Reply 460 of 468, by wiretap
digger wrote on 2020-10-18, 12:43:
Hmmm, I checked on-line, and I'll admit that there are indeed quite a few more hydrogen stations in for instance Germany at this […]robertmo wrote on 2020-10-18, 12:26:
Germany has quite a lot. Japan has even more than superchargers. South Korea has quite a few too. Many western and northern Euro […]digger wrote on 2020-10-18, 11:25:
where are all the hydrogen stations?
Germany has quite a lot.
Japan has even more than superchargers.
South Korea has quite a few too.
Many western and northern European cities have them too.
Hmmm, I checked on-line, and I'll admit that there are indeed quite a few more hydrogen stations in for instance Germany at this point than I had expected.
I remain skeptical, though. Most hydrogen is still produced as a by-product from fossil fuel production, and there are still only a handful of FCEV models available to choose from. Also, you can't charge them at home or at a destination charger, so you'd be completely dependent on those (still relatively rare) hydrogen stations to keep them fuelled.
By the way, a hydrogen station is still considerably more expensive to build than an EV fast charging station.
Cost per station is comparable for material and installation costs when starting from scratch. For a customer building like you see at standard gas stations (1500-3000sq.ft), plus 8 charging/fueling stalls, it will run you a little over $1M-$1.5M on commercial property on average in the US. The only difference between hydrogen and BEV is the infrastructure required. With hydrogen you would need trucks to refill the main tank (easy, cheap).. with a charging station, you need to have the electricity available on your leg of the grid - if you're already at capacity it get very expensive. But of course an 8-bay fast charging setup is only about $300k installed for the parts/labor, not including grid interconnect costs. For a hydrogen filling station and 8-bay setup, it is about $500k but would use the same style truck-fill that stations are already used to and don't have to up front the grid issues and costs which will easily exceed $200k if you need a new 22kV feed (and the corresponding 480V xfmrs) run from a 120kV leg. (highly likely across most of the US at least)
As more and more charging stations pop up, this becomes a problem since it is like every animal (charging station) in the jungle (city/town) trying to fight for the same watering hole (grid) that's drying up. It would be awesome to have fast chargers as prevalent as gas stations, but it isn't feasible from both an infrastructure standpoint and a cost standpoint anytime soon. The majority of people will need to supplement with slow chargers in their home, unless they get a direct 480VAC feed to their house if they are lucky enough to have a 22kV feed in their back yard - but once they see the cost to install it they will quickly say no. (had a 480V xfmr installed at my grandfather's house for some of his sword making machinery, and the electric company also charges you with a power factor multiplier - $40k installed)
Maybe it is just the difference in our countries, but we drive a lot and need tons of fuel stations.. sometimes multiple gas stations on every major intersection. We already fight for gas pumps and have lines to get into stations at rush hour. Converting all this for electrical needs is an immense challenge that far exceeds a liquid fuel. We would need even more charging stations than gas stations since the wait to charge exceeds a 5 minute 100% fill for liquid.