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First post, by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman

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Hello forum-goers.

I'm building a Windows XP system, and need a motherboard accordingly. Unfortunately, I don't know much about modern (XP era and above) mobos. I need a motherboard that meets the following criteria:

  1. The mobo needs to be full ATX with many expansion slots, not mATX, not mITX, but full ATX motherboard.
  2. I am going to use two GPUs; one Radeon, one GeForce. No, the GPUs aren't supposed to work together. Instead, I'm going to use them in turn; if the old game doesn't work on the Radeon GPU, then I'll switch to the GeForce, and vice versa. As such, the mobo needs to have at least two ×16 PCIe slots.
  3. The mobo needs to have at least a single PCI slot for older sound card, like Diamond MX300 or SB Live!
  4. It would be nice if the mobo has on-board sound card with on-board joystick port (gameport), but it's not a mandatory. At worst, I could always use the built-in gameport on the PCI soundcard mentioned above.
  5. The mobo doesn't need to support the latest Intel/AMD CPU. In fact, something like Core2Duo or early-generations i5 should be fine. My building philosophy is "fast GPU with slower CPU," due to bad experience with Crimson Skies.
  6. Either Intel or AMD is fine. For this particular system I have no particular preference, as long as it runs older games (circa 1999 to 2006) well. The only platform I avoid is Athlon XP, because it needs esoteric, powerful 3.3v and 5v PSU, which is pretty hard to find.

Any brand/model recommendations?

Thanks in advance.

Never thought this thread would be that long, but now, for something different.....
Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman.

Reply 1 of 12, by gdjacobs

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I run a Gigabyte 790X motherboard and I'm satisfied with it. The DDR3 version should be just as good.
https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-MA790X-UD4-rev-10#ov

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 2 of 12, by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman

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gdjacobs wrote:

I run a Gigabyte 790X motherboard and I'm satisfied with it. The DDR3 version should be just as good.
https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-MA790X-UD4-rev-10#ov

2 PCI-E 2.0 x16, just what I need. And did I see two PCI slots there? Looks great. So I could put old PCI sound card on it --like SB Live!-- for the sake of gameport connector.

Thanks buddy!

EDIT: the Gigabyte mobo is pretty hard to find on ebay, but ASUS A8N-SLI Premium 1.02 looks interesting. 2 PCI-E 2.0 x16, and three PCI slots.

ASUS M2N-SLI is also interesting.

Never thought this thread would be that long, but now, for something different.....
Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman.

Reply 3 of 12, by agent_x007

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Pretty sure, there are no boards with Game port on back I/O starting from LGA 775/AM2 and later (some MAY have a header for it on PCB though).
I guess you need full x16 on both PCI-e (?), if so - you have to limit yourself to X38/X48/X58 or nF 680/780/790 chipsets on Intel side, and nF 590/680/780 and 790FX/880FX/990FX on AMD side.
A8N-SLI has PCI-e 1.x x8 (if both are occupied), for full x16, you need A8N32-Deluxe (with nForce 4 x16 chipset).
Personally however, I would go with either xX8 Intel or AM3 (with AMD chipset).

Are both cards you want to use a Dual Slot design ?

Examples :
1) Intel
X38 : LINK/LINK
680i : LINK
790i : LINK
2) AMD
790 FX : LINK/LINK
DFI : LINK <= ONLY IF YOU ARE BRAVE ENOUGH (they can be picky/have weird problems)

157143230295.png

Reply 4 of 12, by gdjacobs

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Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:
2 PCI-E 2.0 x16, just what I need. And did I see two PCI slots there? Looks great. So I could put old PCI sound card on it --lik […]
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gdjacobs wrote:

I run a Gigabyte 790X motherboard and I'm satisfied with it. The DDR3 version should be just as good.
https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-MA790X-UD4-rev-10#ov

2 PCI-E 2.0 x16, just what I need. And did I see two PCI slots there? Looks great. So I could put old PCI sound card on it --like SB Live!-- for the sake of gameport connector.

