The recycling center in my area says all electronics cannot be sold or given away by them because there property of the county. I went to the county's site and it says "All items are not available for local sale or reuse" which I interpret as "we are selling this hardware to someone else far away who happens to be the highest bidder". I'm in Illinois where curbside electronics disposal is illegal so basically this makes scavenging impossible for me. I've found one good machine in two years and it wasn't anything super spectacular.

Western Hobbyists problem is that over here the man with the most money is the man who has what he desires. A poor man can put in as much effort as he likes, he will never have the best or most sought after items and half of what would otherwise be accessible to him his locked behind a chained gate due to some environmentalist bullshit saying that everything must be recycled in a specific manor.

The problem is quite simply put: Capitalism.

There are many things about civilization that make me realize human kind is unfit to govern itself and that our race has survived so long mearly by luck.

Richo wrote:

At my work we replace all our computer hardware thats replacable every 4 years, because thats easier and costs less then to maintain and upgrade them were possible (maintance is usually the problem were hardware starts failing and people not being able to work on their computer that day). I can understand the reason but its a waste of recources...

If it's easier and costs less. By definition, that is not a waste of resources.

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote:

Western Hobbyists problem is that over here the man with the most money is the man who has what he desires. A poor man can put in as much effort as he likes, he will never have the best or most sought after items and half of what would otherwise be accessible to him his locked behind a chained gate due to some environmentalist bullshit saying that everything must be recycled in a specific manor.

The problem is quite simply put: Capitalism.

So what's your proposed life solution? How do you define effort? I put in a lot of effort at work to get a standard currency (known as money). Then I use the standard currency to buy stuff I want, at conversion rates I think is reasonable. If I were a multi-millionaire, I would've bought that GoodOldMemories Creative GeForce 256 DDR that I've sought for, for months.

Are you saying that if you want to be into retro hardware, the only effort that counts is scouring for the hardware? Like really... how do you define "effort".

And despite what xplus93 says about my economic beliefs, I'm pretty far from free market capitalist.

dexvx wrote:

If it's easier and costs less. By definition, that is not a waste of resources. […]
Show full quote

Richo wrote:

At my work we replace all our computer hardware thats replacable every 4 years, because thats easier and costs less then to maintain and upgrade them were possible (maintance is usually the problem were hardware starts failing and people not being able to work on their computer that day). I can understand the reason but its a waste of recources...

If it's easier and costs less. By definition, that is not a waste of resources.

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote:

Western Hobbyists problem is that over here the man with the most money is the man who has what he desires. A poor man can put in as much effort as he likes, he will never have the best or most sought after items and half of what would otherwise be accessible to him his locked behind a chained gate due to some environmentalist bullshit saying that everything must be recycled in a specific manor.

The problem is quite simply put: Capitalism.

So what's your proposed life solution? How do you define effort? I put in a lot of effort at work to get a standard currency (known as money). Then I use the standard currency to buy stuff I want, at conversion rates I think is reasonable. If I were a multi-millionaire, I would've bought that GoodOldMemories Creative GeForce 256 DDR that I've sought for, for months.

Are you saying that if you want to be into retro hardware, the only effort that counts is scouring for the hardware? Like really... how do you define "effort".

And despite what xplus93 says about my economic beliefs, I'm pretty far from free market capitalist.

I think he was referring to working parts being thrown out before even a single item starts malfunctioning.
Yes, this saves man-hours, but it also prevents men from getting work. That is, by definition, also a waste of resources.

But anyway, he was probably referring to the wasted good parts which he and others cannot access due to laws that benefit mostly the richer and the established people (who partially are not much more then workslaves themselves).

Before those laws were there, he could simply be creative and get parts cheaply that way. Not having to pay also saves resources. it all depends on how you look at things. Your way is far from a definition.

I don't agree with one thing though. The problem isn't capitalism, the problem is having the wrong people at the wrong positions. Or maybe the problem is simply people.

Tetrium wrote:

But anyway, he was probably referring to the wasted good parts which he and others cannot access due to laws that benefit mostly the richer and the established people (who partially are not much more then workslaves themselves).

Before those laws were there, he could simply be creative and get parts cheaply that way. Not having to pay also saves resources. it all depends on how you look at things. Your way is far from a definition.

I don't agree with one thing though. The problem isn't capitalism, the problem is having the wrong people at the wrong positions. Or maybe the problem is simply people.

