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Reply 120 of 183, by dr_st

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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-11-22, 17:13:

Growing up with the Imperial systems of measurement it is easy for me to visualize these units of measurement.
It is not so easy to visualize units of measurement in metric.

Wow, you seem to be more obsessed with the metric system than with iPads. That's like the fourth time you try to derail this thread.

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Reply 121 of 183, by ShovelKnight

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We're quite lucky that it's English that is the modern lingua franca. It's rather simple as far as languages go (its slightly tricky phonetics notwithstanding). If it was a language with non-rudimentary conjugation, declension etc., our life would be much more difficult.

Reply 122 of 183, by Caluser2000

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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-11-22, 17:13:

Growing up with the Imperial systems of measurement it is easy for me to visualize these units of measurement.
It is not so easy to visualize units of measurement in metric.

I grew up with imperial measurement as well and worked on British and US military aircraft/equipment for 23 years. Get over it and get back on the thread topic will you Clueless.

There's a glitch in the matrix.

Reply 123 of 183, by Errius

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How do you say "old computer user" in other languages?

In English this is an ambiguous phrase. It can mean both "old user of computers" and "user of old computers". You have to decide which meaning is correct from the context (on this forum both are probably appropriate...)

“Your mission is to attack and destroy the Apple Computer manufacturing plant. You are allotted 35 bombs and 60 lasers."

Reply 125 of 183, by xcomcmdr

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ShovelKnight wrote on 2020-11-22, 20:31:

We're quite lucky that it's English that is the modern lingua franca. It's rather simple as far as languages go (its slightly tricky phonetics notwithstanding). If it was a language with non-rudimentary conjugation, declension etc., our life would be much more difficult.

The truth is that English is very complicated, you are only used to it.

Reply 127 of 183, by brostenen

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Errius wrote on 2020-11-22, 14:41:

Oh yes, this is something that people who learn English from movies don't understand. Swearing is bad. Don't drop F-bombs into casual conversation. That's going to get you into trouble in English-speaking countries. Hollywood isn't real.

brostenen wrote on 2020-11-22, 10:12:

Both yes and no. America went into isolation politics, after WW1. The US President at that time (Woodrow Wilson), was in the opinion, that is was in the best interrest of the US. However, nobody was able to stop the spread of culture, hence the world took in everything the roaring 20's provided of US culture. The spread of English was cultural and not political driven at that time. It sure did change during the 1940's.

Wilson actually wanted the U.S. to join the League of Nations and play an active role in the world, but he failed to convince his countrymen of this, and soon died anyway. Most Americans at that time just wanted to go home and forget about Europe and its problems.

Yes. That is true, with wilson as well. He saw the league of nations was unable to cope with problems all over. So he abandoned his wishes and drew back into insolation. But so much happened back then.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

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Reply 128 of 183, by brostenen

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drosse1meyer wrote on 2020-11-22, 14:49:
Not to derail the topic, but the USA has generally flip flopped with isolationism, unsurprisingly being used as a political foot […]
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brostenen wrote on 2020-11-22, 10:12:
drosse1meyer wrote on 2020-11-20, 21:22:

Something I didnt see mentioned - the British Empire reigned over much of the world for a very long time. This surely was a major factor in spreading English around the globe. Then the US took the baton after WW1 and WW2, which enhanced this even more - global economic dominance, cultural dominance (e.g. Hollywood), center of world diplomacy (the U.N.), etc etc.

As a native English speaker, I have no conception of how difficult the language is for foreigners to master, I've heard there are pros and cons. Apparently there are a lot of 'sss' sounds in English? idk. At least we don't have to memorize noun genders.

Both yes and no. America went into isolation politics, after WW1. The US President at that time (Woodrow Wilson), was in the opinion, that is was in the best interrest of the US. However, nobody was able to stop the spread of culture, hence the world took in everything the roaring 20's provided of US culture. The spread of English was cultural and not political driven at that time. It sure did change during the 1940's.

Not to derail the topic, but the USA has generally flip flopped with isolationism, unsurprisingly being used as a political football. The late 1800s and early 1900s were littered with the US intervening in other countries, most notably in the Caribbean (Cuba, Haiti), the Philippines, and don't forget Commodore Perry "opening Japan" to the world. This was furthered via "Wilsonianism."

