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Reply 20 of 39, by cyclone3d

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Well, I have 2 different 5.25" floppies and the DOS CD (the one with just Lemmings) on the way.

They were cheap on eBay AND I used the 15% off coupon.

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I did check on the betaarchive ftp site but they didn't have anything besides the regular 3.5" version and a mismarked alt 3.5" that was actually Lemmings Chronicles, which by the way has choices for Sound Blaster and GUS.

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Reply 22 of 39, by dr_st

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cyclone3d wrote:

Lemmings Chronicles, which by the way has choices for Sound Blaster and GUS.

Oh joy, so many different ways to crash. 🤣

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Reply 23 of 39, by cyclone3d

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Got the Lemmings DOS CD today. It is just the standard floppy version on a CD.

The total size is less than 500KB. This really makes me wonder what the triple 5.25" floppy version is.

But I am really not inclined to spend $30 + shipping for that media.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
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Reply 24 of 39, by dr_st

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Good timing. I can also report on the Lemmings + Oh No! More Lemmings CD.

The disk looks like the image on Mobygames, except it says "Psygnosis 1995" and "Exclusively distributed by Slash corporation" instead of "SONY". Mine came with no cover (CD only) in a generic box.

The CD contents is as follows:

Folder PATH listing for volume LEMMINGS CD ROM_________________
Volume serial number is 8342-8205
E:.
│ INSTALL.EXE
│ LEMMINGS.EXE
│ OHNO.EXE

├───LEMMINGS
│ ADLIB.DAT
│ GROUND0O.DAT
│ GROUND1O.DAT
│ GROUND2O.DAT
│ GROUND3O.DAT
│ GROUND4O.DAT
│ LEVEL000.DAT
│ LEVEL001.DAT
│ LEVEL002.DAT
│ LEVEL003.DAT
│ LEVEL004.DAT
│ LEVEL005.DAT
│ LEVEL006.DAT
│ LEVEL007.DAT
│ LEVEL008.DAT
│ LEVEL009.DAT
│ MAIN.DAT
│ ODDTABLE.DAT
│ TANDYSND.DAT
│ VGAGR0.DAT
│ VGAGR1.DAT
│ VGAGR2.DAT
│ VGAGR3.DAT
│ VGAGR4.DAT
│ VGALEMMI.EXE
│ VGASPEC0.DAT
│ VGASPEC1.DAT
│ VGASPEC2.DAT
│ VGASPEC3.DAT

└───OHNO
ADLIB.DAT
CURRENT.STS
DLVEL000.DAT
DLVEL001.DAT
DLVEL002.DAT
DLVEL003.DAT
DLVEL004.DAT
DLVEL005.DAT
DLVEL006.DAT
DLVEL007.DAT
DLVEL008.DAT
DLVEL009.DAT
DLVEL010.DAT
DLVEL011.DAT
DLVEL012.DAT
GROUND0O.DAT
GROUND1O.DAT
GROUND2O.DAT
GROUND3O.DAT
LEMMINGS.BAT
MAIN.DAT
Show last 8 lines
        TANDYSND.DAT
TGAMAIN.DAT
VGAGR0.DAT
VGAGR1.DAT
VGAGR2.DAT
VGAGR3.DAT
VGALEMMI.EXE

In addition to the data track, there are 23 audio tracks on the disk.

Playing the games

Each of the two games can be run either from the root directory, or by calling VGALEMMI.EXE in the respective directories. The games can be run directly from the CD or "installed" on the hard drive, but the installation program only copies over LEMMINGS.EXE and OHNO.EXE from the root of the CD, so all the data files are always loaded from the CD.

It is possible to manually copy the entire contents onto the hard drive, but as the executables are hard-coded to play CD audio, you will still need the CD (any CD) in the drive.

The first time you run LEMMINGS.EXE or OHNO.EXE after installing them onto the hard drive, the setup program asks you to configure the audio and system parameters and saves them in CDLEMM.CFG for future use. The only audio options, as expected are: PC Speaker, Adlib, and Tandy - which confirms the knowledge gathered so far - no DOS version of Lemmings has Sound Blaster digital audio effects. If you run the games directly from the CD, it will ask you every time, because the configuration file cannot be saved, obviously.

