They sure did.
Although there are a lot of worthwhile space flight games for DOS, none seem to have the trading/economic element that Elite had, nor did you often have the chance to just cruise around in space, relaxed. Don't get me wrong, action is great, though! 😀
The Frontier games were as good on DOS as on the Amiga, imo.

https://github.com/ewe2/newkind
Found the source code archive. I think a port to DOS could be done.
We have DJGPP. GNU fileutils and sed, and Allegro both have ports.
Haven't looked deep enough yet to figure out whether its just the Windows port of Allegro,
or something else inside the game relies on DirectX 7 (specifically, DirectDraw, which I suppose Japheth's HXGUI could take care of)

Please test the attached binary that I compiled with djgpp.

Edit: removed attachment.

I grew up with the EGA version of Elite on the PC and it was fantastic. This was on a 10 MHz 286.

Elite plus ran fine on a Pentium with caches disabled. It is not a game that is known to be speed sensitive.

truth5678 wrote:

Please test the attached binary that I compiled with djgpp.

Holy crap, it actually worked! Well, for the most part.
The original source release claimed it needed some W.I.P build of Allegro, did you use that, or was it fine with the latest from DJ Delories FTP?
Also, besides removing references to Windows-specific libraries from the Makefile, did you make any other changes?

Sound Blaster Pro support and all, its good. Just used DOSBox to test right now, will do real hardware later. Can't be arsed to do it atm because its 2a.m. and I should get some sleep.
Was able to get in game, Function-key menu navigation is good. Seems fast enough with cycles set to max. I'm going out on a limb and saying a Pentium MMX 133 or higher is best for adequate performance. Had shaded polygons/textured planets enabled; would probably be much faster with wireframes.
Flew around a bit, and picked a fight with some GalCop. After a few laser shots, it crashed and dumped back to DOS.
Could just be shoddy emulation or something, though. Again, thats why a real hardware test would be good.
Attached screenshot.

Thanks for trying this out! Maybe some kinks could get worked out later.

😀

Used allegro version 4.2.3.1. I believe the 4.2 branch or lower is dos compatible, so that version should have the latest changes along that branch.

After compiling allegro, then I modified the newkind makefile-linux file so LIBS conformed to the dos based allegro library. I don't recall making other changes.

I would guess that the page fault error is a result of a djgpp unfriendly line in the source code. The hardware test is a good suggestion to start with, however.

truth5678 wrote:

:) […]
Show full quote

😀

Used allegro 4.2.3. I believe the 4.2 branch or lower is dos compatible, though perhaps there is a WIP code base for 4.2.

After compiling allegro, then I modified the newkind makefile-linux file so LIBS conformed to the dos based allegro library. I don't recall making other changes.

I would guess that the page fault error is a result of a djgpp unfriendly line in the source code, but it would be nice if it was allegro instead. The hardware test is a good suggestion to start with, however.

The Allegro version that Christian Pinder originally used seems to be Allegro 3.9.37 WIP.

Also found something interesting. The game takes its color palette from the colors on the scanner bitmap, as I learned fiddling around with it.
But even text and stuff uses that palette, so you can't make it too dull.

By the way, some additions to alg_gfx.c and gfx.h would allow for different resolutions. 512x512 is already implemented it seems, in addition to 800x600.
Too bad screen resolution can't be changed on-the-fly, at least not that I know of.
Anyway, I need sleep.

I played this game for years on Acorn Electron at home, BBC model B's at school then later on Atari 520STfm. Still one of the best games ever made in my opinion. Still got my ST version and the computer 😀

Built the binary for the P1 architecture and used an alternate memory extender.

Edit: if the GPF error is reproducible, then it is possibly a dynamic array which is the problem. In this case, along with the help of debugging symbols, the array could be made compatible.

Edit: removed attachment.

Please be careful guys, New Kind project ended for a reason.

I think the dynamic arrays are the problem -- it's an interesting test case for the limitations of djgpp. In any case, I'll remove these test binaries very soon.

swampfox wrote:

The Frontier games were as good on DOS as on the Amiga, imo.

