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First post, by AAGPCN

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What was the last version of "classic" BASIC released by Microsoft? By "classic" I mean with line numbers (similar to Fortran) prior to "Structured Code" and prior to "Object Oriented Code" and prior to "Visual BASIC" ?? I have Compaq BASIC Ver 3.31 (Copyright 1987 MicroSoft) running under DOS Vers 3.3. Which I love.

Is this the latest "classic" version? Are version numbers listed somewhere from MicroSoft? If I wanted to buy an original copy (on DVD, CD, Flashdrive) where would I get it?

Thanks for any help and guidance.

Reply 4 of 15, by Zup

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AFAIK QuickBASIC has "structured code".

But I don't really know what does he means as "classic BASIC". I guess he refers to BASIC with line numbers (as in Sinclair BASIC), but I remember that QBASIC and QuickBASIC could use line numbers. QBASIC is also a BASIC interpreter (as old DOS BASIC versions), opposed to a QuickBASIC being a BASIC compiler.

BTW, you can do "structured code" in any language (even in assembler)... although old BASIC dialects and assembler lacks dedicated instructions/mnemonics, you can simulate them.

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Reply 5 of 15, by Jo22

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AAGPCN wrote:

Is this the latest "classic" version? Are version numbers listed somewhere from MicroSoft? If I wanted to buy an original copy (on DVD, CD, Flashdrive) where would I get it?

Both QBASIC and QB fully support line numbers and GOTO. It's just that they are nolonger mandatory.
However, if you save your GW-BASIC programs with "SAVE"NAME.bAS",A, they are saved in plain ASCII instead of token format.
Then they can be read and written to by any BASIC language, including QuickBASIC and Turbo BASIC/PowerBASIC.

0kool wrote:

I managed to find QuickBASIC 4.5 (1988) on 2 floppies. Just what I was looking for. According to Wiki it is the last version.

There's also PDS BASIC 7.x and Visual BASIC for DOS. Both are siblings of Quick BASIC 4.5.
They can read and compile QB files. VB DOS is a tick more compatible to QB45, I believe.

If you're looking for the predecessor of QBASIC, have a look at GW-BASIC or MBASIC.
MBASIC is older than GW-BASIC and can compile programs. It was popular in the days of CP/M
and the Altair 8800 and IMSAI 8080 computers.

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Reply 6 of 15, by AAGPCN

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Thanks to all who responded. This complements what I have read on Wikipedia.

My interest in the "older version" of BASIC is simple. I worked a lot with Fortran 1962 - 1996 for some scientific and engineering computing. Subsequently I needed a simple way to do some mathematical calculations for my own interest and some online mathematics teaching. I found the "Structured" and "Object Oriented" programs to be confusing to follow. I was well versed in drawing out large logic flow diagrams, numbering major subroutines, and coding from there. This is just a way to be efficient and to "relive some of the past"!!

Regards to all.

Reply 7 of 15, by shamino

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It sounds like QBasic would do what you want, and it's included with at least the later versions of MSDOS that I'm familiar with. Maybe even with Win9x - I never looked.
It's evolved a bit in that It only requires labels for the points in your program that you might jump to, but it doesn't mind if you use traditional line numbering. It's still what I'd call an old style BASIC and is compatible with older code, and it has a built in help function which is handy.

Reply 8 of 15, by Gene Wirchenko

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Jo22 wrote:

If you're looking for the predecessor of QBASIC, have a look at GW-BASIC or MBASIC.
MBASIC is older than GW-BASIC and can compile programs. It was popular in the days of CP/M
and the Altair 8800 and IMSAI 8080 computers.

As well as a compiler, it also came as an interpreter.

Sincererly,

Gene Wirchenko

Reply 9 of 15, by Jo22

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Thanks Gene, I wasn't sure about this so I made a general statement! 😊
- My father used to use it in the late 70s/early 80s when he didn't had got an Altair or IMSAI, but a Sharp MZ-80K.
From what he told me when I was little, he modiefied the monitor and several parts of CP/M for it so he could
boot CP/M (Control Program/Monitor) with his own floppy controller. By that time, he still got an 8" drive,
but quickly switched to the new 5,25" drives. When I was little, he showed me his original copy of Turbo Pascal on
an 8" floppy! Boy, that thing was huge! 😁 Later on, he first moved to the Sharp MZ-700, then the IBM PCs,
but all the time kept using his CP/M-80 programs in Z80MU. His favorite or at least first x86 PC was
the PC-1512, I believe. It came with Locomotive BASIC. by the way.