Thanks buddy!

EDIT: the Gigabyte mobo is pretty hard to find on ebay, but ASUS A8N-SLI Premium 1.02 looks interesting. 2 PCI-E 2.0 x16, and three PCI slots.

ASUS M2N-SLI is also interesting.

When doubled up, the PEG slots are x8 electrical. Hopefully that's not an issue. The FX chipsets can do x16 electrical for duals.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 5 of 12, by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman

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agent_x007 wrote:
Pretty sure, there are no boards with Game port on back I/O starting from LGA 775/AM2 and later (some MAY have a header for it o […]
Show full quote

Pretty sure, there are no boards with Game port on back I/O starting from LGA 775/AM2 and later (some MAY have a header for it on PCB though).
I guess you need full x16 on both PCI-e (?), if so - you have to limit yourself to X38/X48/X58 or nF 680/780/790 chipsets on Intel side, and nF 590/680/780 and 790FX/880FX/990FX on AMD side.
A8N-SLI has PCI-e 1.x x8 (if both are occupied), for full x16, you need A8N32-Deluxe (with nForce 4 x16 chipset).
Personally however, I would go with either xX8 Intel or AM3 (with AMD chipset).

Many thanks for the links! 😀

agent_x007 wrote:

Are both cards you want to use a Dual Slot design ?

Yes they both are. And it brings constraint, which will be explained below.

agent_x007 wrote:

Examples :
1) Intel
X38 : LINK/

Only one PCIe x16 slot, and no PCI slot.

s-l500.jpg

agent_x007 wrote:

Will work. Since both GPUs will be dual-slot, then I can only use one PCI card, but that would be okay.

s-l1600.jpg

agent_x007 wrote:

680i : LINK

I can only use one GPU, or a PCI GPU.

s-l1600.jpg

agent_x007 wrote:

790i : LINK

Worse layout than above.

s-l500.jpg

agent_x007 wrote:

2) AMD
790 FX : LINK/

Same problem with ASUS P5E Intel mobo up there; if I used two GPUs then I can on only use one PCI card, but that's okay.

s-l500.jpg

agent_x007 wrote:

A no-no, because each PCI slot is located to a x16 PCIe slot. So a dual slot GPU, which I'd definitely use, would block the PCI slot.

s-l1600.jpg

agent_x007 wrote:

DFI : LINK <= ONLY IF YOU ARE BRAVE ENOUGH (they can be picky/have weird problems)

I'll pass this one, then.

Eventually, it's a toss up between ASUS P5E WS PRO Motherboard Intel X38 Socket LAG 775 and Gigabyte GA-MA790FX-DS5 rev 1.0, Socket AM2+, AM3 AMD.

Now, I need a CPU that is:

  1. slow enough to play 2000 to 2002 computer games, like Crimson Skies. i5 and above is a no-no. If the CPU is easy to underclock, then it's a plus.
  2. the least problematic to run old games (early Windows XP games).
  3. fast enough to run BASSMIDI driver (with large sound fonts) without too much stuttering/lagging.
  4. fast enough to play 640x480 DOS games in DOSBOX.
  5. also, I heavily multitask in office works; that is, opening multiple browser tabs with multiple MS office documents, and sometimes with Photoshop opened. And with foobar2000 playing music in the background. Do I really need multi-core CPU for this?

So, am I better go with AM2/AM3 AMD CPU, or LGA 775 Intel CPU?

gdjacobs wrote:

When doubled up, the PEG slots are x8 electrical. Hopefully that's not an issue. The FX chipsets can do x16 electrical for duals.

My GPUs will be GeForce GTX 295 (SLI on single board) for older games, and Radeon HD 7850 for newer games. It seems both cards need x16 electrical, or am I wrong?

Never thought this thread would be that long, but now, for something different.....
Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman.

Reply 6 of 12, by cyclone3d

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They would work at x8, but x16 would make sure you get full bandwidth available to each card.

I have tried one and they work with some sound cards and some they do not.

