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Reply 560 of 1005, by TrashPanda

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Joakim wrote on 2022-05-26, 13:26:

I'm seriously worried people here are wearing their IBM model M's out whilst complaining on the prices of them.

Well I hope they wear them out faster then perhaps they can get over that keyboard and get a more practical one that doesnt sound like a freight train.

I love mechanical keyboards just not the model M I always thought eh rubber dome tactile keyboards of that era were nicer to use and didn't wake the dead with their noise.

Reply 561 of 1005, by maxtherabbit

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I honestly don't think most ebay sellers who drive the pricing of retro hardware are "scalpers" as such. Most of them buy equipment in large lots from estate sales and the such and then tag and bag it for profit. It is a totally legitimate business activity IMO. They take hardware that would otherwise end up at a scrap metal plant and get it into hands of enthusiasts, why shouldn't they be compensated for their time?

Reply 562 of 1005, by Gmlb256

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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-26, 13:44:
Joakim wrote on 2022-05-26, 13:26:

I'm seriously worried people here are wearing their IBM model M's out whilst complaining on the prices of them.

Well I hope they wear them out faster then perhaps they can get over that keyboard and get a more practical one that doesnt sound like a freight train.

I love mechanical keyboards just not the model M I always thought eh rubber dome tactile keyboards of that era were nicer to use and didn't wake the dead with their noise.

I don't mind the clicky noises when typing on a IBM Model M keyboard, mine is on a isolated room where it won't annoy other people. However, I'm not crazy to use that keyboard on a modern computer for functionality and aesthetic reasons.

maxtherabbit wrote on 2022-05-26, 14:19:

I honestly don't think most ebay sellers who drive the pricing of retro hardware are "scalpers" as such. Most of them buy equipment in large lots from estate sales and the such and then tag and bag it for profit. It is a totally legitimate business activity IMO. They take hardware that would otherwise end up at a scrap metal plant and get it into hands of enthusiasts, why shouldn't they be compensated for their time?

Apparently people saying that most eBay sellers who are involved in old hardware being "scalpers" are quite in denial about some facts mentined several posts prior. That's not to say that questionable business practices don't exist though.

Last edited by Gmlb256 on 2022-05-26, 14:37. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 563 of 1005, by gerry

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Joakim wrote on 2022-05-26, 13:26:

I'm seriously worried people here are wearing their IBM model M's out whilst complaining on the prices of them.

the trick is to not complain, thus keeping the model M in good condition, then sell it for top dollar, buy a very cheap keyboard to replace it and use that to complain! win-win!

maxtherabbit wrote on 2022-05-26, 14:19:

I honestly don't think most ebay sellers who drive the pricing of retro hardware are "scalpers" as such. Most of them buy equipment in large lots from estate sales and the such and then tag and bag it for profit. It is a totally legitimate business activity IMO. They take hardware that would otherwise end up at a scrap metal plant and get it into hands of enthusiasts, why shouldn't they be compensated for their time?

good point! if buying a big lot then most of it is low value, can't blame them for trying to get something back from the prized items and it doesn't go in the scrap as you say

in any case i never buy the very expensive stuff, it would be nice to have them but actually they are not worth those prices to me

Reply 564 of 1005, by cyclone3d

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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-26, 13:44:
Joakim wrote on 2022-05-26, 13:26:

I'm seriously worried people here are wearing their IBM model M's out whilst complaining on the prices of them.

Well I hope they wear them out faster then perhaps they can get over that keyboard and get a more practical one that doesnt sound like a freight train.

I love mechanical keyboards just not the model M I always thought eh rubber dome tactile keyboards of that era were nicer to use and didn't wake the dead with their noise.

The Model M isn't even a mechanical keyboard in th first place. It is a noisy tactile rubber dome keyboard.

I do have one and like it OK, but it is nothing compared to a real mechanical keyboard

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Reply 565 of 1005, by Gmlb256

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cyclone3d wrote on 2022-05-26, 15:00:
TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-26, 13:44:
Joakim wrote on 2022-05-26, 13:26:

I'm seriously worried people here are wearing their IBM model M's out whilst complaining on the prices of them.

Well I hope they wear them out faster then perhaps they can get over that keyboard and get a more practical one that doesnt sound like a freight train.

I love mechanical keyboards just not the model M I always thought eh rubber dome tactile keyboards of that era were nicer to use and didn't wake the dead with their noise.

The Model M isn't even a mechanical keyboard in th first place. It is a noisy tactile rubber dome keyboard.

I do have one and like it OK, but it is nothing compared to a real mechanical keyboard

False, it uses buckling spring over membrane. However there are some variants that do indeed use rubber dome switches.