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In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 10 of 15, by noshutdown

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i assume its gwbasic3.23 that works with line numbers. after that its replaced by qbasic and although it still supports line numbers, they have nothing to do with the order of the lines being executed.
also i wonder whats the oldest dos version of microsoft basic that runs with pc compatibles(without ibm rom basic)? the oldest i can find is something within compaq ms-dos1.25, and its called "the compaq personal computer basic version 1.13", and its an exe file. i had found some older versions in the form of com files(mostly from other oem versions of msdos1.25), but they don't run in dosbox.

Reply 11 of 15, by Jo22

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noshutdown wrote:

i assume its gwbasic3.23 that works with line numbers.

Possibly. I used v3.11 for a very long time.

noshutdown wrote:

after that its replaced by qbasic and although it still supports line numbers, they have nothing to do with the order of the lines being executed.

You're right, it seems. Just checked in QB 4.5.
May I ask why you require BASIC to sort the order of line numbers ? 😕

I'm curious, because what you're asking for is against what MS originally had intended (when moving to modern BASIC).
Microsoft even released a tool, REMLINE.BAS, that helped to get rid of line numbers.

Back in time, it was assumed that programs using them were written -or at least saved with-
the help of GW-BASIC/BASICA, which in turn did the number sorting beforehand.

For maximum compatibility, QB even has a parameter, QB /MBF,
to support the old MBF math format.

BASCOM2, I heard, also drew out support for processing code by the order of line numbers.

That beeing said, it's still possible to use a more traditional BASIC flavor
with the help of emulators for diverse platforms.

Personally, I used to run my faher's copy of MBASIC on a Z-80 emulator, Zemu,
that could run a real copy of CP/M of CP/M and display the ouput on
either a virtual teletype or a CRT console.

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"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 12 of 15, by noshutdown

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Jo22 wrote:
You're right, it seems. Just checked in QB 4.5. May I ask why you require BASIC to sort the order of line numbers ? :confused: […]
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You're right, it seems. Just checked in QB 4.5.
May I ask why you require BASIC to sort the order of line numbers ? 😕

I'm curious, because what you're asking for is against what MS originally had intended (when moving to modern BASIC).
Microsoft even released a tool, REMLINE.BAS, that helped to get rid of line numbers.

🤣, its not me who want line numbers, i used qb for a few years and had not trouble getting rid of them. but TS seems to be an oldschool programmer who is more at home with code lines sorted with line numbers.
still, i wanna know whats the oldest version of microsoft basic than runs on dos without the presence of ibm's rom basic.

Reply 13 of 15, by tayyare

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AAGPCN wrote:

Thanks to all who responded. This complements what I have read on Wikipedia.

My interest in the "older version" of BASIC is simple. I worked a lot with Fortran 1962 - 1996 for some scientific and engineering computing. Subsequently I needed a simple way to do some mathematical calculations for my own interest and some online mathematics teaching. I found the "Structured" and "Object Oriented" programs to be confusing to follow. I was well versed in drawing out large logic flow diagrams, numbering major subroutines, and coding from there. This is just a way to be efficient and to "relive some of the past"!!

Regards to all.

I was doing much work with FORTRAN (77) during late 80s - late 90s and there was no line numbers (except the points in your program that you might jump to or DO loops, etc.). Older versions (pre 77) had numbers for each line?

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Reply 14 of 15, by AAGPCN

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Thanks to all who replied...!
I later found excellent summaries of all this in Wikipedia.....

1) "Commodore Basic"
2) "Microsoft Basic"

I guess this all combined tells me what I wanted to know! I do like my Basic 3.31 which came with my Compaq Portable III in 1988. The documentation is excellent. The Basic Manual is a 3-ring rectangular book about 3 inches thick. This has everything!! It also came with a similar book for DOS 3.31.

Reply 15 of 15, by noshutdown

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which one is newer, the compaq basic 3.31 or gwbasic 3.23, thats a question...
the compaq one has larger version number and a newer date of 1990, but its smaller at 79434bytes, and comes with a re-release of the old compaq-dos3.31 which was from 1987.
the microsoft one has an older date from 1988, but its larger at 80608bytes, and comes with msdos4.0 which was released in 1988.
the microsoft one also displays less message at start, so that additional 1000+ bytes must have been used for something else.