Comparing one of the worst games with a true classic is not a good point to start with.

Also, source code is usually released when there are no expectancies of new sales.

but they were made by the same developer

Zup's last point still stands

twiz11 wrote:

but they were made by the same developer

Ion Storm Dallas != Ion Storm Austin

Dominus's last point still stands, heh jk yea I was wondering why one made the greatest game, the other the worst-est game.

Deus Ex has public headers and the entire UnrealScript classes are all right there and easily modified.

You don't really need any more sourcecode than that.

It's a little disappointing, but it's to be expected. Common gamers don't care about things like source, preservation, EULAs, DRM, etc. They are more focused on driving their cars than tinkering with/ maintaining them.

DracoNihil wrote:

Deus Ex has public headers and the entire UnrealScript classes are all right there and easily modified.

You don't really need any more sourcecode than that.

Depending on your needs. If you want to port an old game to more modern systems, fix bugs etc. you need all source.

I've ran Deus Ex on Windows 10 Creators Update and absolutely everything worked.

DracoNihil wrote:

I've ran Deus Ex on Windows 10 Creators Update and absolutely everything worked.

I think you are missing the point. He was just giving an example of what you can do if you had the source. What DeusEx offers by having UnrealScript available is modding. That is different from C++/C code of the game (and engine) itself. That is what id offered for Doom, Quake, Quake2, Quake3, etc.

Even with just public headers I've seen people do crazy things to Deus Ex without even having the full Unreal Engine 1 source specific to DX1.

So I don't think I am missing a point at all...

I've seen more done with the public headers for UE1 games than anyone has done for Monolith's earlier Lithtech games (which had headers, gamecode source AND dedicated server source, and sometimes these are misled by "hey its open source game now make ports plz" despite not having CLIENT source) and that's considering Monolith released them almost as soon as the games launched...

You can even subclass the GameEngine class in Unreal Engine 1 with the use of the public headers and fix bugs that way.

Using just public headers is like only knowing the names of the settlements on a map, where they are perhaps, the resources they possibly hold, but not the roads between, any possible new routes that can be made/taken, or the tourment the resources took to get there...

And then there's the big 'badlands' on the other side of the swamp (client application for the engine) which is completly unknown yet dictates what supplies and resources, and where they are sent to in some unknown (to you) order...

Yes you can see what resources arrive at what settlement and interact/change/exhange for other resources of your choosing, and some will be 'common' knowledge (given by the headers/documentation)...

but ultimately the route it took to get there is unknown, how it changed along the way, and since it came from the badlands, for all intents and purposes, you have no idea where it came from...

if you had knowledge of the roads and the badlands however o.0 (source!).

twiz11 wrote:

its weird how when id software releases their source code to games, it didn't have a bigger sales impact as people were buying their games a second time?

What has the source code to do with buying a game a second time?
If anything, download platforms are a reason to buy a game a second time since you don't have to bother with your old media, and the game usually runs out of the box on up to date platforms.
It is the desire to play the game which leads to a purchase, no matter what engine or if the source code is available. Source code is a gift to the fan community to keep the game alive for a longer time.

On the other hand, who could prove that the game didn't sell to people who couldn't even play it without a 3rd-party source port? In the case of "Doom", this includes even Windows to a degree, since the official port is in a really bad shape and avoided by the majority of players for that reason. So releasing the source could help sales slightly, but that would be hard to prove, I guess.

Marek wrote:

Source code is a gift to the fan community to keep the game alive for a longer time.

I believe for Carmack it was a way help keep the industry moving forward by baselining the technology leading up to the latest generation engines.

Are we moving forward or backwards? Looking at Unity and the games that came out of it, its worse than the id tech 1 engine. If what Carmack said was true, then he would have open sourced Oculus Rift

twiz11 wrote:

Are we moving forward or backwards? Looking at Unity and the games that came out of it, its worse than the id tech 1 engine. If what Carmack said was true, then he would have open sourced Oculus Rift

Not always entirely his call. Id was supportive, Zenimax and Occulus not so much.

hmm though i imagine blood is getting sales because of bloodGDX...