Ah, so I guess I've found the reason why I cannot get surround sound through HDMI without resorting to DPL/DPLII or CinemaDSP.

So I guess I have to enable multiple speakers from nVidia HD Audio Advanced settings. In the picture above, I choose Quadraphonic speakers from nVidia High Definition Audio => Advanced Settings, then the surround speakers start sounding in the AV receiver's Straight Decode mode. The receiver's channel input lights indicator also shows four channel input as well (L/R and SR/SL).

However:

(1) the nVidia HD Audio driver insists to send multichannel PCM to the receiver. I tested it with Skyfall DVD and selected Dolby Digital from the DVD's root menu, yet the receiver keeps showing PCM instead of DD.

(2) the amount of stuttering worsens considerably. DVD movies like Skyfall stil sounds normal, but compressed video (like .AVIs or .MP4s) stuttering so bad that it's unplayable. Games like WarCraft III falls somewhere in-between. During gameplay, the stuttering is still manageable, but during in-game movies, the stuttering becomes severe as well.

Anyway, the stuttering increases with the number of applications I open, like Firefox and Photoshop. Sometimes the stuttering becomes very severe even in DVD videos, that I have to restart the laptop to make everything normal again.

So I guess it's nVidia HD Audio problem instead of the receiver, am I correct?

D'oh! I was a fool.

Yep, using Dolby Digital reduce the stuttering greatly.

Maybe too late now - but sounds like all of the issues are on the computer's end in terms of HDMI. There's nothing wrong with it spitting out PCM in concept though, and it probably defaults to that for compatibility (remember a lot of early HDMI gear only did PCM).

obobskivich wrote:

Maybe too late now - but sounds like all of the issues are on the computer's end in terms of HDMI. There's nothing wrong with it spitting out PCM in concept though, and it probably defaults to that for compatibility (remember a lot of early HDMI gear only did PCM).

Ah, so the receiver is in good condition I think. Glad to hear that. 😀

Well apart from the hissing problem, I haven't found anything wrong with it. Yes, HDMI stutters badly, but I also think it's the fault of nVidia HDMI driver, especially since the stutters become more severe whenever I open resource hogging applications like Firefox.

Anyway, will such stutter eventually damage the receiver's HDMI end?

Well I have experience with Yamaha RX-V640RDS and some Sony amp, and I can safely say if you have a PC involved then it is definitely the PCs fault.

And no, stuttering does not break the HDMI input of amplifier, it just transfers bits and tries to lock on to the audio samples and it can't and the audio DAC chip outputs stuttering analog signals and that's fine as well. However, I cannot say what the power amplifier or your speakers will like about that in the long run, trying to reproduce the noisy transient-filled garbage that does not resemble a real-world audio signal. I haven't broken anything yet.

Jepael wrote:

Well I have experience with Yamaha RX-V640RDS and some Sony amp, and I can safely say if you have a PC involved then it is definitely the PCs fault.

And no, stuttering does not break the HDMI input of amplifier, it just transfers bits and tries to lock on to the audio samples and it can't and the audio DAC chip outputs stuttering analog signals and that's fine as well. However, I cannot say what the power amplifier or your speakers will like about that in the long run, trying to reproduce the noisy transient-filled garbage that does not resemble a real-world audio signal. I haven't broken anything yet.

Why does the HDMI stutter when sending PCM? Especially, why does the stutter become worse when I open resource hogging application? The laptop is newly installed, by the way. It doesn't even have Office yet, and the CPU is i5. Is nVidia HDMI implementation really bad or what?

Ah, dang it it! It seems Yamaha receivers have incompatibility problems with certain devices. It's not the fault of this particular Yamaha receiver I've purchased, it seems. The guy on the thread has tried RX-V465 and RX-V565, and experience similar problems.

I remember a year ago. I haven't reinstalled my laptop at that time, so the laptop was burdened with resource-hogging applications, antivirus, dirty registry, and heavily fragmented hard drive. Yet when I connected its HDMI output to a Samsung flat panel TV at that time, the sound didn't stutter.

So is it true that HDMI stutter is common Yamaha problem? Well I can still use optical and coaxial.

HDMI problems - Yamaha RX-V1800, and it's a higher end model.

HDMI problems - Yamaha RX-V467.

Another RX-V465 HDMI problem.

Did you know that you can edit your own posts ? No need to make 3 posts in 10 minutes.

I wouldn't say common Yamaha problem, but common PC<->HT problem perhaps. HDMI is nowhere near as perfect as "they" would like us to believe, especially when you introduce a fully functional PC into the equation. There's no real benefit to HDMI for PCs either, especially if you don't need to spend HDCP video out/thru the receiver, as 5.1 or 7.1 lossless content on the PC is fairly rare (and it's not like DTS/Dolby lossy are "bad" in any way).

