wrote:You mean different mapping? Doom doesn't come with GUS patches, but with a (sometimes) bugged instrument map. Try this: http://www.flaterco.com/kb/DOOM/DMXGUS/
Well, regardless, MegaEm sounded better to me. I suggest everyone to try it and make up their own mind.
wrote:The main reason why a lot of the GOG ones are not the best choice to use for pure DOS play is they intentionally removed a lot of the necessary installation/setup files to configure the sound and video options. So any true pure DOS gamer needs to buy the original game box containing the original media unaltered.
Wow, that came off sounding pretty elitist. So I'm not a pure DOS gamer then by your definition. Cool.
wrote:I thought I could troubleshoot your 486 system to see if these methods could get around the 528MB issue but since this isn't important anymore. 😊
I never asked for help, and it never was important. Like I said, I was just stating a fact that digital DOS games can sometimes be troublesome to get working on a real DOS system.
The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks
95DosBox is the new expert in town, but then his handle kinda suggests he uses DosBox (like GOG). Or is that a Windows95 DOSBox? Me confused 😕
Life? Don't talk to me about life.
wrote:Wow, that came off sounding pretty elitist. So I'm not a pure DOS gamer then by your definition. Cool. […]
wrote:The main reason why a lot of the GOG ones are not the best choice to use for pure DOS play is they intentionally removed a lot of the necessary installation/setup files to configure the sound and video options. So any true pure DOS gamer needs to buy the original game box containing the original media unaltered.
Wow, that came off sounding pretty elitist. So I'm not a pure DOS gamer then by your definition. Cool.
wrote:I thought I could troubleshoot your 486 system to see if these methods could get around the 528MB issue but since this isn't important anymore. 😊
I never asked for help, and it never was important. Like I said, I was just stating a fact that digital DOS games can sometimes be troublesome to get working on a real DOS system.
That wasn't meant to be a stab at you and I'm not quite sure how you took it that way or felt it was directed at you in particular. In addition you did state using a 486 system so it would also imply you already were a pure DOS gamer or user. I was stating that most of the GOG installers removed the necessary setup files to reconfigure the game and most of the time they only set it for Sound Blaster and for those wanting to try out MT-32 for example wouldn't be possible without the original files. This was a complaint I had on GOG suggesting GOG purchases also include a download option for the original "unmodified" source disks/CDs/DVDs so people could use the programs as originally intended should they choose.
But regarding the 528MB issue I got it down to 548MB in bytes but recognized as 521MB so SQ6 CD GOG version has been modified by me to now work on a CD or a limited 528MB hard drive. I thought y5boxou had a legitimate need to resolve this so I had spent some time the other day working on it. But definitely if you didn't have this issue which was why I was asking what kind of errors you were seeing on the screen on your end I might have been able to do an easier patch for you.
Later it turns out you weren't requiring it so I misunderstood you weren't interested in it for yourself but when you listed those two specific games SQ6 and QFG4 it gave me the impression you had the problems.
I have also later added sound patching options for Pro Audio Spectrum 16, Adlib, General Midi, Sound Blaster AWE32, Microsoft Sound System, and the Roland MT-32 which probably would be the best MIDI option.
Currently experimenting with Munt trying to get it work again to see if it works properly with it in DOSBOX. Too lazy to hook up my real Roland MT-32 at the moment.
wrote:95DosBox is the new expert in town, but then his handle kinda suggests he uses DosBox (like GOG). Or is that a Windows95 DOSBox? Me confused 😕
Nope. It was "NOT" meant to imply a Windows 95 DOSBOX nor running DOSBOX inside Windows 95. In fact the username may have been more accurately described and should have been 95BOX or 9XBOX or MEBOX where you could run all 95/98/ME software properly with video and audio drivers = Voodoo5 5000 and top end nVidia GeForce 7 series card emulation with Creative Labs Audigy ZS2 EAX sound emulation. The equivalent of a DOSBOX but for Windows 9X/ME. However if I used the name 95BOX that would also or could be though to mean a Windows 95 computer.
Badmojo, 😀 I've explained the origin of the username. Maybe you can also share light on yours too as where badmojo comes from as I can't recall anything related to Mortal Kombat relating to that?
