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Miss America "will no longer judge competitors on physical appearance" (seriously)

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Reply 20 of 33, by Azarien

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lvader wrote:

Just because you remove the swimwear part doesn’t mean they are not judged on physical appearance.

There is a huge difference between "removing the swimwear part" and "not judging on physical appearance".

The former can be interpreted in a conservative way.
The latter would turn a beauty contest into "oh, look how tolerant/eco-friendly/progressive/charitable/politically-correct I am" contest of pride.

Let’s see if some truely unattractive women win.

Or... not a woman at all.

Reply 21 of 33, by Dominus

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Beauty contests were always considered leery, weren't they? And about political correctness, if whatever is the latest victim of pc means something badly treated before is now treated better, I'm all for it...
People protesting pc are often those that want to continue treating people bad or to see people treated bad by others.
The world is changing and I welcome this change!

Edit: I imagine old farts complaining about pc a while back: "First they took the slaves away and now I can't even hit my woman when she mouths off. What next? Next they'll probably not allow me to have sex with her whenever I want to. Damn those social justice warriors!"

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Reply 22 of 33, by Kerr Avon

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Tayyare and Oeuvre, since you both agree with Badmojo's politically correct point of view, can I ask what you'd say to any woman who wanted to participate in a beauty contest even though you personally seem to want them banned simply because you don't like them? I'm not trying to start an argument, but I really don't understand why you think it's wrong or why they belong in the past.

I mean, I have no interest in beauty contests, or flower shows, or synchronised swimming, or ballet, etc, but other people presumably like them (both those taking part, and the viewers), so I don't want to see them banned. And banning a beauty show (or anything else) just because a few people don't like it, seems undemocratic and morally wrong. If millions of people wanted them banned, then that would be worth listening to, but surely if that was the case then those millions of people would have made themselves heard.

Don't get me wrong, I am of course aware that women aren't necessarily safe on the streets due to sex attackers (which is getting worse in the UK all the time, especially since we're cutting the number of coppers, and the judges are reluctant to send criminals to prison dues to overcrowding, though we're not supposed to talk about that - the UK is in a real mess now in so many ways), and we should do everything we can to improve women's safety (though we won't, because money and being seen to be good and effective are far more important to the judicial system than the victims' well-fare are), but we're talking about professionally run beauty contests, not slave-traders setting up fake 'contests' to find victims.

Reply 23 of 33, by Kerr Avon

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Dominus wrote:
Beauty contests were always considered leery, weren't they? And about political correctness, if whatever is the latest victim of […]
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Beauty contests were always considered leery, weren't they? And about political correctness, if whatever is the latest victim of pc means something badly treated before is now treated better, I'm all for it...
People protesting pc are often those that want to continue treating people bad or to see people treated bad by others.
The world is changing and I welcome this change!

Edit: I imagine old farts complaining about pc a while back: "First they took the slaves away and now I can't even hit my woman when she mouths off. What next? Next they'll probably not allow me to have sex with her whenever I want to. Damn those social justice warriors!"

Saying "People protesting pc are often those that want to continue treating people bad or to see people treated bad by others." is appalling and bigotted, and is the same vile attitude that you yourself are speaking out against. When enough people say the same thing, then you should consider that they might be right, and that there might be good reason for what they say. Yes, they might be totally wrong (factually or morally), but they might just be right and the reason you don't agree is because you're not aware of the facts. No doubt some vile people do hate PC, but that doesn't mean that other complains about it are wrong or untrue.

And whilst it's true that political correctness started off with (very very) good reason and intentions, it is nonetheless true that PC-based decisions can and have resulted in some very stupid and harmful results, for example, the tens of thousands of young British girls sexually abused and groomed by Muslim men in Britain, who, when they complained to the authorities were ignored and sent away by the very people who are supposed to help them, because the police and the (so called) justice department didn't want to offend Islam - many of the victims were deliberately wrongly labelled as prostitutes by the authorities so that they (the victims) would have even less belive-ability if their cases went to court. That, by the way, is all documented fact, and has been the subject of a lot of media investigation and reporting, yet not one person in the police or the justice department has been jailed for their part in trying to cover it all up.

Also in England, if you fly an English flag then you can be called a racist, and even be told to take it down. But if you come from any other country, then you can fly your flag in any part of England you like (which I agree with, but I am diametrically opposed to the (mostly white middle class) hypocrites who say that the English flag should never be shown (usually because "It symbolises war and bloodshed and persecution" (which it might do, but if so then so does every country's flag, every country has indulged in war, and attempts at conquest, and has hurt it's own and other countries' people, even though it's not PC to point this out, PC being far more inportant than the truth in the modern world).