As far as the stutter - the only thing that comes to mind as potential damage would be if the Yamaha's internal relays are switching on and off with the stutter; they are mechanical parts and have a finite lifecycle, so if you have them switching a thousand times an hour you may run into problems sooner than later (e.g. instead of them lasting 30 years, they'll last 5, or something like that). But as far as blowing up amplifiers or speakers, if things aren't cranked up super-duper loud it shouldn't be fatal. That said, I wouldn't suggest leaving that situation like that long-term, if for no other reason than it's probably annoying to listen to. If S/PDIF solves the problem, go with S/PDIF.

obobskivich wrote:

I wouldn't say common Yamaha problem, but common PC<->HT problem perhaps. HDMI is nowhere near as perfect as "they" would like us to believe, especially when you introduce a fully functional PC into the equation. There's no real benefit to HDMI for PCs either, especially if you don't need to spend HDCP video out/thru the receiver, as 5.1 or 7.1 lossless content on the PC is fairly rare (and it's not like DTS/Dolby lossy are "bad" in any way).

Indeed.

It should be noted that multichannel PCM through HDMI doesn't work for Warcraft III either. Like I said, I set nVidia HD Audio to Quadraphonic speakers, and indeed, the receiver's input channel indicators shows the receiver receives four discrete PCM channels from HDMI (L, R, SL, SR). But Warcraft III only outputs sound from the front channel. My guess is that nVidia HD Audio driver does not support DirectSound 3D.

obobskivich wrote:

As far as the stutter - the only thing that comes to mind as potential damage would be if the Yamaha's internal relays are switching on and off with the stutter; they are mechanical parts and have a finite lifecycle, so if you have them switching a thousand times an hour you may run into problems sooner than later (e.g. instead of them lasting 30 years, they'll last 5, or something like that). But as far as blowing up amplifiers or speakers, if things aren't cranked up super-duper loud it shouldn't be fatal. That said, I wouldn't suggest leaving that situation like that long-term, if for no other reason than it's probably annoying to listen to. If S/PDIF solves the problem, go with S/PDIF.

Thankfully the relay doesn't switch with the stutter, only the receiver's input channel indicators that blinks - as well as the PCM light indicator.

I still wonder what causes the hissing sound whenever I enable surround processing for stereo analog input (the VIDEO AUX input). Oddly, the hissing gone when I choose Pure Direct mode. Anyway, the hiss become louder when I increase the volume. What's the cause of the hissing? Is that normal, or there's something needs to be fixed on the receiver?

Apart from the hissing sound, eveyrthing works fine. The receiver really looks new. Physically, my only objection is the broken front left plastic feet - probably due to the seller's lousy packaging.

I'd also like to note that this Yamaha receiver is built like a tank - reminds me of vintage amplifiers/receivers like Sansui and Marantz from the 1970s, and unlike typical HT-in-a-box receivers.

Try other inputs, see if hiss changes.

obobskivich wrote:

Try other inputs, see if hiss changes.

Tried CD and VCR, and the hissing intensity regarding to input channel is as follows (from least hiss to most hiss):
VCR => CD => VIDEO AUX

On the other hand, hissing intensity regarding to DSP method is as follows (from least hiss to most hiss):
Pure Direct (no hiss at all) => Straight Decode => "plain" Decoder/Enhancer => Cinema DSP (most hiss)

Wonder what's wrong.

There is no hiss when using DSP with digital input though, but I'm also going to put this receiver for my legacy system (Intel 440 BX with AWE32, Intel 845 PE ISA with AWE64 Gold), so the hissing is quite annoying (although, on the other hand, the hissing sound can actually give the 'retro' feel 🤣 ).

Sounds like its either internal noise or its picking up noise from outside. Speaker sensitivity will play a role on audibility either way, most likely.

Try moving it to another location, changing cables, etc and that has no impact its likely internal - may be defect or may just be the nature of that model (and ofc different people have different tolerance/notice levels to bg noise).

obobskivich wrote:

Sounds like its either internal noise or its picking up noise from outside. Speaker sensitivity will play a role on audibility either way, most likely.

Try moving it to another location, changing cables, etc and that has no impact its likely internal - may be defect or may just be the nature of that model (and ofc different people have different tolerance/notice levels to bg noise).

Tried it. The hissing become less severe when I swap front speakers (a pair of "bright" Kenwood) and rear speakers (more balanced Hitachi speakers), but it's still there nonetheless. 😵

Basically, it starts to be audible when I raise the master volume control above 0 dB.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Tried it. The hissing become less severe when I swap front speakers (a pair of "bright" Kenwood) and rear speakers (more balanced Hitachi speakers), but it's still there nonetheless. 😵

Basically, it starts to be audible when I raise the master volume control above 0 dB.