It should be illegal do dump electronic waste in landfills. They have too many potentially toxic components.

In my state, people bring their electronics to a recycler. The recycler is responsible for destroying data (e.g. the hardrive will get a big hole drilled into it). But other than that, anyone is free to walk up to a recycling center and try to haggle items.

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote:

Western Hobbyists problem is that over here the man with the most money is the man who has what he desires. A poor man can put in as much effort as he likes, he will never have the best or most sought after items and half of what would otherwise be accessible to him his locked behind a chained gate due to some environmentalist bullshit saying that everything must be recycled in a specific manor.

The problem is quite simply put: Capitalism.

Hot tip - finish school, work some shitty jobs for a few years, make some mistakes but keep learning how to be a grown up, get some perspective, get better jobs, realise that the world isn't against you - or for you - it's just a grindingly long game that you have to play to get what you want.

In the mean time spare us your tanties, they're pointless and makes people disregard your on-topic opinions, which actually seem really good.

dexvx wrote:

Richo wrote:

At my work we replace all our computer hardware thats replacable every 4 years, because thats easier and costs less then to maintain and upgrade them were possible (maintance is usually the problem were hardware starts failing and people not being able to work on their computer that day). I can understand the reason but its a waste of recources...

If it's easier and costs less. By definition, that is not a waste of resources.

I disagree, if something is working and is being replaced to save man hours its a waste of recources and the environment, even if it gets 100% recycled it still leaves a huge carbon footprint inbetween for what? to save time not even money it costs money to replace something before it breaks or turns obsolete.

Tetrium wrote:

But anyway, he was probably referring to the wasted good parts which he and others cannot access due to laws that benefit mostly the richer and the established people (who partially are not much more then workslaves themselves).

Before those laws were there, he could simply be creative and get parts cheaply that way. Not having to pay also saves resources. it all depends on how you look at things. Your way is far from a definition.

I don't agree with one thing though. The problem isn't capitalism, the problem is having the wrong people at the wrong positions. Or maybe the problem is simply people.

this isn't about capitalism, this is about plain old shitty bureaucracy and people to lazy to care about something that isn't theirs (oh its my boss properity, so he pays... lets WASTE his money, he has plenty anyway). this is a increasing trend though which puts alot of financial strain on companies because of alot of employees not caring (its their job to make money for their boss and in return they recieve a steady income). for the record you are wrong on the part of the richer and established people 😉

Im far from rich, drive a 88 escort, dont even own a blueray player for or even cable and my home has not been renovated since the late 70s.

Yet I never had problems with affording pc parts. Ok mybe once or twice. The problem is when you get picky and have to have a certain part right now. There are plenty of cheap parts for sale online right now, just buy things when you find them in your price range and dont go looking for a certain part.

Complaining about prices on old hardware is like a lower income person complaining about not being able to aford a ferrari. They can probably still aford a car, just not a ferrari.

As for recycling and lossing the parts. I do not like this as much as the next, but 90% are junk OEM pos and its better to keep them out of the land fills.

Edit:
As for ritch or big companies buying up stuff and jacking up the prices. Capitalism does not work quite that way. People have to pay for the parts first. Stand up to rich/big companies doing this and the prices will come down.
Its supply and demand, if there is no or little demand the price will come down until the demand appears, if the demand stays the say and the supply lowers the prices will go up. Simple fix, dont over pay and vote with your wallet.

Richo wrote:

dexvx wrote:

Richo wrote:

At my work we replace all our computer hardware thats replacable every 4 years, because thats easier and costs less then to maintain and upgrade them were possible (maintance is usually the problem were hardware starts failing and people not being able to work on their computer that day). I can understand the reason but its a waste of recources...

If it's easier and costs less. By definition, that is not a waste of resources.

I disagree, if something is working and is being replaced to save man hours its a waste of recources and the environment, even if it gets 100% recycled it still leaves a huge carbon footprint inbetween for what? to save time not even money it costs money to replace something before it breaks or turns obsolete.

