I have many sets in my wishlist (um, make that wishlists 😊), each for a different purpose, but let's start with a pair of ATC SCM25A monitors. 😎

You say money no object right? Well, I'm not that big into Wilson Puppies or $100k+ sets -- think I might just get another pair of SCM25A's for use at home.

Um wait--actually I'm smitten by quite a number of Swiss designs. Boenicke SLS is one of them. I must confess that in this case, my eyes and my mind got ahead of my ears though. 😒 I've yet to audition the SLS.

archsan wrote:

I have many sets in my wishlist (um, make that wishlists 😊), each for a different purpose, but let's start with a pair of ATC SCM25A monitors. 😎

Ah, so you're a pro audio-type audiophile. 😎

archsan wrote:

You say money no object right? Well, I'm not that big into Wilson Puppies or $100k+ sets -- think I might just get another pair of SCM25A's for use at home.

Yep, this is a "cost-no-object" dream, otherwise it won't be a dream, right? 😁

archsan wrote:

Um wait--actually I'm smitten by quite a number of Swiss designs. Boenicke SLS is one of them. I must confess that in this case, my eyes and my mind got ahead of my ears though. 😒 I've yet to audition the SLS.

Ewww... ears should get the first priority!

My dream setup would consist of two plasma speakers with an arc length of 250cm, from floor to ceiling. Combined with dual transmission line woofers in a concrete cabinet embedded in the floor, with openings on both sides of the room.

That, or a pair of Stax SR-009s.

Well, if money was NOT a subject and neither was where I lived. Then I would not mind a complete Dali 7a surround sound system (meaning all the speakers would be Dali 7a except for the woofer and the center speakers) and NAD amplifiers and what not. And then high fucking quality CD player, and Rega Planar 9 (or the upgrade of that fellow). As a turn table. I am a some what simple man, but I do enjoy good sound 😀 But about computers, well I would not mind having a nice array of different computers and soundcards and what not 😀 And if I had the money, I would not mind the DOXBOX from miditemp. Cause that would seriously kick arse !

Focal Grand Utopia BE speaker series...(made in France of course)...

and maybe some of these beauties to power it and run it all...McIntosh sound kicks major butt when it comes to combining pure in your face sound and elegant simplicity.

Honestly a tough question - I think price/performance is also necessarily part of the discussion - after a point you will (or at least, I have) gotten to a place where you can dump essentially unlimited money into the system and realize almost no returns; it plateaus off after a while. For example stepping "up" from a high-quality Yamaha/Sony/JVC/etc CD player to the five-figure league does nothing at all for me, and in many cases the more "mainstream" component is easier to live with (and in some cases the "high end" player is just a shamelessly rebadged COTS player).

That's also basically where my headphone system is at that this point - any kind of "upgrade" is just shades of difference or added complexity, not any sort of outstanding, world-shattering improvements (and again, in some cases the "high end" stuff is a step backwards). And I wouldn't change a thing about that at this point, it took me years to accomplish what I wanted, and I'm leaving well enough alone 😊.

For a cost-no-object surround sound system for gaming/movies I'd probably go with the new Yamaha CX-A5000 pre-amplifier and Genelec active monitors/subs for every channel (filling it out to 11.2) - specific model selection would depend mostly on room size (but ideally it'd be SAM series speakers). I'd want an AT tensioned screen/PJ setup to hide the front channels behind; better they're heard and not seen. My headphone system could just tap off of the A5000's digital return and life would be good. I'd probably also snag a PS Audio regenerator just for giggles - I honestly doubt it'd do anything noticeable (at least for me), but it'd probably be fun to toy around with, and it likely wouldn't hurt anything. For those curious, this very heavy and very expensive box is what I'm talking about:
http://www.psaudio.com/products/p10-power-plant/

retrofanatic: Having spent some time with some of those big@$$ McIntosh systems, I wouldn't use the words "elegant simplicity" to describe the experience. 🤣

obobskivich wrote:

retrofanatic: Having spent some time with some of those big@$$ McIntosh systems, I wouldn't use the words "elegant simplicity" to describe the experience. 🤣

🤣 I was refering more to the aesthetic styling of the components themselves when I mentioned that. 🤣 ....yes, I could imagine the experience would not be "elegant" and "simple".

BTW...I totally agree with the point you make about hitting a plateau with computer sound (at least quality wise)...I am very happy with my Sony 7.1 digital receiver and Sony/Pheonix Gold speaker system for the most part....Actually I have to say, more important than just having the best sound quality to me would probably be functionality....I am partial to a higher fidelity system and playing around with analog and digital equalizer controls as well as having a system with a lot of different connectors and switching options so I could connect all my retro systems, modern systems, and entire entertainment system to and have it just work and switch among all components and computers with only a few button presses on one consolidated remote.

retrofanatic wrote:

🤣 I was refering more to the aesthetic styling of the components themselves when I mentioned that. 🤣 ....yes, I could imagine the experience would not be "elegant" and "simple".