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Reply 566 of 1005, by Tetrium

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maxtherabbit wrote on 2022-05-26, 14:19:

I honestly don't think most ebay sellers who drive the pricing of retro hardware are "scalpers" as such.

Is there actually anyone here who does think most ebay sellers who drive up the pricing of retro hardware are scalpers?

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 567 of 1005, by Azarien

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Gmlb256 wrote on 2022-05-26, 15:38:
cyclone3d wrote on 2022-05-26, 15:00:

The Model M isn't even a mechanical keyboard in th first place. It is a noisy tactile rubber dome keyboard.

I do have one and like it OK, but it is nothing compared to a real mechanical keyboard

False, it uses buckling spring over membrane. However there are some variants that do indeed use rubber dome switches.

Wonder why is rubber dome not considered "mechanical". I guess it's because people wanted a word for "not rubber dome keyboard".
But "mechanical" is not really a good word choice. Using rubber instead of metal as a springy material does not make it non-mechanical.

Reply 568 of 1005, by Tetrium

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imi wrote on 2022-05-26, 12:05:

that doesn't mean that those ecenomics 101 aren't bad and we can't complain about it :p

True, even though it is to be expected of something of which a finite supply exists and there's little that can be done about it.
And complaining about it probably won't really help in any way anyway 😋

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 569 of 1005, by Tetrium

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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-26, 12:08:

Some people like to complain about the complaints.
🤣

Calm down before someone gets you reeeeported! 😮

😜

Joakim wrote on 2022-05-26, 13:26:

I'm seriously worried people here are wearing their IBM model M's out whilst complaining on the prices of them.

If it's seriously this quick then it wouldn't be worth its money anyhow.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 570 of 1005, by Gmlb256

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Azarien wrote on 2022-05-26, 16:04:
Gmlb256 wrote on 2022-05-26, 15:38:
cyclone3d wrote on 2022-05-26, 15:00:

The Model M isn't even a mechanical keyboard in th first place. It is a noisy tactile rubber dome keyboard.

I do have one and like it OK, but it is nothing compared to a real mechanical keyboard

False, it uses buckling spring over membrane. However there are some variants that do indeed use rubber dome switches.

Wonder why is rubber dome not considered "mechanical". I guess it's because people wanted a word for "not rubber dome keyboard".
But using rubber instead of metal as a springy material does not make it non-mechanical.

The reason why rubber dome switches aren't considered mechanical is because they lack any (or has few) moving parts underneath for the keys.

Sidenote: Keyboards using a membrane sheet doesn't necessarily has to use rubber dome switches.

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Reply 571 of 1005, by SpectriaForce

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Tetrium wrote on 2022-05-26, 16:03:
maxtherabbit wrote on 2022-05-26, 14:19:

I honestly don't think most ebay sellers who drive the pricing of retro hardware are "scalpers" as such.

Is there actually anyone here who does think most ebay sellers who drive up the pricing of retro hardware are scalpers?

Define scalper.

Is there actually anyone here who does think that some Vogons members and Youtubers market/hype certain old hardware thereby driving up the prices of that hardware?

Reply 573 of 1005, by TheMobRules

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In my view a clear example of a scalper would be those groups of people who set up bots to acquire the entire stock of PS5s seconds after it hit the stores, to sell it for 2x, 3x the MSRP. Not only they don't add any value to the production/distribution chain, they are actually a hindrance as stuff like warranty and manufacturer support can become compromised if buying from these people. I'm not a law expert, but that's definitely not "free market", in fact I don't think there would be many objections if it was made illegal. I know a big part of the problem is the inability of some people to exercise restraint when buying new shiny toys (FOMO as they call it), but I think it's not healthy (even for the manufacturers) for the market to be completely disrupted by a few people with more money than they know what to do with.

In that sense, I don't think that is a problem with the retro market, at least not at that level. What is special about the retro IBM PC compatible market in particular, even when compared to other retro markets (such as consoles) is the wild range of prices for the same type of item. So it is really difficult to determine what the "market value" of an item is (unless we're talking about actual collector stuff, i.e. NIB 3Dfx cards, actual IBM PCs, and so on). Here ignorance of both seller AND buyer plays a big part. This leads to a lot of randomness and confusion, it's not like an NES which everyone and their mother know what it is. When you deal directly with a fellow enthusiast/collector usually price ranges are much more sane, but for many people eBay is the only viable way to acquire this stuff, so they fall victim to the craziness, and as I mentioned on another post the ability to list things indefinitely for free has caused lots of these randomly priced listings to pollute the search results for years.

