I guess I'm just a simple guy who enjoys most films. I loved it, no complaints, I was entertained and that's all that matters. The Leia scene in space was hard to believe, but I just used my imagination and applied it to "The Force". 😁

You are all entitled to your opinion but better no one starts any misogynistic crap or else...

sf78 wrote:

Malik wrote:

I think Rogue One had better story. (Or maybe because Harrison Ford was there.)

I don't think Ford was in RO, I think you mean Force Awakens?

Yes, you are correct. I stand corrected. It was The Force Awakens.

I still wish they would have done the "Heir to the Empire" story instead.

gdjacobs wrote:

I still wish they would have done the "Heir to the Empire" story instead.

Same here. Zahn did a fantastic job of writing a sequel trilogy, aside from the whole Ysalamari thing that was greatly unnecessary and the most glaring evidence (among many others in his trilogy) that he did not quite understand the concept of the Force. Regardless, my appreciation of the books has increased tenfold after The Last Jedi. I am reading them back to back now, actually.

Anyway, I saw TLJ on Wednesday and I have to say it was a pretty bad movie in my opinion. It ranks slightly above The Phantom Menace and on par with Attack of the Clones. It's really that bad.

Here's a list of the bad:

- Poorly executed humour / comic relief: Comes from the wrong characters, out of place, contributes nothing to characters or story, lacks charm
- Too many B-plots with character arcs that offer no development, even for Rey
- Plot holes galore
- Most anticlimactic villain confrontations (Snoke and Phasma) ever
- Terrible pacing
- Prequels quality CGI in some scenes
- Yoda cameo

Ultimately, it felt like a season of Rebels stitched into a movie. It was Disney through and through.

I may skip Ep IX completely. This movie kind of ruined Star Wars for me more than Phantom Menace did.

I didn't notice the parallels to current social climate until the forced Poe vs Holdo dynamic and bad Luke character scenes. Why did Poe have to be this blatantly subordinate evil fly boy and she the noble sacrifice? With how few forces they were down to, the survivalist skill of the remaining I think would have naturally had better strategy and cooperation. Luke tried to turn his father, so why not his nephew? Why give it all up and to heck with the Jedi? He went straight back to his tatooine life! Why did he have no plans and abandon his family he didn't get to know while growing up? Why did he repeat what Obi Wan did but then also deny Rey? All so Yoda can show up in the film and be a deus ex machina? What?

gerwin wrote:

the film is as feminist as can be

A film is supposed to appeal to mass market. A lot of nerds have grown up and have daughters and sons. Until now, Leia was really the only interesting female in the franchise.

gerwin wrote:

add even more new age ideas in there, then did not dare to do so, and were left with this half-progressive, half-vintage thing.

Black/white is an old concept, everything should be grey (our legend Luke is even written out of character to be this way)
Throw away the old institutions (screw jedi/sith, do your own thing, what did they know?)
Powerful men (Snoke, Hux, Kylo, old dude) vs fleeing women (Leia, Holdo, Rose, Rey)
Denying women dominance/power (Poe vs Holdo, Luke vs Rey, Finn vs Phasma, DJ vs Rose)

And Star Trek was a show where Kirk got too friendly with the commies.

In general, glad you see the parallels in the movie in a somewhat similar way. I agree there is indeed more then just the cliche I picked out, but that was the only one that was obvious enough that I consider it proven. The other ones you wrote down have good merit too, have to consider them... Did you miss "The force is for orphans/who needs parents anyways" (Rey, Little slave boy at stables)? 🤣

Auzner wrote:

A film is supposed to appeal to mass market. A lot of nerds have grown up and have daughters and sons. Until now, Leia was really the only interesting female in the franchise.

Auzner wrote:

Powerful men (Snoke, Hux, Kylo, old dude) vs fleeing women (Leia, Holdo, Rose, Rey)

But wasn't it more like the men were either: defeatist (Luke), psycho (Kylo), clueless + deserter (Finn), loose canon (Poe), criminal + traitor (Del Toro) and just silly (Hux). The women put them straight, like without any doubts of themselves.
Ironically pretty much everything from the Rebels (or is that the republic) gets killed or destroyed at the end anyways. Like; There is the message that the women saved the day, then confusingly they actually did not!?

There are obviously different opinions on this movie, but I would not be surprised if younger boys have a harder time identifying with the characters then would be expected of Star Wars because of the male flaws I listed. And possibly the same goes for girls because the female characters are too simplistic.

Today it sometimes looks like a forced a bounce in the other direction. For the countless cleavage bimbo characters in all of the 1980's-present films, in Ep 8 the men were still alright. It's not a full table turn. Poe is capable enough to work through his choices. Finn can be counted on to do the right thing. Hux is the same as the British accents in the original trilogy. Del Toro is type-casted nowadays. Luke had better be in episode 9 to make up for the poor character in 8.

I've been watching a lot of ADG this weekend. The 90s games that were getting into live action videos had a lot of weak-charactered, pointless, eye-candy women. It's what was expected at the time with a low budget budding industry taking notes from the films of the day. People thought Star Trek Voyager was bad? I think it set a good example of how today's societal changes could be approached in mass media.