My 2-second review would be titled this: buttons everywhere. 🤣

They certainly do have a unique aesthetic (most of the components really do have glass faces - and they really do look like a smashed TV if they've had a rough ride), and in some cases it does aid in terms of available buttons (like most all McIntosh components have a mute button on them) but in other cases I feel like it's like Apple - style over anything else and who cares if it gets in the way as long as it LOOKS cool doing it. 😒

BTW...I totally agree with the point you make about hitting a plateau with computer sound (at least quality wise)...I am very happy with my Sony 7.1 digital receiver and Sony/Pheonix Gold speaker system for the most part....Actually I have to say, more important than just having the best sound quality to me would probably be functionality....I am partial to a higher fidelity system and playing around with analog and digital equalizer controls as well as having a system with a lot of different connectors and switching options so I could connect all my retro systems, modern systems, and entire entertainment system to and have it just work and switch among all components and computers with only a few button presses on one consolidated remote.

Honestly I'd say that depending on the component type and source material, sound quality stops improving long before you get into the nose-bleeds with McIntosh and so on. OFC take that with a grain of salt, as your mileage may vary.

One advantage to a McIntosh SSP for a PC audio setup is their older TOTL surround sound preamp was one of the few models that digitized its multi-channel input for processing. If I remember right that model was called MX-151 but I may be mistaken (I know MX-151 is a surround sound preamp but it may not be the one that has this feature). OFC it only has a single multi-channel input (so that's another switcher with multiple PCs that need that feature) and is terribly expensive for what it is imho (admittedly I've never heard it WITH the Lyngdorf Roomperfect system configured, just in "straight" mode for 2ch, so maybe the Lyngdorf system does something amazing - I'll add that I've yet to hear an auto-calibration system that I'd qualify as "amazing" though).

The remote controller is easy enough to accomplish though - Harmony to the rescue. I've gone through a few generations of those over the years, and every one has handled all of the various components I've thrown at them without much issue. I don't like the newest "cloud" software associated with the new models (the new models hardware is a nice improvement in terms of the touchscreen and ergonomics though - I'd say they've finally and fully "beaten" the oldschool Philips Pronto units in that regard), but the configuration software has always been a little mickey mouse so I guess it's not too bad. Beats setting up a Sony Remote Commander with a dozen non-Sony devices any day. 😵

obobskivich wrote:

and again, in some cases the "high end" stuff is a step backwards

Especially in the case of computer speakers, isn't it? I think transparent loudspeakers and amplifiers will indeed reveal all the ugliness of computer game sound. For starter, the clipping sound of Pacific Strike MIDI music sounds really obvious on my JBL 120Tis, while the inaccuracies of multimedia speakers manage to hide it quite successfully. 🤣

Or is there any high end stuff that is really a step backward even with properly-mastered source?

I lusted after these for ages:

Unknown_K wrote:

I lusted after these for ages:

Imagine playing Wing Commander or Star Control 2 with those.... or not. The source is low-fi anyway, especially Star Control 2. 🤣

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Especially in the case of computer speakers, isn't it? I think transparent loudspeakers and amplifiers will indeed reveal all the ugliness of computer game sound. For starter, the clipping sound of Pacific Strike MIDI music sounds really obvious on my JBL 120Tis, while the inaccuracies of multimedia speakers manage to hide it quite successfully. 🤣

Or is there any high end stuff that is really a step backward even with properly-mastered source?

I'd say with some computer games hi-fi is absolutely a problem if you're dealing with clipping/compression/etc artefacts in the signal, where the hi-fi may reveal more of the problems vs cheaper multimedia speakers that may gloss over some of those issues. As far as hi-fi being a step backwards overall, I know there are some high end headphones that are just brutally revealing/unforgiving and can be hard to live with for any source material - I've never experienced speakers that are this absolutely brutal, but certainly quality speakers can show more flaws in the signal. There's also "high end stuff" that's just massively expensive but internally unimpressive, and I'd consider that a step backwards in that the performance will likely be lower than some less expensive/more common hardware (like rebadged DVD/CD players).

Unknown_L: mmmm, ribbons. Doesn't the stereo set weigh like a thousand kilos though?

obobskivich wrote:

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Especially in the case of computer speakers, isn't it? I think transparent loudspeakers and amplifiers will indeed reveal all the ugliness of computer game sound. For starter, the clipping sound of Pacific Strike MIDI music sounds really obvious on my JBL 120Tis, while the inaccuracies of multimedia speakers manage to hide it quite successfully. 🤣

Or is there any high end stuff that is really a step backward even with properly-mastered source?

I'd say with some computer games hi-fi is absolutely a problem if you're dealing with clipping/compression/etc artefacts in the signal, where the hi-fi may reveal more of the problems vs cheaper multimedia speakers that may gloss over some of those issues. As far as hi-fi being a step backwards overall, I know there are some high end headphones that are just brutally revealing/unforgiving and can be hard to live with for any source material - I've never experienced speakers that are this absolutely brutal, but certainly quality speakers can show more flaws in the signal. There's also "high end stuff" that's just massively expensive but internally unimpressive, and I'd consider that a step backwards in that the performance will likely be lower than some less expensive/more common hardware (like rebadged DVD/CD players).