Reply 574 of 1005, by Shreddoc

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imi wrote on 2022-05-26, 12:05:

that doesn't mean that those ecenomics 101 aren't bad and we can't complain about it :p

Agreed 😀

Provided we all keep in context that they're luxury niche complaints about a luxury niche market, where wealthy comfortable people complain that their period-correct toys are taking up too much of their play money.

Joakim wrote on 2022-05-26, 13:26:

I'm seriously worried people here are wearing their IBM model M's out whilst complaining on the prices of them.

It's ok.

The only time the complaints get to me, is when they include the misconception that 'the retro computing market is undergoing some special phenomenon which other markets do not'.

It isn't.

People's sudden rekindled love for, and "coincidentally", the availabilities and prices of, nostalgic items which were popular 20-50 years in their pasts, is just par for the course. A standard human dynamic.

The fact that a small% of the market is composed of shysters, conmen and over-the-top profiteers, is also par for the course - in every market since markets existed. Sure they suck, but generally speaking it's no cause for Great Internet Outrage*.

* AKA "that other great pandemic of the early 2020's" 😉

Reply 575 of 1005, by TrashPanda

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cyclone3d wrote on 2022-05-26, 15:00:
TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-26, 13:44:
Joakim wrote on 2022-05-26, 13:26:

I'm seriously worried people here are wearing their IBM model M's out whilst complaining on the prices of them.

Well I hope they wear them out faster then perhaps they can get over that keyboard and get a more practical one that doesnt sound like a freight train.

I love mechanical keyboards just not the model M I always thought eh rubber dome tactile keyboards of that era were nicer to use and didn't wake the dead with their noise.

The Model M isn't even a mechanical keyboard in th first place. It is a noisy tactile rubber dome keyboard.

I do have one and like it OK, but it is nothing compared to a real mechanical keyboard

While I dont want to argue the point .. its far more mechanical than your average rubber dome keyboard or even the membrane ones, so while it doesnt strictly use mechanical switches like modern keyboards its still using a physical mechanical system within the key itself. (Buckling Spring variant's are indeed a mechanical switch system)

That's good enough to throw it in the mechanical keyboard junk heap, honestly the whole mechanical keyboard thing has gotten way out of control.

I have one too, it sits in its box in the storage shed simply because the just as old NEC rubber dome keyboard I have is superior to it just from useability and comfort.

Reply 576 of 1005, by Tetrium

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SpectriaForce wrote on 2022-05-26, 19:38:
Tetrium wrote on 2022-05-26, 16:03:
maxtherabbit wrote on 2022-05-26, 14:19:

I honestly don't think most ebay sellers who drive the pricing of retro hardware are "scalpers" as such.

Is there actually anyone here who does think most ebay sellers who drive up the pricing of retro hardware are scalpers?

Define scalper.

I think this definition is really close 🙂

TheMobRules wrote on 2022-05-26, 21:38:

In my view a clear example of a scalper would be those groups of people who set up bots to acquire the entire stock of PS5s seconds after it hit the stores, to sell it for 2x, 3x the MSRP. Not only they don't add any value to the production/distribution chain, they are actually a hindrance as stuff like warranty and manufacturer support can become compromised if buying from these people. I'm not a law expert, but that's definitely not "free market", in fact I don't think there would be many objections if it was made illegal. I know a big part of the problem is the inability of some people to exercise restraint when buying new shiny toys (FOMO as they call it), but I think it's not healthy (even for the manufacturers) for the market to be completely disrupted by a few people with more money than they know what to do with.

This is basically how I see it.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 577 of 1005, by canthearu

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Joakim wrote on 2022-05-26, 13:26:

I'm seriously worried people here are wearing their IBM model M's out whilst complaining on the prices of them.

It is actually a good idea to use a terrible membrane keyboard if you are writing complaints on the internet.

You can't feed the complaint anger properly if you aren't typing on a keyboard that isn't doing it's best to make you angrier!

Reply 578 of 1005, by Joakim

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I actually prefer a good rubber, but here are terrible ones.

Regarding bots, I put the blame on auction sites not to prevent it. It is probably very hard to get rid of the buy-cheap-sell-expensive-people except to stop buying from them.

Had me thinking of apple prices. https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/03405535-b81a-4e … f7-ad086366f235

Reply 579 of 1005, by feipoa

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Here's an item I had been watching.

New, open box Voodoo2-1000 w/12MB. Sold for $256 USD + $15 shipping. I thought it would sell for more.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3dfx-3Dfx-Voodoo-2-1 … &orig_cvip=true

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