Frontier was an impressive tech demo, but I didn't find it anywhere near as fun as Elite. The realistic physics are what killed it for me.

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

Elite plus ran fine on a Pentium with caches disabled. It is not a game that is known to be speed sensitive.

When I ran it in DOSBox with nothing to slow it down, the starting laser sounded like a machine gun, enemy ships would deplete the shields in about three seconds and the ships were darting around like flies. Here's a video of it being played in DOSBox at the default speed;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SeoMn82rws

BSA Starfire wrote:

I played this game for years on Acorn Electron at home, BBC model B's at school then later on Atari 520STfm. Still one of the best games ever made in my opinion. Still got my ST version and the computer 😀

I had the Amiga version, which I gather was virtually identical to the ST version.

Personally, I felt it was lacking something from the 8-Bit versions. For one thing, there was only one type of space station, rather than two. Thargoids appeared in normal space, attacking you side by side with other pirates. The radar immediately marked hostile ships rather than waiting for them to fire on you, so you had an unfair advantage in that you could slow down to minimum and shoot them while you were still out of their range. With a military laser, I would often destroy groups of three ships before I even had a chance to see what they were.

As for Elite - The New Kind; I managed to find an update to it here;

http://stardot.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f= … t=6762&start=30

There's no source code though. He basically added some new equipment.

truth5678 wrote:

I think the dynamic arrays are the problem -- it's an interesting test case for the limitations of djgpp. In any case, I'll remove these test binaries very soon.

If you're going to port ETNK or make any updates to it, can you please look into the problem of the jump drive not working, even though there is nothing visible on the scanner? About 99% of the time, the scanner is clear, but you press "J" and it says "Mass locked!" Then more ships appear, you get rid of them, press "J" and "Mass locked!"

I played for about half an hour and never even got close to Riedquat. Every time I was able to use the jump drive for a couple seconds, I'd get attacked and by the time I killed them off, it looked like I was further away than when I started! You could say that I was flying away from the planet during the dogfight, but if that's the case, why do I never seem to get any closer when I'm flying toward the planet at normal speed?

Every five minutes or so, I'd be able to use the jump drive for 2-3 seconds, then I'd get attacked and seem to lose all the progress I'd made and it would be another five minutes before I could get another 2-3 seconds use of the jump drive.

It is very good to document these bugs and ways to build source ports in general. Have you tried the "cycle accurate" PCem to play Elite?

Edit: also, is Oolite comparable to the original Elite versions?

truth5678 wrote:

It is very good to document these bugs and ways to build source ports in general. Have you tried the "cycle accurate" PCem to play Elite?

Edit: also, is Oolite comparable to the original Elite versions?

I agree, and I may try that. Love Sarah's PCem. Will compile the latest bitbucket snapshot later today; recently reformatted PC, so need to grab my devtools again.

And as for Oolite, I really like it, but initially, it feels kind of "barren" and doesn't have that "soul," as Rekrul described it.
Fortunately, the game has great modding capability, and a community to back it up. Mods are released in ".OXPs."
You can either try to replicate an older Elite (BBC, Amiga, Archimedes, etc,) or totally modernize the game with pixel shaders and high-resolution textures.
Also more gameplay elements like landing on planets, treasure hunting, etc. Really great. Good example of FOSS games done right!

Here is an actively-updated OXP archive on the Elite Wiki:
http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/OXP_List

Sarah also wrote a BBC emulator (binary).

I've never played Elite. What's the best version for a newbie?

Funny you should mention this, I just recently finally gotten a working C64 and C64C and was able to play Elite on the C64. I was thinking the same thing after only a little bit of playing, the DOS version lacks the ELITE theme song written by Adrian Bell which was used in the C64 versions and the (Totally AWESOME) NES version (which unfortunately since I live in America I can only play on emulators). The DOS version features the Blue Danube Waltz instead (a tribute to 2001 a Space Odyssey) but it also has shittier visuals in comparison to the commodore version.
The DOS version:

The C64 Version:

The only thing the DOS version does have on the C64 version is the solid shaded polygonal graphics and slightly better performance. The C64 seems to lag when there is a lot of stuff going on but never enough to make it unplayable.