You literally said

Richo wrote:

because thats easier and costs less then to maintain

Are you now changing your argument to say it saves time but costs more? I work as a software dev. Lost productivity, going by average salary here, is about $500/day. Additionally, loss in average revenue (company annual revenue/total employees), is about $1300/day. Obviously some people contribute more than others, but this is just an average. So if the company wants to save money by still using fixer-upper 6-10 year old laptops and that laptop is out for just 1 day due to repairs, company literally lost $1000-2000 in productivity and opportunity costs. Seems better to play it safe and spend $1K every 4 years, no?

dexvx wrote:

Are you now changing your argument to say it saves time but costs more? I work as a software dev. Lost productivity, going by average salary here, is about $500/day. Additionally, loss in average revenue (company annual revenue/total employees), is about $1300/day. Obviously some people contribute more than others, but this is just an average. So if the company wants to save money by still using fixer-upper 6-10 year old laptops and that laptop is out for just 1 day due to repairs, company literally lost $1000-2000 in productivity and opportunity costs. Seems better to play it safe and spend $1K every 4 years, no?

I don't say I agree with them, I understand why they do it. All I say its a waste of recources for stuff that could last another 6-10 years, hell most people at the office department at my work don't go beyond outlook, word or excel when being productive and the 1 specialized program which is required for their job. this kind of operation doesn't even require a single core let alone a dual core which we are currently operating with. do you know the main reason they replace those systems, because after 4 years of continues operation dust accumulated in those computers to such a degree that it can become a fire hazard or they fail due overheating (this was the answer I got from IT department when discussing it with them), my jaw dropped....
All you are talking about is the economical standpoint, I prefer to focus on the environment.

Richo wrote:

dexvx wrote:

Are you now changing your argument to say it saves time but costs more? I work as a software dev. Lost productivity, going by average salary here, is about $500/day. Additionally, loss in average revenue (company annual revenue/total employees), is about $1300/day. Obviously some people contribute more than others, but this is just an average. So if the company wants to save money by still using fixer-upper 6-10 year old laptops and that laptop is out for just 1 day due to repairs, company literally lost $1000-2000 in productivity and opportunity costs. Seems better to play it safe and spend $1K every 4 years, no?

I don't say I agree with them, I understand why they do it. All I say its a waste of recources for stuff that could last another 6-10 years, hell most people at the office department at my work don't go beyond outlook, word or excel when being productive and the 1 specialized program which is required for their job. this kind of operation doesn't even require a single core let alone a dual core which we are currently operating with. do you know the main reason they replace those systems, because after 4 years of continues operation dust accumulated in those computers to such a degree that it can become a fire hazard or they fail due overheating (this was the answer I got from IT department when discussing it with them), my jaw dropped....
All you are talking about is the economical standpoint, I prefer to focus on the environment.

What is being pointed out is the day it takes to issue a replacement computer off schedule. That means your employee basically get a paid day off since they can't do anything without their computer. That can cost the company as much money as just buying new computers and scheduling a cutover during off hours. Your employee walks in one day to a new computer and gets to work immediately. Imagine just one employee saying "I can't finalize that account because my computer is down" and you'll understand the management nightmare.

It's pretty pointless to focus on that aspect of computer lifecycles though. Since the stuff most of us focus on is high end consumer parts. That stuff goes to the landfill/recyclers or craigslist/ebay. So the idea is to make sure the stuff is worth enough that recyclers will take the time to sell it, but not too much that it becomes an exclusive hobby. Yes, if every single person agreed not to pay too much then the prices would be fine. But when you've got players with deep pockets then they can use that money to move the market wherever they want. Making it a high dollar exclusive hobby will always be beneficial to whoever can stay in the game. So, in all honesty, it's an uphill battle against basic economic principles, or as others have put it. Capitalism in general.

Richo wrote:

the main reason they replace those systems, because after 4 years of continues operation dust accumulated in those computers to such a degree that it can become a fire hazard or they fail due overheating (this was the answer I got from IT department when discussing it with them), my jaw dropped....
All you are talking about is the economical standpoint, I prefer to focus on the environment.

Sounds like something I experienced. Most computers I arranged for pickup on local used stuff sites or hard rubbish removals were suffering from overheating and as a result either shut down or worked very slow. Some cleaning and thermal grease reapply brought them back to life - 15 minutes spent on my end.

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote:

The recycling center in my area says all electronics cannot be sold or given away by them because there property of the county. […]
Show full quote

The recycling center in my area says all electronics cannot be sold or given away by them because there property of the county. I went to the county's site and it says "All items are not available for local sale or reuse" which I interpret as "we are selling this hardware to someone else far away who happens to be the highest bidder". I'm in Illinois where curbside electronics disposal is illegal so basically this makes scavenging impossible for me. I've found one good machine in two years and it wasn't anything super spectacular.