Lower sensitivity will mean less hissing - does cabling or placement make any difference?

As far as happening above 0 dB - the volume control on this thing goes from what to what? Like -70 to +30 or something like that? Anything over 0 dB and it's adding gain to the signal; usually that will also mean noise becomes audible as any noise internally ++ in signal will come through. Usually being at 0 dB is super-duper loud as well, so there's generally no need to go that high, and if it's quiet below there, I'd say it's AOK. I've never seen a receiver that doesn't put out at least some noise when put over 0 dB - think about it like "digital zoom" on a camera; it's gonna bring noise along for the ride. Some do better than others ofc, but none are perfect about it. 😊

If digital is dead silent it's likely because there's a muting relay internally (so that when the DAC is unlocked it's also muted), but in general you can also expect digital (esp optical) to be lower noise. With HDMI being wonky I'd say try another system with HDMI audio out, or try a non-computer device with HDMI out (e.g. a game console, blu-ray player, etc) and see if it doesn't run smoothly then. 😀

obobskivich wrote:

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Tried it. The hissing become less severe when I swap front speakers (a pair of "bright" Kenwood) and rear speakers (more balanced Hitachi speakers), but it's still there nonetheless. 😵

Basically, it starts to be audible when I raise the master volume control above 0 dB.

Lower sensitivity will mean less hissing - does cabling or placement make any difference?

Nope. 😵

obobskivich wrote:

As far as happening above 0 dB - the volume control on this thing goes from what to what? Like -70 to +30 or something like that? Anything over 0 dB and it's adding gain to the signal; usually that will also mean noise becomes audible as any noise internally ++ in signal will come through. Usually being at 0 dB is super-duper loud as well, so there's generally no need to go that high, and if it's quiet below there, I'd say it's AOK. I've never seen a receiver that doesn't put out at least some noise when put over 0 dB - think about it like "digital zoom" on a camera; it's gonna bring noise along for the ride. Some do better than others ofc, but none are perfect about it. 😊

If digital is dead silent it's likely because there's a muting relay internally (so that when the DAC is unlocked it's also muted), but in general you can also expect digital (esp optical) to be lower noise. With HDMI being wonky I'd say try another system with HDMI audio out, or try a non-computer device with HDMI out (e.g. a game console, blu-ray player, etc) and see if it doesn't run smoothly then. 😀

Well with the current (and small) speakers, I have to pump up the volume to more than 0 dB sometimes, although there's no hiss at all when using Pure Direct mode. Maybe it's just common problem instead of particular problem with this receiver, I hope. I dunno, is there any kind of damage or defect that could cause hissing?

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Nope. 😵

Not surprising, actually. It's internal noise or noise being picked up from whatever it's plugged into - either way it's coming before the amplifier section (because it changes with volume level). 😊

Well with the current (and small) speakers, I have to pump up the volume to more than 0 dB sometimes, although there's no hiss at all when using Pure Direct mode. Maybe it's just common problem instead of particular problem with this receiver, I hope. I dunno, is there any kind of damage or defect that could cause hissing?

How inefficient/insensitive are they? 😵

And yes - this sounds like a very typical "problem" (condition might be a better word) - going over 0 dB usually does produce audible noise to some extent. Usually with a very loud signal you shouldn't hear it though (it will be masked). No damage to speakers should be expected, and if the receiver were damaged/defective you'd almost certainly be seeing other problems.

obobskivich wrote:

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Nope. 😵

Not surprising, actually. It's internal noise or noise being picked up from whatever it's plugged into - either way it's coming before the amplifier section (because it changes with volume level). 😊

Indeed, and the noise increases with more complex DSP processing.

obobskivich wrote:

How inefficient/insensitive are they? 😵

D'oh! I forgot that the laptop's Windows volume control is set to barely above minimum! So yes, I wouldn't need to set the receiver's volume control above 0 db for everyday use. Still, the fact that such hissing noise exists kinda bother me.

obobskivich wrote:

And yes - this sounds like a very typical "problem" (condition might be a better word) - going over 0 dB usually does produce audible noise to some extent. Usually with a very loud signal you shouldn't hear it though (it will be masked). No damage to speakers should be expected, and if the receiver were damaged/defective you'd almost certainly be seeing other problems.

I hope so, but is there possibility - even slight one - that certain components have gone bad and need replacement? Nonetheless, the pure direct mode produces zero hissing noise - which shows that Yamaha receiver also works as excellent stereo amplifier.

PS: it kinda surprises me that a game as old as 1987 actually support Dolby Surround. Can't wait to test it on the Yammie - if I had an Amiga, that is. 😉