Woodrow Wilson was one of the worst US presidents ever, who was only elected because Teddy Roosevelt split the Republican votes by running as a third party. Wilson was very imperialistic and authoritarian in his writings and he bought into the Southern 'lost cause revisionism.' This perpetuated much of the racism which eventually institutionalized in the south in the form of Jim Crow laws, and the creation of the KKK. I mean come on, he even had a viewing for "Birth of a Nation" at the White House.

Ironically, Wilson campaigned on neutrality in 1916, despite his earlier imperialistic positions, but you have to remember, he flip flopped on that as well , as shown in 1917. He also pushed through the terrible Espionage and Sedition Acts, smothering free speech and civil liberties, and turned a blind eye to the increased racial bloodbaths in the south as well as terrorizing his own citizens with the 'intelligence agencies' (e.g. the M.I.D.) created during the war years.

Obviously he ended up entering WW1, ostensibly his ultimate goal was the "League of Nations" but that was an utter failure as well, as the US Congress refused to ratify. Perhaps he should have stuck to concentrating on domestic issues.

There was definitely a renewed isolationist mindset in the 30s due to the recent memory of WW1, but again, public sentiments can change, for various reasons.

Not giving Wilson any credit whatsoever. Only saying that because of what actually happened back then, the spread of English was cultural driven and not driven by politics. Mostly it just spread in Europe with the music scene and stuff like that. It was a fine thing to speak English back then, especially when jazz came along.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk

001100 010010 011110 100001 101101 110011

Jah ich will trynen... Die Leute wie macht scheisse in dem Grünen.

Reply 129 of 183, by brostenen

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xcomcmdr wrote on 2020-11-23, 10:02:
ShovelKnight wrote on 2020-11-22, 20:31:

We're quite lucky that it's English that is the modern lingua franca. It's rather simple as far as languages go (its slightly tricky phonetics notwithstanding). If it was a language with non-rudimentary conjugation, declension etc., our life would be much more difficult.

The truth is that English is very complicated, you are only used to it.

Just be happy that it is not Danish. 😁

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk

001100 010010 011110 100001 101101 110011

Jah ich will trynen... Die Leute wie macht scheisse in dem Grünen.

Reply 130 of 183, by dr_st

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xcomcmdr wrote on 2020-11-23, 10:02:

The truth is that English is very complicated, you are only used to it.

Not really. It's probably roughly middle of the pack as far as language complexity goes. The phonetics are the only tricky thing, but even those follow well-established patterns 95% of the time.

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Reply 131 of 183, by brostenen

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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-11-22, 17:13:

Growing up with the Imperial systems of measurement it is easy for me to visualize these units of measurement.
It is not so easy to visualize units of measurement in metric.

Measurements and language is not the same. However metric are way more easy. Yes you have a visual memmory on what a gallon is, however I have that as well with litre. In metric, you more or less just have to move the dott or comma in order to convert units.

If you need to know how many miles 42,59 foots are, then you need to calculate. In metric we just move the comma if we need to know how many kilometers 46,52 meters are.

How many litres of water is one ton? 1000 to be exact. How much does one cubic meter of water weigh? A ton is the answer. Water freeze solid at 0 degree celcius, evaporates at 100 degree celcius.

As you see, metric is way easier, than converting between imperial. So your argument is wrong, it just seems more easy, because you are used to it.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk

001100 010010 011110 100001 101101 110011

Jah ich will trynen... Die Leute wie macht scheisse in dem Grünen.

Reply 132 of 183, by chinny22

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Jo22 wrote on 2020-11-21, 06:38:

This me reminds me of my English teacher from back then.
If I remember correctly, the sad consequence was, that English language degrades animals to objects ("it").
With the exception to pets, which can have a "she" or "he" because they are humanzid when we give them names.

I found this statement really interesting and thought about it all weekend 😀
On the one hand it's not really true. eg in English we would say

The Panda climbed a tree. Gender is unknown.
If we wanted the Panda's sex to be known we just add the male/female panda climbed the tree.

In French it would be Le Panda climbed a tree. "Le" been masculine, therefore all Panda's are assumed male unless stated otherwise?

Like wise we would say the person climbed a tree. boy? girl? who knows.
In French it's la personne, so girl by default.