As a side note, you can also run a hybrid graphics system.. using the AMD card to render and the Nvidia card for hardware PhysX.

Personally I would only choose between LGA1366(x58) on the Intel side and AM3/AM3+ on the AMD side.

Here are a few x58 motherboard that will fit the bill:
ASUS P6T (will give you one usable PCI slot
ASUS P6T SE (will give you 1 usable PCI slot
ASUS P6T Deluxe (will give you 1 usable PCI slot)
Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD3R or UD3P - either should give you one usable PCI slot

Supermicro X8SAX C7X58 (linking a sale here - not mine - because I am pretty sure this would be really hard to find... and you will have 2 usable 64-bit PCI slots - 32-bit cards will work fine in the 64-bit slots. It is also going to be one of the cheaper available x58 options. (shipping might kinda suck for you though)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Supermicro-X8SAX-C7X … rd/392046200472

I'm not as well versed with the AMD side of things from that period. I will say that if you want an 8-core FX CPU, go with an AM3+ motherboard that specifically supports it. Some AM3 board do work with the FX CPUs, but are generally not going to be as stable/compatible as the ones specifically made to work with the FX CPUs.

You also need to check the actual PCIe slot arrangement if you look at one with more than 2x PCIe x16 slots as it is a tossup on what slots are actually x16 electrically.

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK

Reply 7 of 12, by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman

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cyclone3d wrote:

They would work at x8, but x16 would make sure you get full bandwidth available to each card.

And what the worst could happen if the GPU doesn't get full bandwidth?

cyclone3d wrote:
I have tried one and they work with some sound cards and some they do not. […]
Show full quote

I have tried one and they work with some sound cards and some they do not.

As a side note, you can also run a hybrid graphics system.. using the AMD card to render and the Nvidia card for hardware PhysX.

Personally I would only choose between LGA1366(x58) on the Intel side and AM3/AM3+ on the AMD side.

Here are a few x58 motherboard that will fit the bill:
ASUS P6T (will give you one usable PCI slot
ASUS P6T SE (will give you 1 usable PCI slot
ASUS P6T Deluxe (will give you 1 usable PCI slot)
Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD3R or UD3P - either should give you one usable PCI slot

ASUS P6T Deluxe can perhaps give me three usable x16 PCIe slots and one usable PCI slot. From the pic below, I could put my GTX 295 (dual slot GPU) in the outermost PCIe slot (the black PCIe slot), then my Radeon HD 7850 (dual slot GPU) in the innermost PCIe slot (the blue PCI slot), then a single-slot GeForce for PhysX in the white PCIe slot.

s-l1600.jpg

ASUS P6T SE would also work well for the purpose --if not better.

s-l1600.jpg

cyclone3d wrote:

Supermicro X8SAX C7X58 (linking a sale here - not mine - because I am pretty sure this would be really hard to find... and you will have 2 usable 64-bit PCI slots - 32-bit cards will work fine in the 64-bit slots. It is also going to be one of the cheaper available x58 options. (shipping might kinda suck for you though)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Supermicro-X8SAX-C7X … rd/392046200472

Er.... not really. 😉

Would a sound card as old as Sound Blaster Live! work in 64-bit PCI slot? And would the 64-bit PCI slot interfere with the sound card's gameport?

cyclone3d wrote:

I'm not as well versed with the AMD side of things from that period. I will say that if you want an 8-core FX CPU, go with an AM3+ motherboard that specifically supports it. Some AM3 board do work with the FX CPUs, but are generally not going to be as stable/compatible as the ones specifically made to work with the FX CPUs.

You also need to check the actual PCIe slot arrangement if you look at one with more than 2x PCIe x16 slots as it is a tossup on what slots are actually x16 electrically.

I see. Thanks for the tip.

What I'm looking for is a CPU that is slow enough to run older games. Some games like Tachyon: The Fringe doesn't seem to like fast CPU too much. Ironically, Tachyon: The Fringe would benefit from fast GPU, especially if you set AA to max. As such, anything faster or as fast as i5 is a no-no, except if you could easily underclock the CPU.