But I digress. I saw the parts that make the film a product of its time and I don't think they're too blatant. I enjoyed 7 and Rogue One. 8 had good character development for everyone but Luke, yet still left Rey and Kylo ambiguous! I don't think the film stands well on its own and may depend on 7 and 9 for it to work. Snoke never really mattered, so why do we care he died? Luke didn't do much. The rebels relocated. Protagonist and antagonist are still ambiguous but now more powerful. You could skip 8 and just have it as extra scrolling text in 9.

gerwin wrote:

But wasn't it more like the men were either: defeatist (Luke), psycho (Kylo), clueless + deserter (Finn), loose canon (Poe), criminal + traitor (Del Toro) and just silly (Hux).

You forgot dead (Ackbar), although he's Calamari so definitely not #MAGA.

The sequel trilogy was ruined for me in TFA when they destroyed the New Republic in one ridiculous scene with a ridiculous weapon that made no sense "It's like the Death Star but more powerful!!1one1!"

This direction destroyed any hope for the new films for me. I was really looking forward to seeing two factions on at least somewhat equal-footing going at it in some crazy battles both in space and planetary ... you know... Star WARS? Instead we get a rehashed crappier version of A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back with "the underdog outnumbered, gotta-flee rebels vs the empir--First Order". They could've even reversed it and had the First Order be a smaller guerilla faction vs the larger New Republic with the whatever dark side user being their "Luke" and balancing things out. A real contrast.

infiniteclouds wrote:

The sequel trilogy was ruined for me in TFA when they destroyed the New Republic in one ridiculous scene with a ridiculous weapon that made no sense "It's like the Death Star but more powerful!!1one1!"

This direction destroyed any hope for the new films for me. I was really looking forward to seeing two factions on at least somewhat equal-footing going at it in some crazy battles both in space and planetary ... you know... Star WARS? Instead we get a rehashed crappier version of A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back with "the underdog outnumbered, gotta-flee rebels vs the empir--First Order". They could've even reversed it and had the First Order be a smaller guerilla faction vs the larger New Republic with the whatever dark side user being their "Luke" and balancing things out. A real contrast.

This is Disney. They went with the safest and most family friendly thing they could do: rehash the original trilogy and make it more relatable to millenials. Result? A movie worse than The Phantom Menace for all I'm concerned.

Saw this on the weekend with my wife and we both enjoyed it, but it was pretty forgettable. Rehashed, by the numbers - I'm ready for something new from the Star Wars franchise going forward. But in saying all that it was very easy on the eyes and brain-cells and it's generally all I have the energy for these days 😵. I liked the feminist bent - I grow weary of men saving the world.

My only actual complaint was that apparently you can blow up a Star Destroyer by simply aiming a much smaller ship at it and hitting the hyperspace button - why aren't they doing that every single time?? Just round up some depressed rebels to go kamikaze and bob's your uncle.

badmojo wrote:

Saw this on the weekend with my wife and we both enjoyed it, but it was pretty forgettable. Rehashed, by the numbers - I'm ready for something new from the Star Wars franchise going forward. But in saying all that it was very easy on the eyes and brain-cells and it's generally all I have the energy for these days 😵. I liked the feminist bent - I grow weary of men saving the world.

My only actual complaint was that apparently you can blow up a Star Destroyer by simply aiming a much smaller ship at it and hitting the hyperspace button - why aren't they doing that every single time?? Just round up some depressed rebels to go kamikaze and bob's your uncle.

Pretty much how I felt about it. BTW, why not aim the ship at the destroyer, escape in a pod, then remotely hit the hyperspace button? 😉

Pretty much why this isn't used in ship wars on sea. Seems to be a last resort kind of thing which you don't want to do with your costly ship. Especially as it seems to depend on ship size. The already big resistance ship did NOT destroy the much bigger Destroyer. Sure it gave a lot of damage and casualties but apparently didn't kill everyone and afzer a short while they were ready to launch an attack on the base.

clueless1 wrote:

BTW, why not aim the ship at the destroyer, escape in a pod, then remotely hit the hyperspace button? 😉

Now you're talking, or better yet why not strap a hyperdrive to a large space rock, add a couple of thrusters + remote control mechanism, and send that bad boy into battle.

BOOM 😈

badmojo wrote:

clueless1 wrote:

BTW, why not aim the ship at the destroyer, escape in a pod, then remotely hit the hyperspace button? 😉

Now you're talking, or better yet why not strap a hyperdrive to a large space rock, add a couple of thrusters + remote control mechanism, and send that bad boy into battle.

BOOM 😈

Stop giving them ideas for Death Star IV in Episode IX.

badmojo wrote:

My only actual complaint was that apparently you can blow up a Star Destroyer by simply aiming a much smaller ship at it and hitting the hyperspace button - why aren't they doing that every single time?? Just round up some depressed rebels to go kamikaze and bob's your uncle.

Like in Return of the Jedi when the A-wing incapacitates Executor by blowing up the bridge? Unlikely, but back then it was OK.