For whatever reason, running the games through LEMMINGS.EXE or OHNO.EXE is not sensitive to the audio detection bug on fast CPUs, while running VGALEMMI.EXE directly still is, so if the CPU is too fast (or CYCLES are too high in DOSBox), it will default to PC speaker effects only, although the CD tracks still play fine.

Thoughts about the CD music

The CD music is basically a digitally synthesized version of the original MIDI tracks. It sounds nice, but there are downsides - the tracks are not long, and there is a fade-out at the end of each, so for most levels you will have a few seconds of silence before it starts over, unlike the seamless looping of the FM audio. Also, there is 1-2 seconds pause at the beginning of each level for the CD to spin up. Finally, there are a few clicks (audio glitches) in some of the tracks (my CD is not scratched; the clicks were introduced during recording and are part of the audio tracks). More on it here: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=1485.0

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Reply 25 of 39, by 640K!enough

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It's not quite what's being discussed here, but I have an old copy of Lemmings 2, copyright 1993 by Psygnosis. Somewhat surprisingly, the two high-density 3.5" floppy disks still seem to be readable. Its installation process includes sound selections, and supports PC speaker, Ad Lib, Sound Blaster, Roland and Roland + Sound Blaster EDIT and Tandy. Presumably "Roland" means MT-32.

I can't comment on how it works or what sounds are included, as I haven't convinced it to run yet. Either it really doesn't like IWSBOS, and I need to try a different card, or there is a problem with the system being too fast or having too much memory. I will have another look soon, to see if it's easy enough to actually get running on such a machine.

Last edited by 640K!enough on 2018-09-01, 18:24. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 26 of 39, by dr_st

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640K!enough wrote:

It's not quite what's being discussed here

The original question, as stated in the title, is - does there exist a DOS version of the original Lemmings (not Lemmings 2), which supports digital sound effects, like the Amiga and Windows 95 variants. So far, no such version has been discovered.

640K!enough wrote:

I have an old copy of Lemmings 2, copyright 1993 by Psygnosis. Somewhat surprisingly, the two high-density 3.5" floppy disks still seem to be readable. Its installation process includes sound selections, and supports PC speaker, Ad Lib, Sound Blaster, Roland and Roland + Sound Blaster. Presumably "Roland" means MT-32.

Indeed, MT-32 or compatible (not General MIDI).

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Reply 27 of 39, by cyclone3d

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Got the other two 5.25" disks today.

Both are just the standard Lemmings with Adlib sound/music.

Edit:
It sounds like there is a DOS version of Lemmings 1 or at least a double pack that includes Oh No More Lemmings that supports more than just Adlib sound/music.

I am going by the instructions seen on this page:
https://www.lakora.us/lemmings/dox/

Supported Graphics and Sound Boards: Lemmings supports CGA, Tandy, EGA, and VGA graphics. Lemmings also supports AdLib, […]
Show full quote

Supported Graphics and Sound Boards:
Lemmings supports CGA, Tandy, EGA, and VGA
graphics. Lemmings also supports AdLib, SoundBlaster, Tandy,
Covox, and Thunderboard enhanced sound capabilities.
Lemmings automatically attempts to configure itself for optimum
performance on your computer.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header

Reply 28 of 39, by cyclone3d

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One of the Sound Blaster 16 packages that came with Lemmings was:
Sound Blaster Edutainment CD 16

I'm wondering if it is that specific version that may have the digital sound effects in DOS.

I am still not finding any reference to digital sound effects in DOS for Lemmings 1 though.

It sounds to me like the only versions that had digital sound were Amiga, Windows, and Playstation 1.
www.vgmpf.com/Wiki/index.php/Let's_Go!

@Alltinker... did it have Adlib music or midi music in DOS?

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header

Reply 29 of 39, by AllTinker

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cyclone3d wrote:

@Alltinker... did it have Adlib music or midi music in DOS?

Definitely AdLib - the DOS versions I've found myself sound essentially identical music-wise to what I remember. I've since tried the Windows MIDI music (on vintage Windows) and I can safely say I've never heard it like that before.