Still, the CPU needs to be fast enough to run 640x480 games in DOSBOX, and needs to be fast enough to run BASSMIDI.

Also, I noticed that in my AMD Athlon II X4 2.6 GHz / Radeon HD 7770 desktop PC, some old games just crash on start. Examples are Heavy Metal: F.A.K.K. 2, Hoard, and Far Cry. However, they run fine on my Intel i5 2.4 GHz / GeForce 310M laptop. I'm not sure whether the cause is AMD CPU or Radeon GPU, and I don't have the time yet to test the Radeon HD 7770 on one of my office computers (which have Intel CPU).

Never thought this thread would be that long, but now, for something different.....
Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman.

Reply 8 of 12, by cyclone3d

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You would see a slight decrease in performance when running at x8 instead of x16.

Yes, an old SBLive or MX300 should work fine in a 64-bit slot.

I checked and both of those cards are keyed so they will fit in a 64-bit slot.

Not sure what you mean by "would it have a problem interfering with the gameport". It should just work.

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK

Reply 9 of 12, by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman

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cyclone3d wrote:

You would see a slight decrease in performance when running at x8 instead of x16.

Ah, I see. Can live with that. The system is to play old games anyway.

cyclone3d wrote:

Yes, an old SBLive or MX300 should work fine in a 64-bit slot.

I checked and both of those cards are keyed so they will fit in a 64-bit slot.

SBLive CT 4760 won't fit into 64-bit PCI slot, the notch isn't just there.

s-l1600.jpg

cyclone3d wrote:

Not sure what you mean by "would it have a problem interfering with the gameport". It should just work.

I see. But CT 4760 won't fit anyway.

In any case, I think I'll go for ASUS P6T SE anyway, because it gives me three full length PCIe slots and one usable PCI slot.

I'll only use the PCI slot for legacy PCI sound card anyway --probably SBLive-- and only for gameport. If I want EAX, I'd rather use USB sound card like X-Fi Surround 5.1 USB or Extigy.

Never thought this thread would be that long, but now, for something different.....
Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman.

Reply 10 of 12, by cyclone3d

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Oh.. weird. That one is not keyed to be able to work in a 64-bit slot. That's Creative for you.

Looks like SB0100, SB0220, and SB4870 as well as all the low profile ones would work in a 64-bit slot.

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK

Reply 11 of 12, by agent_x007

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OK, you were too slow (listings ended and ebay reused links for something else...).
New line-up (with models this time, so you know what to look for 😉)
X58 :
Rampage III Extreme - LINK
P6T : LINK
P6T Deluxe : LINK
LGA 775 :
DO NOT buy nForce based board (they will try to melt under this GTX 295 of yours, unless you watercool them/it)
X38 :
Examples : P5E WS Pro (seen before) or P5E64 Pro : LINK
P5E/Rampage Formula/Maximus Formula (all have the same layout) : LINK
Maximus Extreme : LINK
GA-X38-DS4 : LINK
GA-X38-DQ6 : LINK
X48 :
Examples :
GA-X48-DQ6 : LINK

157143230295.png

Reply 12 of 12, by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman

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I guess I'll go with either ASUS Rampage III Extreme, ASUS P6T or P6T SE (but not deluxe), or ASUS Maximus Extreme, because a mobo that gives me three full-length PCIe slots and one PCI slot is preferable than a mobo that gives me two full-length PCIe and two PCI.

With three full-length PCIe slots and one PCI slot, I could have two high end GPUs, one GeForce, one Radeon, for gaming purpose; a lesser GeForce GPU for PhysX, and a legacy PCI sound card like Sound Blaster Live!, mostly for gameport joystick.

With two full-length PCIe slots and two PCI slots, I couldn't have the extra lesser GPU for PhysX. And what should I do with the remaining PCI slot?

Never thought this thread would be that long, but now, for something different.....
Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman.