I'd really like to know what's the newest modern browser that could be wrangled to work into the Win16 biosphere. Win9x had the Seamonkeys through KernelEx...

Also I doubt there's been Win16 malware in the past decade 😀 but probably certainly there's some out there to target lazy corporate infrastructures that haven't jumped from Win3x yet...

Others: http://www.glennmcc.org/arachne/ ; http://elinks.or.cz/screenshots/frames-and-tables.png

oh shit how did I read 9x as 3x?

Anyway, kernelex a Seamonkey and have a software firewall at least. Outpost 1.0 should be okay.

King_Corduroy wrote:

I have heard that because it's so old and no one is using it that it's much safer

Sssshhhh.. lets keep this between ourselves. 🤣

From my understanding, malware is written in code for 32 / 64 bit systems... pretty much all versions of Windows after 98 were all minimum 32 bit programing. 98 was a hybrid and could be ran in either 16 (primarily) or a 32 bit version which was later released. Anything pre-98... and you're laughing, as there no longer seems to be any malware written for 16 bit programs or the hardware architechture designed to run them.

This is the key reason military still use 386's. 😁

I would think you are pretty safe generally speaking...basic web browsing and using email with a firewall ...but like others have said your still vulnerable to DoS attacks and those old school packet storm exploits like land.c / nestea.c that would instantly take a windows 95 machine down with a hard crash.

leileilol wrote:

oh shit how did I read 9x as 3x?

Anyway, kernelex a Seamonkey and have a software firewall at least. Outpost 1.0 should be okay.

Yeah I was pretty confused 🤣 I thought you were making some weird joke. 🤣

rgart wrote:

I would think you are pretty safe generally speaking...basic web browsing and using email with a firewall ...but like others have said your still vulnerable to DoS attacks and those old school packet storm exploits like land.c / nestea.c that would instantly take a windows 95 machine down with a hard crash.

Ok good to know, so my next question is then: Is there a way to keep such a system safe?

Interesting thread. My old Retro-PC has Win98se with IE5.5. Some old Websites still work with this combination,
but mostly the Webbroweser hangs up and needs to be quitted external through the task-manager.

Currently I use an old 3.1.4 Version of McAfee Virus Scan. The Scan Engine and the Vir-Def is around 1998.
My Version is an OEM Version that does not expire. I could not find updates of the Vir-Def yet.

I also tested Norton Anti Virus 4.x. Norton AV really slows down the machine, so I went back to McAfee.

Doc

I've wondered before if it's possible to make a browser (regardless of operating system) that could be absolutely bullet proof. I know nothing of Flash/Java/etc, so my view is probably worthless, but I would think that you could write a browser that would never write to the hard drive or to any memory address it wasn't allowed to, so no matter how bad any malware was, the browser wouldn't run any potentially dangerous code as it wouldn#t even run safe code if that code tried to alter the host PC. Would this be possible?

Anyway, TC, could you not use a low demand Linux distribution instead of Windows 9x, if you're using older hardware? Granted that's not what you want, but it might work, I don't know.

Kerr Avon wrote:

I've wondered before if it's possible to make a browser (regardless of operating system) that could be absolutely bullet proof. I know nothing of Flash/Java/etc, so my view is probably worthless, but I would think that you could write a browser that would never write to the hard drive or to any memory address it wasn't allowed to, so no matter how bad any malware was, the browser wouldn't run any potentially dangerous code as it wouldn#t even run safe code if that code tried to alter the host PC. Would this be possible?

Anyway, TC, could you not use a low demand Linux distribution instead of Windows 9x, if you're using older hardware? Granted that's not what you want, but it might work, I don't know.

You could yeah, but at that point why not just use my main linux machine then. 🤣 The novelty is in using an operating system to do modern tasks that no one would expect it to be able to do. I would love it if somehow someone did make a browser for Windows 98 like you say that was invulnerable and capable of rendering modern web pages in an efficient fashion. 😁

It would be pretty neat to be able to use my old Packard Bell for email and the like just for fun, I already use it for balancing my checkbook and general word processing.

If you're just using 98 to download the odd driver or utility or patch, and you only go on sites that are reasonably unlikely to be infected anyway, I reckon you'll probably be ok without any firewall or anti-virus. I assume being behind a router gives some defence too.

Should falconfly or vogonsdrivers get infected of course that might be a problem.

Routine web browsing using 98 - seems no point to me at all, websites are bloated or don't work, never mind whether there's any risks.

Using Firefox 2 + Noscript addon on my Duron 950. Works well enough, even with multiple tabs. I don't really care for the data on that PC, and I only ever browse the internet in that PC to google for drivers or peek at what's happening at Vogons so it should be fine without an AV or software firewall.

Everyday browsing is a task for my main machine, though, with all the bells and whistles the Web has to offer.

Assuming the win32 ver of Lynx works on 9x then I'd imagine that would be the most recent and "secure" browser that could run on 9x without using software like kernelex.
http://invisible-island.net/lynx/
http://lynx.invisible-island.net/current/CHANGES.html

There's also the DOS port:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#! … gpp/flY264GkHV8

I've been taking my WFW 3.11 system online since I got my 3com Etherlink III card working a week or so back. No problems so far but I've been playing safe by only going to sites I trust like Anandtech and here. I've also been using mIRC to join IRC and Outlook to browse Usenet but I am also playing it safe by only joining chans/groups I trust.

So far no problems but I guess it is not outside the realm of possibility that someone could hack my network. I honestly think that most have given up on compromising such old systems though and moved on to better prospects.

A key question is: who cares? When you have no PII on the Windows 9X machine there is nothing of value to be taken by cyber criminals.

I have used a Windows 98 box to play CivNet for days on end earlier this year: never an issue.

PeterLI wrote:

A key question is: who cares? When you have no PII on the Windows 9X machine there is nothing of value to be taken by cyber criminals.

I have used a Windows 98 box to play CivNet for days on end earlier this year: never an issue.

Precisely this. I seriously doubt any malware makers are targeting Windows 9X-based systems, if only because of the age. I've had various 9X-based systems online at various points over the past several years, without any active firewall or antivirus, and I've never had any issues with malware infecting any of my systems, though this could be because I tend to be really cautious when it comes to things like this. In other words: I only stick to sites I know are safe.

retro cyber criminals of course.

they spend years tracking down that elusive, rare piece of hardware and the associated operating system, beautiful in it's simplicity and ease of hacking. why do they do it? some do it for old times sake, some do it because their dads and uncles did. Some just love those old systems. For some it's not even about hacking any more, it's more the interaction they crave. many of them keep journals crammed with lists of nothing much at all, or plastic boxes full of rubbish for reasons they can't understand themselves. the more sophisticated set up virtual machines to hack from... other virtual machines... still others use dosbox.

retro addiction is a broad church.

ratfink wrote:

still others use dosbox.

No sorry that's not allowed. DOSBox only supports games, not hacking 😜

There are billions of devices online so the changes of being targeted are < 1%. Plus most devices are behind device firewalls nowadays.