And yeah, I'm hoping someone has either the Sound Blaster Pro (1.0?) or 16/CD bundled version (or to find them myself) - if neither of those have digital sound, well, I'm stumped!

Reply 30 of 39, by cyclone3d

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Ok, so I have another copy of Lemmings 1 on the way. This time in 3x 5.25" disks. This one is different than then more expensive one I am contemplating getting but is disks only and each disk has a different color label.

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Now the normal version of lemmings 1 can easily fit on a 720k 3.5" floppy with a couple hundred KB to spare, if I remember right, so why would you need 3x 5.25" floppies if it is the same exact version?

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header

Reply 31 of 39, by SarahWalker

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AllTinker wrote:

And yeah, I'm hoping someone has either the Sound Blaster Pro (1.0?) or 16/CD bundled version (or to find them myself) - if neither of those have digital sound, well, I'm stumped!

Don't know if it's helpful, but I have the version bundled with the SB Pro v2.0 and it's the same as the retail version, ie no digital effects.

Reply 32 of 39, by AllTinker

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SarahWalker wrote:

Don't know if it's helpful, but I have the version bundled with the SB Pro v2.0 and it's the same as the retail version, ie no digital effects.

Thanks, that's certainly helpful.

If the same version is bundled with the SB 2.0 and Pro 2.0, it does seem very unlikely that the SB Pro 1.0 or SB16 bundled version would be different.

Sigh, this is definitely going to continue to haunt me though. 🤣

Reply 33 of 39, by cyclone3d

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Received the 5.25" different colored disks today and it just has Adlib sound and music.

It is the original May release of it as well so that is nice.

So yeah.. not sure what to say about the PCM sound in DOS with Adlib music.

The only version I am aware of that I haven't tried is the 3x 5.25" disks with the black label with white writing. I'm guessing that is just the later release of the game.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header

Reply 34 of 39, by Kirben

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cyclone3d wrote:
It sounds like there is a DOS version of Lemmings 1 or at least a double pack that includes Oh No More Lemmings that supports mo […]
Show full quote

It sounds like there is a DOS version of Lemmings 1 or at least a double pack that includes Oh No More Lemmings that supports more than just Adlib sound/music.

I am going by the instructions seen on this page:
https://www.lakora.us/lemmings/dox/

Supported Graphics and Sound Boards: Lemmings supports CGA, Tandy, EGA, and VGA graphics. Lemmings also supports AdLib, […]
Show full quote

Supported Graphics and Sound Boards:
Lemmings supports CGA, Tandy, EGA, and VGA
graphics. Lemmings also supports AdLib, SoundBlaster, Tandy,
Covox, and Thunderboard enhanced sound capabilities.
Lemmings automatically attempts to configure itself for optimum
performance on your computer.

I own the Lemmings / Oh No More Lemmings CD bundle, that includes that specific documentation. The CD has a green/yellow cover art of a lemming.

Maybe it just refers to sound compatibility? there are no sound options, and running without the CD errors out.

Reply 35 of 39, by cyclone3d

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Are the sound effects digital or are they still FM only?

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header

Reply 36 of 39, by cyclone3d

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On another note, I now have these black label with white writing versions on the way:

3x 5.25" - Lemmings
1x 5.25" DD - Oh No! More Lemmings
3x 5.25" Lemmings EGA/VGA demo disks (think 3 copies and not a 3 disk set)

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header

Reply 38 of 39, by Kirben

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cyclone3d wrote:

Are the sound effects digital or are they still FM only?

Sound effects still seem FM only, and no sound options are offered for the command line.

The installer only offers a choice of 'PC Internal Speaker, Adlib, and Tandy' for sound, which are stored in 'CDLEMM.CFG'.
It seems like the same CD version you described above, only with the documentation added to the disc.

Wouldn't a version with digital sound effects require an extra sound file too? like ADLIB.DAT and TANDYSND.DAT

Reply 39 of 39, by Stretch

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According to Lemmings Music Player the decompressed file adlib.dat has both music and sounds. So, there is no indication of digital fx.

I stumbled onto this program because it almost works with Mortal Kombat 1's adlib.drv, except only 1 sec of music plays.

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