That said I doubt anyone other then vet's or farmers would call a cow by it's gender. We all know its a female but would always just say The cow.

Naturally none of this matters, say la personne to any French speaker and they'll know your not specifically talking about a girl.
Say The Person in English and no one thinks you just degraded them to an object.

Was an interesting observation. I asked my wife (native spanish speaker) about the Panda example and she thought it was a good question as well

Reply 133 of 183, by jesolo

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Errius wrote on 2020-11-22, 21:10:

How do you say "old computer user" in other languages?

In English this is an ambiguous phrase. It can mean both "old user of computers" and "user of old computers". You have to decide which meaning is correct from the context (on this forum both are probably appropriate...)

In my native language, it will have the same ambiguous meaning, if I were translate "old computer user" directly.
There are many phrases (and sometimes single words) like that across different languages - it depends on the context in which you use it.

Reply 134 of 183, by henryVK

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Errius wrote on 2020-11-22, 14:41:

Oh yes, this is something that people who learn English from movies don't understand. Swearing is bad. Don't drop F-bombs into casual conversation.

Swearing is also bad in most other cultures but speaking a foreign language, to most people, is often a little like having a second personality. What I mean is that there can be a fair degree of dissociation between the words and their meaning, connotation, cultural background etc. causing the speaker to mis-step, misjudge or simply act out. I sometimes feel that a lot of Americans, having so little pressure to learn a second language and being used to thinking about other languages mostly in terms of stereotypes, lack an understanding for what it means to be navigate a second(-hand) language and it's culture. It can be like having to carry an extra pair of glasses that you use but sometimes what you see through them makes no sense.

Anyway, that's of course only one aspect but I think about that a lot.

Reply 135 of 183, by Intel486dx33

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Yes, speech is how we communicate with each other. You should read your dictionaries and master your native language.
( Word dictionaries, medical dictionaries, religious dictionaries, encyclopedias )
Even if you don’t understand some of it it will help improve your vocabulary and you will learn most of it.

Reply 136 of 183, by Errius

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I know a European girl/woman who learned English as a second language and who curses like a sailor when she speaks it. I have repeatedly warned her about this. But she never curses in her own language - that would be low class behavior. It's just swearing in English that's OK.

“Your mission is to attack and destroy the Apple Computer manufacturing plant. You are allotted 35 bombs and 60 lasers."

Reply 137 of 183, by chinny22

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Errius wrote on 2020-11-23, 11:54:

I know a European girl/woman who learned English as a second language and who curses like a sailor when she speaks it. I have repeatedly warned her about this. But she never curses in her own language - that would be low class behavior. It's just swearing in English that's OK.

If it's a 2nd language then there is a level of disconnect from the words and their meaning.
Couple of Italian girls I flat shared with in London probably said the F word a bit more then acceptable by UK standards. I also guess even the Italian translation may not be that bad in someone's 1st language.

just as I had no problem saying the Italian translation of "Pig God" which is very rude as 1) it's not my language so didn't grow up been told its rude and 2) The English translation isn't offensive either.
I actually found it kind of funny they are so offended about calling God a pig even though not religious. They probably thought why is a word meaning sex so bad?

Reply 138 of 183, by ShovelKnight

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xcomcmdr wrote on 2020-11-23, 10:02:
ShovelKnight wrote on 2020-11-22, 20:31:

We're quite lucky that it's English that is the modern lingua franca. It's rather simple as far as languages go (its slightly tricky phonetics notwithstanding). If it was a language with non-rudimentary conjugation, declension etc., our life would be much more difficult.

The truth is that English is very complicated, you are only used to it.

Well, as a native Russian speaker who also speaks Ukrainian and who studied Old Church Slavonic and Latin in college, let me disagree with you. The basics of English are very simple. Of all major languages, it's also the closest to being a purely analytic language.

I'm not disparaging it, mind you. In fact, I admire its rational and concise nature. After living primarily in English-speaking countries for many years, my native language now feels clumsy and unnecessarily wordy 😀

Reply 139 of 183, by digistorm

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I would say there is a point where simplicity starts to work against you. I feel in English that you need a lot of auxiliary words to make your statements precise. In my own language, Dutch, it is heading in the same direction. We lost the noun cases, but now we are injecting extra words to describe the same thing.