Most modern motherboards and recently testing the Z68/Z77 cannot detect the PCI sound or video cards in a clean install of Windows 98SE. Because of this a 95BOX or 9XBOX or MEBOX or whatever you want to call it will be necessary to take care of legacy gaming on modern computers. PCI slots, AGP slots, and ISA slots have pretty much been killed of on Z270 and possibly Z370 and up. There are a few odd ball Z170 and up that still have PCI slots but since Z68 already stopped detecting PCI sound and video cards it is the end of the road for 9X/ME gaming. You can still install the operating system but no one in the their right mind is going to install 9X/ME to do nothing but word processing. Internet would probably be very hard to do with most websites not working properly even on the last version of browsers that can still work on 9X/ME. I forgot to mention USB cards PCI and PCIe based also do not detect in Windows 98SE on the Z68/Z77 and most likely Z87/Z97/Z170/Z270 are dead ends going forward.
If there is some resident expert. Well you could say it would be at Mortal Kombat ][. But as far as the PC side of things it's just hardware, software, and depending on how often you are using it or not you'll eventually forget a few things here and there without consistent usage. I used to remember all the IRQ channels during the DOS days and which devices they belonged to as well as their addresses. Most of this I'd need a refresher but for someone today still tweaking on one of these older systems constantly that information would be fresh on their minds. So who or what is considered "expert" information is trivial. One expert today could be a late bloomer born 20 years ago tweaking with a legacy computer now say for example PCL with a nice youtube site and great smooth website!
But since I do retain most of my knowledge from back then and still have most of the hardware and software I could if needed refresh myself. Some you can say I was fortunate to be there at the right time. But most people here aren't going to be experts in all fields all the the time and I still consider myself in that flux. I'm not a hard core programmer although I've hacked and cracked a few DOS programs myself back in the day but people that were part of INC, TDT, and a number of other groups are the seriously hardcore people I envy and if I knew any of these people I would have loved to have absorbed all the knowledge they possessed if they were willing to show me. Even I've forgotten a few things over the many decades but with a helpful individual like you or clueless1 I'm back on board with the relevant. My goal at least I would think most people on here is trying to preserve that information from what I call the "golden age of computers". There's still plenty at least for myself that I don't know since computers didn't consume my entire life after the 486 era too much so I really avoided or didn't need to deal with the Socket 775 era of technology too much since the loss of ISA slots and DOS compatibility really turned me off for a good chunk of time so there will be plenty of 9X/ME era games that I haven't played or know anything about but with more time to experiment although in some ways less it's nice to revisit and explore that missing chunk of gaming. I had beta tested a lot of early 95 software for Sega back in the day and it gave me nightmares. Constant BSOD crashing made me realize then how awful 95 was. The driver integration was a nightmare if you could get it going.
In comparison to today I'd recommend XP as the oldest Windows OS to really truly use on a modern computer. It's easier to get installed with some patching but also most hardware will still work up to Z270 and probably Z370 and beyond without issue. DOS also works but the problem is with the lack of PCI slots going forward even fake SB emulation using a PCI sound card is gone and it didn't even work when I tried on a Z68/Z77. So we are left with emulating a Sound Blaster via PC internal Speaker or using the HDMI audio out on the Intel HD Graphics, AMD, or nVidia graphics cards. The other solution is plain old USB Creative Labs sound cards that at least can support XP/7/10 making them great alternatives for multiOS boot setup. But for those not aware Z170 starting the removal of Intel USB 2.0 eHCI ports which leads to DOS incompatibility issues if only Intel USB 3.0 xHCI ports are only available so that leads to another issue of getting these USB sound cards to interface under DOS and then adapt them for DOS SB emulation. I probably should add that Z370 and later will probably be the adoption of killing of PS/2 ports. At the moment you still need at least one for the mouse or you will be stranded in 98SE since USB ports don't work on it. Every time I've connected a USB mouse the cursor can't be controlled. I'm not sure if there is a way to fix this problem.
But again if you do want to refer to me as a "resident expert" of anything.
