Stojke wrote:

dr_st wrote:

By not using that operating system and environment for processing of said data.
No one wants somebodies pictures and cat videos, nor are big players interested into classic user individuals. Business is one thing, home usage is another. Every system has security holes, that's why the end user is the most important aspect of security.

Yes they will. How on earth would they want you'r personal info like who you called and stuff.
Why would they want your text messages? More, wants more. As they say.
Why stop with logging those, when you can go all the way and know all about you?

I don't want them to know so they can send me adds and tell me what "I need" and can't live without.
I say F*CK out of my life and stop contacting me regarding that toothbrush I don't need to spend on.
And the government. Well.... If they suspect something, then send the police to knock on my door.
Don't snoop in my life like that. It's like having a voyour sitting outside my bedroom. My life. Don't like it at bit.

And finally.... My pictures. Mine. I have the copyright and they are not for some other use in another country.
My life. My things. My stuff....

Yeah. I know that I am just rambling away and being sour. 😉
(just had to let steam out)

KT7Aguy:

If Apple don't get their acts together on defective software.
And if MS can carry this Win10 in goal without releasing defective software.
Then my bets are on MS. Apple's software have been sluggish since ever
Steve jobs died. And looking at the state of Apple in those years when he
was not at Apple. Then I still say what I said the day he died.

That without Steve. Apple will die. And the products will start sucking again.
Little by little. Untill only the hardcore users are left.

Fine... both Apple and MS suck. You'll get no argument from me. I'll even agree that Linux is a user-unfriendly mess best left to us nerds, geeks, and social misfits. However, only one of the three is currently offering an alternative to the Huxley-ian future that I think we all would prefer to avoid. Or, at best, decline to participate-in. As much as we might dislike it, Linux is proving to be the only alternative we have. MS and Apple are certainly deaf to the voices that inspired them.

I'm no fan of Steve Jobs. I think he was an authoritarian dick who treated his employees like crap and rode on the coattails of The Woz. However, I say this:
Try out an iPad and whatever POS Microsoft is currently shoveling. From a dumbass-average-USA-consumer perspective, tell me if you really believe the MS product is superior.

For the race to the bottom, my money is still on Apple's horse.

Stojke wrote:

dr_st wrote:

Yes, but if the operating system you use installs a keylogger that is active by default, and has a clause in the user agreement that says that under certain circumstances they are allowed to shared and pass on everything on your hard drive, how exactly do you protect said data?

By not using that operating system and environment for processing of said data.

Exactly. So you understand why many users are wary of Windows 10 at the moment, once it's been discovered where it stands on privacy.

Stojke wrote:

No one wants somebodies pictures and cat videos, nor are big players interested into classic user individuals.

In principle, that's so. However, it is more the case of "who knows what something can dig up at some unforeseen future time, if they want to dig up". The claim "if you are not doing anything illegal, you have nothing to worry about" is glaringly false. You probably don't have to worry about being prosecuted and imprisoned, but everyone does things, and says things, in the privacy of their home, or between close friends, that are legitimate, legal, but with the right focus on them can harm the individual's public reputation, cause a great deal of embarrassment, undermine one's efforts in some specific social circles, etc.

Stojke wrote:

Business is one thing, home usage is another. Every system has security holes, that's why the end user is the most important aspect of security.

Yes, but there are two key aspects here, which may differ:

1. The ability to choose what you want to share and what you want to keep private.
2. Whether the leak of private data occurs due to a hack / flaw or due to normal behavior of the system.

If I choose to upload my private data to the cloud, then I am in control of what might leak, and I know that it will only leak if somebody hacks the system. It's quite a bit different when the software is built so that everything you have is automatically "shared", and it even goes to tell you that it will, by design, will share it with whomever is appropriate, under a very broad set of circumstance.

So you can see why these underlying provisions of Windows 10 (at least what they seem on the surface) are a bit off-putting, even for people like myself, who are not privacy freaks. Richard Stallman's extreme advocation of free (as in freedom) software seems to be more relevant than ever.

Lets add some more fuel to the fire! 😁

"Windows 10 May Share Your Wi-Fi Password with Facebook"

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/s/windows-10-may-s … -164057617.html

KT7AGuy wrote:

I remember saying something similar back when Win95 came out: "What will Win95 be doing for you that Win3.1 cannot?" Of course, time moves on and so will you and I...

I actually switched to Windows 95 soon after it was released - maybe it's because of age, but I remember the '90s as an exciting time for advances in technology. Up until the mid 2000s I was kind of an early adopter for tech stuff, and always wanted the latest mobile phone, etc.

