and CrossFire chipsets (meaning nVidia/ATi made chipsets) work like this). The Asus linked does 16+4 which with 2.0 PCIe isn't much of a problem (the quick'n'dirty is that 2.0 PCIe doubles bandwidth over 1.x, so x4 2.0 = x8 1.x), but with 1.x PCIe can be a bottleneck depending on what you're doing. For non-gaming cards even running at x1 is not a problem (even for running Windows Aero Glass). To give you an example, I've run my GTX 660 at x2 2.0 and the performance penalty vs running at x16 is negligible outside of synthetic benchmarks; I'm not saying there's a good reason to avoid running at x16, just that it isn't the end of the world if you're doing multi-card and run with less lanes.

In general if you want to go with CrossFire/SLI you should look for a board that will give you 2x8 or 2x16 though. And given that you have the benefit of shopping used, I'd probably just go for a board that supports it out of the gate - keep in mind on LGA 775 that you have to choose CrossFire OR SLI; nVidia chipsets will get you SLI, ATi or Intel chipsets will get you CrossFire (this does not mean you cannot use an ATi card with an nVidia chipset or an nVidia card with an ATi chipset; just that you can't do the multi-card). X58 and later will do "both" (not at once), but that isn't LGA 775. If you want to go with CrossFire I'd go with an Intel chipset over an ATi chipset. As far as motherboard brands - Asus is a good choice; I'd also consider the Intel box boards (especially the "Desktop Extreme" models).

Honestly I wouldn't be intimidated by PCIe - it's silly simple to work with, and honestly I don't miss AGP since migrating.

On the Core 2: they generally don't run terribly hot, especially if you allow EIST (their power saving/throttling feature) to be enabled. The stock heatsinks are acceptable - apart from a heavily overclocked QX6850 or something you shouldn't have to worry, but an aftermarket sink will potentially be quieter (that was my primary reason for switching).

As far as what graphics card to get - I'd say it depends on what kind of power you need. I like the GTX 295 suggestion, if you need that much 3D power; if you just need something that will run Aero Glass, handle HD video/Flash, and be quiet and capable I'd suggest the GeForce 8600 (or the Quadro variant, the FX 1700). There's plenty of other good cards in-between those, but keep an eye on the pricing - spending $100+ on an 8800 Ultra or 9800GX2 probably doesn't make a lot of sense unless you specifically want that model for some reason (e.g. as a collector's item). You may also consider older professional cards - in some cases they can be a decent value or come in better physical condition than a gamer card, but be sure to check the model # against Wikipedia or similar to see what the "consumer variant" is (the numbering scheme for Quadro makes next to no sense, and it's a paragon of logic compared to ATI's naming scheme for pro cards) before you commit to one.

Something else you might consider, depending on your performance needs and curiosity level, is getting a "basic" SLI or CF system just to play around with, like a pair of 8600s or 3650s or something. Sure, back when they were new it wasn't a great value proposition, but as cheap as most of the mid-range cards are these days it shouldn't be too much of a problem to track down two, and you could toy around with it without needing a massive power supply or huge cooling capabilities.

One final note: do not bother buying Quadro FX cards to do a DIY SLI setup - nVidia explicitly locks the feature out except for OEM partners (the shortlist is Dell, HP, Fujitsu, and Lenovo); if you bought a motherboard from a certified system it would probably get you around that, but it may have its own associated quirks (like being a proprietary form factor, having limited BIOS options, etc). I don't remember AMD being as restrictive with CrossFire Pro beyond it still requiring the system to support CrossFire.