I will gladly accept that title if it's in connection to Mortal Kombat ][. 😊
And if there were such an arcade machine around and you wanted me to demonstrate a game with you I would most certainly enjoy it. 😀
wrote:Surely one can make an ISO from files, and if you're worried about the copy protection test it with DOSBox or a CD emulator to get it right before writing an actual CD.
SQ6 isn't copy protected at least the GOG SQ6CD version they ripped from the Space Quest Collection. That's why it was somewhat confusing what problem clueless1 was bringing up at first so I went to troubleshoot. But as far as I could tell as long it runs in DOSBOX using DOS commands not some launcher it should in theory work just the same in Pure DOS. Most of these games were not copy protected but manual protected. But I didn't play the SQ6 long enough aside from the intro to get to a point where they may reference looking up something in the manual. But that game should not be copy protected. They stopped that stuff after Space Quest 3. SQ4 required the manual for certain parts of the game to be completed FWICR.
Well, I should have omitted the word 'the' - I was referring to copy protection in general, not in SQ6. Are you able to write a real or virtual CD that it will run off? If you have the files from SQ Collection, and they're still in the original directory structure, it should be easy.
wrote:Well, I should have omitted the word 'the' - I was referring to copy protection in general, not in SQ6. Are you able to write a real or virtual CD that it will run off? If you have the files from SQ Collection, and they're still in the original directory structure, it should be easy.
SQ6 GOG CD is just a straight up install to hard drive. These files are not copy protected so you could either copy them to any DOS computer that could fit the entire folder or directory as it was called before Windows. I think the original expanded size was still below 650MB or at least could be reduced to fit an actual CD deleting a few GOG files I listed previously.
The problem clueless1 had brought up was the 528MB hard drive limit on earlier 486 systems. I was able to compress the game down from the original SQ6 CD GOG version to below that threshold which could be burned to a CD if they wanted to use a CD-rom DOS driver to read the disc or just run it straight off the hard drive.
Most GOG releases of DOS games have been altered or have removed the original support for configuration using other sound cards aside from Sound Blaster. But after messing with it and tweaking it I added all the Sound card device output options in my patching so anyone with a Roland MT-32 or even an Pro Audio Spectrum 16 could try it out. At the moment I don't have a PAS16 to test but the game should run under true DOS since I patched it. The MT-32 I have to do some testing later with MUNT and DOSBOX as I don't have the room to set up the real Roland MT-32 in my workspace. But from other users they have stated that Munt has come a long way in emulation and the last time I downloaded it was v1.3 and I just recently tried installing v2.1 and it doesn't even work so either I have to do a clean XP install and try again to see how much improvement v2.1 has achieved. But hooking up the real deal is pretty amazing.
Anyone know how to rip their ROM out of their MT-32. I was curious as one day maybe I'd just rip my MT-32 ROM for preservation. I think I got the last revision. It would be interesting to test that in Munt.
DooM-1 works fine on my Digital Venturis466 (486DX2-66 with onboard video), but Heretic runs quite slow, even in minimised window and Hexen I didn't even try on it)
Once, about 2007 when I just began to use and collect classic computers - tried to run the Dark Forces 1 on a Compaq Contura 400cx - a 486-40. It looked like a torture - so slow on that machine)
wrote:DooM-1 works fine on my Digital Venturis466 (486DX2-66 with onboard video), but Heretic runs quite slow, even in minimised window and Hexen I didn't even try on it)
Once, about 2007 when I just began to use and collect classic computers - tried to run the Dark Forces 1 on a Compaq Contura 400cx - a 486-40. It looked like a torture - so slow on that machine)
P3 500MHz should handle that game smoothly. And with the extra memory you could create a small DOS ramdrive and copy the entire game to it to reduce any stuttering or lag from the older hard drive speeds.
wrote:DooM-1 works fine on my Digital Venturis466 (486DX2-66 with onboard video), but Heretic runs quite slow, even in minimised window and Hexen I didn't even try on it)
Doom uses Mode Y in most (all?) versions, while Heretic uses Mode 13h. Perhaps that's why one is slower than the other. I had the reversed problem; my onboard video has problems with Mode X/Y, so in Doom whenever I entered an area with lots of different light levels things would slow down tremendously. Heretic and Hexen are blazing fast on the same system.