DOS ELITE THEME: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIGnYYuBShA
C64 ELITE THEME: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lKKy3l_5YI

I talk about it here in my video when I took a look at my Commodore 64 computers for the first time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFCOj8jxIYI

You can also hear the difference between the C64 and C64C SID while it plays the Elite theme.

ALSO I would recommend Oolite if you are new to the game. It's vastly easier to play than the originals, mainly in the fact that the controls work more like a modern game should. The original versions or Elite have weird key maps.

http://www.oolite.org/

Rekrul wrote:

When I ran it in DOSBox with nothing to slow it down, the starting laser sounded like a machine gun, enemy ships would deplete the shields in about three seconds and the ships were darting around like flies. Here's a video of it being played in DOSBox at the default speed

I'm playing Elite plus in this video:

http://youtu.be/5NUQpAZeAdo?t=2h24m43s

This is on my time machine, which is a Pentium with Caches disabled.

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

I've never played Elite. What's the best version for a newbie?

Well, that depends on whether you want to play a more modern clone, or whether you want to play one of the official versions of Elite.

For a modern remake, Oolite is the obvious choice. If you want to play one of the classic versions, the question is a little trickier because while one version might be better than another, it might not be the best choice for a new player.

I'm going to recommend the Amiga version, which you can play in an emulator such as WinUAE or Fellow. While I don't think it's the best version of Elite (it feels a little empty and predictable), it's probably the easiest to play. The graphics are colorful and smooth without being too fast, and manual docking, which is often considered the hardest part of Elite, is extremely easy once you know what to do.

If you'd like to know why I picked this version over the others, read on...

All of the 8-Bit versions of Elite (BBC Micro, ZX Spectrum, Amstrad CPC, Commodore 64, Apple II) use wireframe graphics and suffer from slowdown when you get too close to other ships, space stations, etc. While it doesn't make the game unplayable, in today's world, it doesn't give the best first impression. It can also make it harder to learn how to properly play the game if you're constantly fighting with single-digit frame rates.

The NES version, which would technically be considered an 8-Bit version, also uses wireframe graphics, but doesn't seem to slow down quite as much as some of the older computer versions. It also allows you to pay a small fee to have the station control your docking, mostly eliminating the need to learn how to dock manually. However, since the NES doesn't have a keyboard, most game functions have to controlled with the B button and a toolbar full of icons. It's not horrible, but it's nicer to be able to just just hit the key you want. Besides, a real Elite player should master manual docking. 😉

The ST version is pretty much the same as the Amiga version, but I think the Amiga version has better sound. Both have graphical icons for the cargo that you can buy and the ship upgrades, something which no other version (as far as I know) has.

The DOS versions, both the original and Elite Plus, play way too fast in my opinion. You can slow them down with DOS slowdown programs, but they have other problems. Even at supposedly safe worlds, it's a never-ending stream of ships that keeps you constantly busy.

The Acorn Archimedes version of Elite is regarded as the best. This is primarily because you're no longer the center of attention. Other ships will fight and kill each other, the police will go after other ships, etc. In all other versions of Elite, everything is centered around you. There are Archimedes emulators, but they don't seem to be as easy to use as other emulators and there is less documentation for the Archimedes version, so it's harder to figure out what keys control the various game options.

In any case, all versions of Elite have the same basic gameplay, the same flight controls, etc. Once you learn one version of Elite, it's just a matter of getting used to another version's quirks. So my recommendation is to learn on the Amiga version and then try some of the other versions. You should definitely read the manual though, which you can find here;

http://amiga-manuals.xiik.net/manuals/Games/E … _Manual_ENG.rar

Most versions use the same keyboard controls, they mostly just differ in how you access the options.

If you need some tips, let me know. 😀

truth5678 wrote:

Sarah also wrote a BBC emulator (binary).

That version is ancient (2006!) and fairly bad. If anyone was planning on using it, go to http://b-em.bbcmicro.com and get the most recent version.