And then there's Dianne Abbot, a politician who is a *revolting*, hypocritical racist. But she's black, so everyone in power pretends not to notice her vile attitude, because political correctness. She says things like "White people love playing ‘divide & rule’. We [blacks] should not play their game" (yes, that's a copy and paste of one of her tweets, but I added the '[blacks]' for clarity), and Parliment just looks the other way. If a white person said that, then they'd be kicked out (unless they were wealthy enough to buy their way clear, we are talking politicians after all, but even then they'd have to stay in the background for a while) but Abbott is in a minority, so she's allowed to spew racist bile without fear of consequence. The black people I've met who've mentioned her seem to detest her (since they're not racist bigots, most people are decent enough), as you'd expect, but no one in power will silence her in case they themselves are seen to be trying to censor a black woman.

I could go on, trust me (or you can just google for more examples), but PC is responsible for some very bad things, and currently can seem insane at times. It is true that PC has done *much* good, far more good than harm (I was born in 1970, and so I can remember when non-white or non-British or non-heterosexual or non-male (women!) people really did have to suffer things that wouldn't be allowed now), and the world is overall a much better place for PC, but that doesn't (and shouldn't) blind me to the fact that some very stupid or harmful decisions and acts are caused (partly or totally) by PC considerations that manage to utterly ignore either common sense or the difference between right and wrong. And in Britain at the moment, free speech is fighting a losing war with the (few but insistent) people who prefer to use PC to silent factual debates about anything that they don't want discussed or changed.

Reply 24 of 33, by vvbee

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Dominus wrote:

Beauty contests were always considered leery, weren't they? And about political correctness, if whatever is the latest victim of pc means something badly treated before is now treated better, I'm all for it...
People protesting pc are often those that want to continue treating people bad or to see people treated bad by others.

Heavy confirmation bias going on.

Reply 25 of 33, by Dominus

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a lot of of "get off my lawn" and it used to be better in the olde days going on.

Edit: and the thread is quickly going into the direction of being vile and trashworthy... but not my call, since I'm involved...

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Reply 26 of 33, by Kerr Avon

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Dominus wrote:

a lot of of "get off my lawn" and it used to be better in the olde days going on.

Some things were better back then. Music was (subjectively), and so was the British legal system (factually).

Edit: and the thread is quickly going into the direction of being vile and trashworthy... but not my call, since I'm involved...

What would you point to as "vile and trashworthy" in the thread?

Reply 27 of 33, by oeuvre

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Being PC is fine, eg. promoting diversity. I think the PC stuff that pisses some people off is when people get offended by EVERYTHING, or at least, find excuses to get offended.

There's also something to be said that in this day and age it seems more and more people are of the mindset if your opinion of something trivial, like sports teams or favorite movies/TV shows, etc. is different from mine, you are an enemy.

And in a day of clickbait...

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Reply 28 of 33, by badmojo

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Dominus wrote:

And about political correctness, if whatever is the latest victim of pc means something badly treated before is now treated better, I'm all for it...
People protesting pc are often those that want to continue treating people bad or to see people treated bad by others.
The world is changing and I welcome this change!

Agreed. The good old days weren’t that good for a lot of folks and yes PC is taken to the extreme sometimes, but if we have to endure some “pfffft” worthy headlines while humanity drags its stragglers into modern times then so be it.

Life? Don't talk to me about life.

Reply 29 of 33, by leileilol

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Dominus wrote:

Edit: and the thread is quickly going into the direction of being vile and trashworthy... but not my call, since I'm involved...

+1

oeuvre wrote:

Being PC is fine, eg. promoting diversity.

the title of your recent thread begs to differ

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long live PCem

Reply 30 of 33, by Kerr Avon

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oeuvre wrote:

Being PC is fine, eg. promoting diversity. I think the PC stuff that pisses some people off is when people get offended by EVERYTHING, or at least, find excuses to get offended.

Exactly. Like when Stephen Hawking died, and the Wonder Woman actress, Gal Gadot, tweeted:

"Rest in peace Dr. Hawking. Now you're free of any physical constraints."

which was obviously not meant to be offensive. But she took a lot of flak for it, with people posting things like:

"I think you’re fantastic Gal but this tweet is very ableist. His physical constraints didn’t stop him from changing the world. People with disabilities don’t wish for death to be free of their challenges. We wish to be valued for what we CAN do, not pitied for we can’t."