Then I realised it's generally a waste of time and money to try and keep up with the "upgrade treadmill" - it only makes you a walking wallet for corporations wanting to sell you more and more stuff. I am not against useful advances in technology at all... but if I use something I am perfectly happy with, I don't see much reason to spend money and upgrade.

Skyscraper wrote:

Lets add some more fuel to the fire! 😁

"Windows 10 May Share Your Wi-Fi Password with Facebook"

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/s/windows-10-may-s … -164057617.html

Good thing I closed my facebook account then? 😁
It's nothing than adds and cluttered UI anyway.

Skyscraper wrote:

Lets add some more fuel to the fire! 😁

"Windows 10 May Share Your Wi-Fi Password with Facebook"

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/s/windows-10-may-s … -164057617.html

.... if you explicitly say "Yes, please share my WiFi password"

The Internet peanut gallery is the best I've ever seen today. So many storms in so many teacups. There's a massive number of straws, and everybody is clutching at them.

KT7AGuy wrote:

Fine... both Apple and MS suck. You'll get no argument from me. I'll even agree that Linux is a user-unfriendly mess best left […]
Show full quote

Fine... both Apple and MS suck. You'll get no argument from me. I'll even agree that Linux is a user-unfriendly mess best left to us nerds, geeks, and social misfits. However, only one of the three is currently offering an alternative to the Huxley-ian future that I think we all would prefer to avoid. Or, at best, decline to participate-in. As much as we might dislike it, Linux is proving to be the only alternative we have. MS and Apple are certainly deaf to the voices that inspired them.

I'm no fan of Steve Jobs. I think he was an authoritarian dick who treated his employees like crap and rode on the coattails of The Woz. However, I say this:
Try out an iPad and whatever POS Microsoft is currently shoveling. From a dumbass-average-USA-consumer perspective, tell me if you really believe the MS product is superior.

For the race to the bottom, my money is still on Apple's horse.

Yes. Steve was a giant dick, with no empathy at all.
Might have been a person with sociopathic tendencies for what I can tell.

On the other hand. This is what it takes to have a company making tech stuff that actually work.
If it's not some sort of voluntary achievement like the Linux kernel.

Linux is easy and fun by the way. You just have to think of it as a sort of NT/Dos crossover.
You can create a nas in 30 minutes of installation and configuration.
If you know what to do. And update everything in one command. You typed in the console.
Wich makes Windows UI seem like a big retard. Yet still I use Win7.
Wich I like for other qualities. Every system is equally hard and equally easy.
Just a matter on how you look at it and in wich perspective.

SquallStrife wrote:

Skyscraper wrote:

Lets add some more fuel to the fire! 😁

"Windows 10 May Share Your Wi-Fi Password with Facebook"

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/s/windows-10-may-s … -164057617.html

.... if you explicitly say "Yes, please share my WiFi password"

The Internet peanut gallery is the best I've ever seen today. So many storms in so many teacups. There's a massive number of straws, and everybody is clutching at them.

The issue is that if your system is not using this feature and you therefor give your Wi-Fi password to your friend or colleague the old fashioned way in clear text they can share it automaticly with their friends without realizing they are doing it. Its easy to see how the Wi-Fi password from your work could be spead to all your colleagues friends this way.

If you only share your Wi-Fi password with this new feature your friends and colleagues cant share your Wi-Fi password password further. So for people not using Windows 10 or people who choose not to use this feature its has become more dangerous to share their Wi-Fi password but if your are using this new feauture the opposite is true.

At least this is was the article (Which I doubt you even read) says. Its funny how thinking about security which some of us must do suddenly has become odd... it used to be important.

SquallStrife wrote:

.... if you explicitly say "Yes, please share my WiFi password"

That's not the problem. The problem is this:

The other problem is that Wi-Fi Sense lets you share access to more networks than just your own. You can share access to any network that you got onto the old-fashioned way — by typing in the password. Wi-Fi Sense doesn't distinguish between your home network, your office network or your grandmother's home network. If you typed in the password, they're all fair game.

So if I ever give my password to a friend with a Windows 10 device, and he, later, at some point, enables the feature, then my password can leak to his entire Facebook circle?

Granted, one can claim, with some degree of truth, that once I shared my password with someone, they can do whatever they want with it, and I cannot control it. But that's malice. The problem with modern technology is the ease with which data can leak accidentally, without any malicious intent.

The mandatory updates are kind of terrifying. Microsoft gets to push whatever binary blobs it wants on to your computer and you'll have no clue clue what's in the source.

