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philscomputerlab wrote:

Both, Doom and Wolfenstein 3D, are available through Steam and GOG.com and are actually very good releases. Doom might be missing the program to change the sound card though, but I can't remember.

And id as a company is also still around.

Well, the shell of ID, Bethesda bought the intellectual rights and half the original team of Wolf, Doom, And Quake are gone.

The old same same discussion...
Personally my morals allow abandonware. I see nothing wrong with getting all those really old games.

The legal side is something else and we can count ourselves lucky if we live to see the old games running out of copyright ;(

So while I understand people turning to abandonware, I try to get copies via GOG.

Eh, I'm still not comfortable with wares, if I want blood or shadow warrior or witch haven I'm going to buy it.

Doom is too famous/infamous (Columbine) to ever be abandonware. I'm sure Carmack & Co. still make a healthy amount of money from it. That's not true of most games from that era.

I'm talking about abandonware, stuff that is seemingly abandoned or the publisher is no longer around. I don't consider anything that can be easily bought via GOG, Steam... abandoned.
Stuff that you can only get every other full moon for shitload of money through ebay I don't consider available.
I don't condone warez but Morally I think there should be a legal abandonware term and not having it tied to general copyright that runs out in almost a century...

King_Corduroy wrote:

Well it certainly doesn't hurt ID. I mean think about it, I own a boxed copy of Ultimate Doom from 1996 I found it at the local goodwill for 2$. That 2$ didn't go to ID software right?

You're right, I think it was more like $25.00 (or whatever it originally retailed for). John Carmack personally donated $10,000.00 to Mesa IIRC.

Just to add my 2¢. I think due diligence and common sense are king when it comes to old games, software and operating systems. Sometimes a physical copy is unobtainium and the only way to get a copy is to download one. Sometimes it goes the other way.

In the old days, we downloaded and traded warez because that was the only way to get more games. My parents could only afford so many games, but floppy disks were relatively cheap.

Like it or not, warez goes hand-in-hand with vintage computing. Personally, I think the history of this is fascinating and should be recognized as part of the culture.

I read PC Gamer July 2000 cover disc had some free full dos classic games on it. Would downloading the cover disc from archive.org be pirating?

philscomputerlab wrote:

The thing is many old DOS games can only be purchased second hand. They aren't on Steam or GOG.com and nobody sells them new. Do […]
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The thing is many old DOS games can only be purchased second hand. They aren't on Steam or GOG.com and nobody sells them new. Doesn't give you a lot of options.

GOG.com seems to have slowed down with DOS based games and focusing on newer games. Quite a shame because there are still so many DOS games out there.

With big titles such as Sierra games, yes you can get the Steam or GOG.com version of popular games such as Space Quest but you can't get other games such as Black Cauldron for example. Also you don't always get the version you want. For example Space Quest 4 is the CD version. You legally cannot purchase the floppy version new.

Another argument is that often the pirated game is not only free, but the better product! E.g. GOG.com games often miss INSTALL.EXE to change sound cards. CD Audio tracks are ogg files. You don't get the installation image.

Didn't Al Lowe offer Black Cauldron on his personal site at one point? I haven't been there in ages (sine the outcry about the three Leisure Suit Larry "games" that came out and he wasn't involved in).

For those unaware, AGD released VGA versions of Kings Quest 1-3, and Quest for Glory 2. Infamous Adventures released a VGA version of Space Quest 2. And the Two Guys from Andromeda are working on a game similar to Space Quest, but different enough to avoid copyright problems. And I think GOG is set to release an upgraded version of the Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Father, with Jane Jensens input. Oh, and the Coles are working on Hero U, in a similar vein to their Quest for Glory series, and Infamous Adventure released Quest for Infamy which is a sort of homage to QfG.

*EDIT*

And this is definitely in the grey area, but certain torrent sites offer ScummVM along with all the games it supports (70GB total). Probably illegal, but it's out in the wild, so there's no putting that genie back in the bottle.

ElectricMonk wrote:

...there's no putting that genie back in the bottle.

This.

I'd rather have these things floating out there 'somewhere' as opposed to 'nowhere'.

I agree. The main issue is that Activision owns the copyrights to the Sierra back catalog, and they'd rather just sit on them, and sue anyone they feel is infringing on a brand they have zero intention of utilizing. Police Quest is ripe for a comeback (just pretend PQ4 and SWAT never happened).

I'd love to see another Lucasarts anthology, but with Disney now owning them, that ain't gonna happen. Unless you want STAR WARS, STAR WARS, MOAR STAR WARS!!1!

*EDIT*

Didn't Tim Schafer recently mention that he wants to do an HD version of Grim Fandango, but Disney put the kibosh on it? Hell, get a good CG company behind the project, and turn it into a TV miniseries. That would be a perfect produt to do that with. We don't need a Monkey Island movie, since Pirates of the Caribbean already fills that role.

That said, WHERE IS TALES OF MONKEY ISLAND SEASON 2, TELLTALE? You left it at an awesome cliffhanger, and now we're stuck with Walking Dead, Fables, and that other crappy property. *grrrrr*

Grim Fandango HD is still in the works isn't it?

Nothing grey area about those scummvm complete games torrents. Plain illegal warez.

If you like it, donate.
You can not stop peoples will to make things obtainable to those who can not buy it.

I bought Neverwinter Nights the original release among other games in a bundle.
One CD was missing but I solved the problem, this is hardly piracy but it may look like piracy if you look at the action through some shady copyright organizations eyes.

Dominus wrote:

Nothing grey area about those scummvm complete games torrents. Plain illegal warez.

A pirate I was meant to be, trim the sails and roam the sea...

Yes, technically it's all warez, but when you have no legal option of purchasing some of those games, you have to resort to other measures.

Yes, technically it's all warez, but when you have no legal option of purchasing some of those games, you have to resort to other measures.

First of, you never *have* to. No one forces you to break the law. You are NOT entitled to play any game you want to.

As I wrote, morally I'm fine with abandonware, while I have to accept legally it's not ok. (though the above expression of entitlement makes the law more moral again)

Dominus wrote:

Yes, technically it's all warez, but when you have no legal option of purchasing some of those games, you have to resort to other measures.

First of, you never *have* to. No one forces you to break the law. You are NOT entitled to play any game you want to.

As I wrote, morally I'm fine with abandonware, while I have to accept legally it's not ok. (though the above expression of entitlement makes the law more moral again)

So even when I purchased games that came on 5-1/4" floppies, and have no access to another floppy drive (and believe me, I've searched high and low, and come up empty), I'm not entitled to download that game I already own to play in Dosbox/ScummVM for nostalgia sake? Mkay. Duly noted.

For the record, I have about 50 games sitting in a closet that I can't use, due to the lack of a 5-1/4" and 3-1/2" floppy drives.

5.25" DS/(HD/DD) FDDs are very common online. Just a matter of spending a little $.