"Thank you "Wonder Woman" for that completely ableist comment. Being disabled is not a restraint, he is one of the greatest minds in the world AND he was disabled. It did not RESTRAIN him. So disappointed people think this way."

“People with disabilities don’t wish for death to be free of their challenges. We wish to be valued for what we CAN do, not pitied for we can’t.

“That sentiment affects me personally, it affects all people with disabilities because it impacts how we are perceived.

“The unemployment rate for people with disabilities is 70-80% and the idea that disabilities are scary things to be “freed” from is a big reason why.”

People nowadays go out of their way to look for anything that can be taken even very remotely as offensive, just so they can post up about it in a "Look at me, I'm so fair minded and sensitive to the needs of others that I can find offensive where other people have missed it". It's pathetic.

badmojo wrote:
Dominus wrote:

And about political correctness, if whatever is the latest victim of pc means something badly treated before is now treated better, I'm all for it...
People protesting pc are often those that want to continue treating people bad or to see people treated bad by others.
The world is changing and I welcome this change!

Agreed. The good old days weren’t that good for a lot of folks and yes PC is taken to the extreme sometimes, but if we have to endure some “pfffft” worthy headlines while humanity drags its stragglers into modern times then so be it.

But it's not 'headlines' that are so worrying, it's the real people who suffer real pain, such as the thousands of young girls who had to put up with years of rape and abuse just to please the politically correct sh*t who couldn't care less about right or wrong. It's revolting how the far left can trivialise the suffering of others if it comes under the heading of political correctness.

And why should we endure anything if it's wrong? It's right to have your appendix out if it's threatening your life, but if the doctor says "Oh, by the way, when I've removed your appendix, I'm going to cut off your right leg, for a laugh, OK?" you wouldn't accept that would you? So why should we accept the bad about PC with the good when those in power should be able to judge what is right and what is wrong, and disallow the wrong? And if they can't or won't do so, then they should be kicked out of power and replaced by truly responsible people.

Reply 31 of 33, by gdjacobs

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You're conflating the issue, bud. One might just as well say that we should ban famous people because of the Jimmy Savile case.

The answer is to follow effective, documented, defensible methods in investigating crime.

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Reply 32 of 33, by Dominus

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Kerr Abon, nice anecdotal arguments without any proof. The thousand sexualky abused girls case is more complicated than justvPC, especially as it has been going on for years. Being pc to people with islamic background is really really new and not something the police is known for. Not to mention that it's still more common that those practicing islam or looking like they do face open prejudice than pc.

And in the case of Gadot, you conveniently forget that there are many people who use PC as a way to attack celebrities, and some who use every chance to misuse PC with the goal to undermine PC. That's exactly how Russian trolls undermined Anti-Brexit movement and democrat party in the US.

All those anecdotals make this thread trashworthy and your misuse of those girls make it vile IMO

Edit: decided to lock this thread but reported to Qbix for a final decision on this, because as I wrote, I'm too involved in this thread myself. And "Yes, I'm a dreamer." is a good end for the topic 😀
(why I didn't reply but edited this post instead)

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Reply 33 of 33, by tayyare

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Kerr Avon wrote:

Tayyare and Oeuvre, since you both agree with Badmojo's politically correct point of view, can I ask what you'd say to any woman who wanted to participate in a beauty contest even though you personally seem to want them banned simply because you don't like them? I'm not trying to start an argument, but I really don't understand why you think it's wrong or why they belong in the past.

I will have a quick answer since I'm qute busy for something else, but the original sentence was "No complaints here, I'd prefer my daughters grew up in a world where this leery, outdated BS is questioned."

This is what I agree with.

I'm not in anyway supporting to ban anything like a beauty contest. Nobody should ban anything just beacuse it is stupid or merely disturbing to some others sensitivities (just don't involve in or don't watch it for gods sake - which I certainly do). Actually it is a commercial thing, and depends on demand. If people does not demand a bikini clad beauty contest, than there will be no money in it. So there will be no beauty contests as we know today. If there will be a demand so money can be made, there will be nude beauty contest, I'm sure. And I don't care.

What I'm supporting and what I think Oeuvre said is, we both want a future in which people, especially women is less and less objectified. Physical attributes become less and less important. And that sort of thing being questioned by coımmon folk. Absolutely not by banning, but because we are changing for better.

Yes, I'm a dreamer. 😊

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