Unknown_L: mmmm, ribbons. Doesn't the stereo set weigh like a thousand kilos though?

IIRC, almost all GM sound is clipped. Well maybe it could be alleviated by reducing the GM synth volume relative to the master volume.

What I worry more is the ugly hissing noise from typical sound cards like Sound Blaster VIBRA. It seems such noise is not present anymore in modern computers (like laptop), but retro sound cards tend to be hissy. I wonder if high end surround processor/receiver has the feature to remove the noise.

For dream speakers you need a dream house with a dream room to house it all ($$$$$$).

Unknown_K wrote:

For dream speakers you need a dream house with a dream room to house it all ($$$$$$).

Like I said, let's go wild!

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

What I worry more is the ugly hissing noise from typical sound cards like Sound Blaster VIBRA. It seems such noise is not present anymore in modern computers (like laptop), but retro sound cards tend to be hissy. I wonder if high end surround processor/receiver has the feature to remove the noise.

No, no feature to "de-hiss" the signal; that would remove dynamics and part of the wanted signal as well (once a signal is damaged it can't be undamaged, the damage is part of the new signal). The hiss/buzz is due to low SNR, poor quality/noisy power supply, and grounding/shielding issues (and it's likely where all of the "your computer is super noisy and awful" mythos comes from). Laptops have essentially a perfect DC power source (battery) but many will exhibit noise when plugged into their chargers. Decent (modern) soundcards should not exhibit this as they have appropriate filtering/shielding/whatnot to take care of their end. Digital outputs can also eliminate this problem as long as the noise isn't be introduced higher up in the chain (before the digital output is generated).

I've already got my dream setup. Oh sure, there's far better equipment available, but I honestly don't see the need for anything more than what I have. I wouldn't buy $100k speakers even if I had a money tree growing in my backyard. I use two different systems: a Klipsch and SVS system for movies; Swan for music.

Here's the 7.2 setup I use for movies. Warning: no fancy pants seperate power amps here. 😀
Receiver: Marantz SR5008

Front L/R channels:
Klipsch RF-82 towers

Center channel:
Klipsch RC-62

Surround channels:
Klipsch RB-61 bookshelves

Rear surround channels:
Two more RB-61 bookshelves.

Subwoofers (crossed in at 60Hz):
Front: SVS PC-12 NSD cylinder subwoofer.
Rear: SVS PB-12 NSD box subwoofer. It uses the same amp, driver and port tuning as the PC-12. It also has the exact same internal cabinet volume as the PC-12. The only difference is the form factor. They sound exactly the same and play well with each other. And man do they go low. Tons of slam, yet for ported subs, they're very quick.

Source: HTPC playing Blu-ray rips stored on file server. No re-compression. I simply take the main audio and video streams on the BD and re-package them as MKV files. I use MPC-HC with madVR for playback. LAV bitstreams the Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA audio tracks to the receiver for decoding.

I've noticed that the Klipsch speakers are a little bright for certain kinds of music, but I rarely use this system for music. Where the Klipsch really shines is MOVIES. They sound exactly like the movie theater at the mall. Dialog is just insanely crisp and clear. Surround effects zip around the room perfectly. And thanks to the two SVS subs, LFE nearly brings down the house. I'm fairly convinced that Klipsch are the best goddamn speakers I've heard for movies. While other speakers tend to do a better job with music, at the same time they make movies sound rather dull.

For music, I use a Swan M50W system down in my hobby room. The subwoofer is quick, musical and blends seamlessly with the mains. For music, these guys actually sound more natural/smooth than the Klipsch speakers. It goes surprisingly low for a 6.5" woofer. It doesn't quite loosen the floorboards, that's not required for music playback. In fact, the M50Ws impressed me so much with their musical prowess that I got a pair of M10s for easy listening in the bedroom.

Standard Def Steve wrote:

I've already got my dream setup. Oh sure, there's far better equipment available, but I honestly don't see the need for anything more than what I have. I wouldn't buy $100k speakers even if I had a money tree growing in my backyard. I use two different systems: a Klipsch and SVS system for movies; Swan for music.

Yes, but what setup would you like to use for PC gaming?

obobskivich wrote:

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

What I worry more is the ugly hissing noise from typical sound cards like Sound Blaster VIBRA. It seems such noise is not present anymore in modern computers (like laptop), but retro sound cards tend to be hissy. I wonder if high end surround processor/receiver has the feature to remove the noise.

No, no feature to "de-hiss" the signal; that would remove dynamics and part of the wanted signal as well (once a signal is damaged it can't be undamaged, the damage is part of the new signal). The hiss/buzz is due to low SNR, poor quality/noisy power supply, and grounding/shielding issues (and it's likely where all of the "your computer is super noisy and awful" mythos comes from). Laptops have essentially a perfect DC power source (battery) but many will exhibit noise when plugged into their chargers. Decent (modern) soundcards should not exhibit this as they have appropriate filtering/shielding/whatnot to take care of their end. Digital outputs can also eliminate this problem as long as the noise isn't be introduced higher up in the chain (before the digital output is generated).

Between poor quality PSU and grounding/shielding issues, which one is the more prominent problem?