Western Hobbyists problem is that over here the man with the most money is the man who has what he desires. A poor man can put in as much effort as he likes, he will never have the best or most sought after items and half of what would otherwise be accessible to him his locked behind a chained gate due to some environmentalist bullshit saying that everything must be recycled in a specific manor.

The problem is quite simply put: Capitalism.

There are many things about civilization that make me realize human kind is unfit to govern itself and that our race has survived so long mearly by luck.

I agree but some of us here have seen first hand that socialism doesn't work either and both systems end their lives with majority of their populations as has nots in deep poverty while a rich elite owns the lions share of the nation's wealth.

nforce4max wrote:

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote:

The recycling center in my area says all electronics cannot be sold or given away by them because there property of the county. […]
Show full quote

The recycling center in my area says all electronics cannot be sold or given away by them because there property of the county. I went to the county's site and it says "All items are not available for local sale or reuse" which I interpret as "we are selling this hardware to someone else far away who happens to be the highest bidder". I'm in Illinois where curbside electronics disposal is illegal so basically this makes scavenging impossible for me. I've found one good machine in two years and it wasn't anything super spectacular.

Western Hobbyists problem is that over here the man with the most money is the man who has what he desires. A poor man can put in as much effort as he likes, he will never have the best or most sought after items and half of what would otherwise be accessible to him his locked behind a chained gate due to some environmentalist bullshit saying that everything must be recycled in a specific manor.

The problem is quite simply put: Capitalism.

There are many things about civilization that make me realize human kind is unfit to govern itself and that our race has survived so long mearly by luck.

I agree but some of us here have seen first hand that socialism doesn't work either and both systems end their lives with majority of their populations as has nots in deep poverty while a rich elite owns the lions share of the nation's wealth.

Not to derail too much, but yeah. Give the capability to absolutely rule to a small minority and you will always see failure. That's the problem right now, the small minority is the combination of recyclers and people who already own rare items. Both of which are in reality a small minority, but have complete control over the marketplace. What people don;t understand about the free market is that whoever has the good is the person who dictates the price. There's no such thing as "what people are willing to pay" when you can sell to the entire world as well as shape your market. Imagine if I had a widget that people wanted. It doesn't matter how many people, all that matters is that some of the people have significantly more money than the rest. If i could shape the market to cater to those few people and then instigate competition between them I could ask whatever I wanted. That's how capitalism works in the real world. Don't even get me started on on how communism works in the real world (It's an equally sized mess). So, what ends up happening is that the few people who own an item, either collectors or recyclers, end up controlling the market and are able to dictate prices. The funniest thing is that we are talking about basic capitalism and economic theory which has progressed slower than the technology it controls. (Fun thought for the day, does economy drive technology, or is it the other way around?)

Also, if anybody is wondering, my personal collection will either be buried with me or put in a museum. If I end up having kids and they make one penny then they will never see the outside of a courtroom.

xplus93 wrote:

Also, if anybody is wondering, my personal collection will either be buried with me or put in a museum. If I end up having kids and they make one penny then they will never see the outside of a courtroom.

By selling your collection? Or is your objective to raise them Fregan? 😀

gdjacobs wrote:

xplus93 wrote:

Also, if anybody is wondering, my personal collection will either be buried with me or put in a museum. If I end up having kids and they make one penny then they will never see the outside of a courtroom.

By selling your collection? Or is your objective to raise them Fregan? 😀

Yeah, if they sell it off. Because I don't want it to be a money thing. I wouldn't go as far as fregan though.

I have no problem with people making vast sums of money and spending it how they like. Key is that they worked for it. Main problem today is that much of the money is being handed down to kids who have no concept of how difficult it was to accumulate said wealth (see Trump). Estate tax should be at least 80% when over a one time deductible (US is currently $6M per parent).

Also, I don't think there is a computer museum in US, is there?

dexvx wrote:

I have no problem with people making vast sums of money and spending it how they like. Key is that they worked for it. Main problem today is that much of the money is being handed down to kids who have no concept of how difficult it was to accumulate said wealth (see Trump). Estate tax should be at least 80% when over a one time deductible (US is currently $6M per parent).

Also, I don't think there is a computer museum in US, is there?

How about the Computer History Museum located in Silicon Valley?
You know, the place where they invented the modern computer.

http://www.computerhistory.org/

xplus93 wrote:

be buried with me

Realistically speaking it will be burned with you.

Just gonna say something, enjoy what you got instead of whining about prices. 😀