I think the irony of a trojan virus for windows is windows being the trojan itself. Like a small wooden horse full of cats inside a large wooden horse full of men.

Actually wikipedia defines a trojan horse in the context of computing as: "A Trojan horse, or Trojan, in computing is any malicious computer program which misrepresents itself as useful, routine, or interesting in order to persuade a victim to install it. The term is derived from the Ancient Greek story of the wooden horse."

Which sounds like Windows to me. In fact if you read the rest of the bullets, Windows 10 directly qualifies on multiple terms (particularly data theft and spying, surveillance and stalking): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trojan_horse_(computing)

blank001 wrote:

The mandatory updates are kind of terrifying. Microsoft gets to push whatever binary blobs it wants on to your computer and you'll have no clue clue what's in the source.

That's kind of always been the case though, even though we did get to read about KBxxxxx and what files it changed, we still didn't know what they actually did. But the mandatory updates thing is kind of silly, ATLEAST Windows 10 Pro users can "defer" them for a few months, but thats still not ideal.

.... if you explicitly say "Yes, please share my WiFi password"

The Internet peanut gallery is the best I've ever seen today. So many storms in so many teacups. There's a massive number of straws, and everybody is clutching at them.

Sorry but I can't see any reason to even have the capability to automatically share my password.

That's kind of always been the case though, even though we did get to read about KBxxxxx and what files it changed, we still didn't know what they actually did. But the mandatory updates thing is kind of silly, ATLEAST Windows 10 Pro users can "defer" them for a few months, but thats still not ideal.

There has to be a reason that they are forcing updates

Skyscraper wrote:

I do not really care what the NSA knows about me but I do care if private corporations do similar profiling and keeps a record with all information about me they can get their hands on even if its only for advertising purposes.

Especially for advertising purposes.

brostenen wrote:

Yes they will. How on earth would they want you'r personal info like who you called and stuff. Why would they want your text mes […]
Show full quote

Stojke wrote:

dr_st wrote:

By not using that operating system and environment for processing of said data.
No one wants somebodies pictures and cat videos, nor are big players interested into classic user individuals. Business is one thing, home usage is another. Every system has security holes, that's why the end user is the most important aspect of security.

Yes they will. How on earth would they want you'r personal info like who you called and stuff.
Why would they want your text messages? More, wants more. As they say.
Why stop with logging those, when you can go all the way and know all about you?

I don't want them to know so they can send me adds and tell me what "I need" and can't live without.
I say F*CK out of my life and stop contacting me regarding that toothbrush I don't need to spend on.
And the government. Well.... If they suspect something, then send the police to knock on my door.
Don't snoop in my life like that. It's like having a voyour sitting outside my bedroom. My life. Don't like it at bit.

And finally.... My pictures. Mine. I have the copyright and they are not for some other use in another country.
My life. My things. My stuff....

Yeah. I know that I am just rambling away and being sour. 😉
(just had to let steam out)

You can turn all those "features" off. Unlike Apple, that has an opt in model where the technologies are turned off by default and you have to opt in to turn them on, Microsoft uses an opt out model, where it is on by default and you have to opt out to turn it off.

http://www.windowscentral.com/how-turn-cortan … ring-windows-10

smeezekitty wrote:

There has to be a reason that they are forcing updates

To simplify their support procedures, no doubt. When everyone is updated to the same version, there are fewer configurations around, and debug is easier. As a support technician, it would be quite annoying to spend time trying to solve someone's problem, only to realize that it's been resolved by an earlier update that hasn't been installed. And to have it happen again and again.

sliderider wrote:

Unlike Apple, that has an opt in model where the technologies are turned off by default and you have to opt in to turn them on, Microsoft uses an opt out model, where it is on by default and you have to opt out to turn it off.

Exactly. But the two models are not equivalent. The opt-out model in anything pertaining to privacy clearly favors the corporation at the expense of the end-user.

I felt like MS was on the right track for a while, releasing Win10 for free, releasing Visual Studio for free, open-sourcing .net/C# and porting the whole thing to linux and mac, and now they suddenly fill their OS with spyware. I don't know what to think of them anymore.

Windows 11 will be a mandatory update from Windows 10 I predict.

I may be beating a dead trojan horse here, but there are unsettling things straight from their privacy statement:

Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatem … nt/default.aspx

If that isn't enough I don't know what is.

A day of digging through the net and reading articles...
Still not want Win10 on my computers, going for Linux when Win7 is "dead".