luckybob wrote:

Yeah, let's be a dick to a guy for making a small mistake in a sale.

I hope I never sell anything to you.

Doing a return when not getting what you ordered because the seller listed it wrong is being a dick?

luckybob wrote:

Yeah, let's be a dick to a guy for making a small mistake in a sale.

I hope I never sell anything to you.

Unless the person that made the listing doesn't even have a 1st grade education, they should definitely have been able to read what listing as "USED" specifically says when they made the listing.

When I see listings like that that people list as "USED" or "NEW" and then see that they have all these contradicting conditions in the body of the listing, it makes me think that they are definitely intentionally trying to mislead potential buyers.

Well when the description clearly states untested. Only to return it on a technicality.... Yes, that's a dick move.

Like I said previously, if the description said "tested and working" and it arrived dead. Boom, return.

Using a technicality of the used flag is Crux of the issue here.

Anyone reading the description knew it was untested AT BEST, and typically untested means broken in this hobby. That's why untested pars are usually so cheap.

AGAIN, the little flag to choose between new/used/parts is INCREDIBLY easy to miss on the sale page. I'd wager that is what happened here.

luckybob wrote:

Well when the description clearly states untested. Only to return it on a technicality.... Yes, that's a dick move. […]
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Well when the description clearly states untested. Only to return it on a technicality.... Yes, that's a dick move.

Like I said previously, if the description said "tested and working" and it arrived dead. Boom, return.

Using a technicality of the used flag is Crux of the issue here.

Anyone reading the description knew it was untested AT BEST, and typically untested means broken in this hobby. That's why untested pars are usually so cheap.

AGAIN, the little flag to choose between new/used/parts is INCREDIBLY easy to miss on the sale page. I'd wager that is what happened here.

I sell a lot of stuff on eBay. I go and verify my listings after telling it to post.

And it is really not hard to miss unless you are being careless and not paying attention to what you are doing.

And after you post an item, a pop-up comes up with a link to go look at your new listing.

Also, what about NEW listings? I can pretty much for-sure guarantee you that most people, myself included, do not open new items to test them before sending them out. Does this mean that if I put "untested" in the listing it absolves me from being responsible if I send a broken item to a buyer?

luckybob wrote:

Well when the description clearly states untested. Only to return it on a technicality.... Yes, that's a dick move. […]
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Well when the description clearly states untested. Only to return it on a technicality.... Yes, that's a dick move.

Like I said previously, if the description said "tested and working" and it arrived dead. Boom, return.

Using a technicality of the used flag is Crux of the issue here.

Anyone reading the description knew it was untested AT BEST, and typically untested means broken in this hobby. That's why untested pars are usually so cheap.

AGAIN, the little flag to choose between new/used/parts is INCREDIBLY easy to miss on the sale page. I'd wager that is what happened here.

It's not a technicality, it's what people based their purchasing decisions on, and it did influence OP to buy the item, presumably because he thought the seller thought it was working.

If it was a mistake or not and how easy it would be to make that mistake isn't all that relevant to anything. The seller misrepresented an item he was selling and should be accepting a return on that basis.

Let's just agree to disagree here. It's clear I'm not going to reach you on this. That's fine, you do you. I do not believe the used tag auto-magically entitles you to a return should something go amiss.

ZellSF wrote:

dr_st wrote:

ZellSF wrote:

While I do believe OP should have paid better attention, this was an item sold as working, probably by a person intentionally trying to scam people.

Writing working in large text, then hiding away that it's actually not in the description, is exactly what I expect eBay buyer protection to help against.

I think your assumption is unfounded. Where did you see "writing working in large text", hiding details in the description? Did you make that up because you automatically assume the seller is a scammer? It can be just as well someone not versed in the details of what eBay expects the descriptions to mean, especially if it's a new seller, or someone who sells rarely. Note also that eBay's condition description are anything BUT "large text".

How so? It's their categorization system which is how you find stuff. It's very much the large text (being that people would definitely miss the listing without it) and the description shouldn't contradict it. There's only two reasons why it would: either you're trying to scam your customers, or you can't read yourself. In the latter case, you should refund your customer because that's your mistake.

Please see the attached picture for an example of how things appear when you look at an item. Note that the part about used meaning fully working cannot even be seen without clicking Read more! Then compare the font size between the condition and the actual description, and now please try to again make your point how "fully working" is "in large text" and "untested" is "hiding away in the description".

Hard as it may be to make the switch, there is no need to assume all sellers are scammers.

Sorry, I will take what is written in the condition field as the truth over what is written in the description, no matter how large you make the font. As that is a pre-selected field that I expect to be correct when purchasing things on Ebay.

If condition is Used, I expect it to more or less work according to the level of wear and tear I can see in the photo's
If condition is New, I expect it to be new in package or close too (I've probably waited 2 months for delivery, I'm not that fussy by that stage)
If condition is Untested, then I'll assume it is broken and will usually not bother with such listings.
If condition is not working/broken, then if it is something I am really interested in, I'll have a look at the description where the seller might describe the fault, and if it looks like something fixable or mis-configured, I'll take a punt.

Then you can use the description to go into more detail about the above. If the description and the condition contradict each other, I'll either take use condition as the real answer (because that is what ebay does) or just walk away because the listing is dodgy.

Of course if you write "IT IS BROKEN" in 48pt font in your description, I'll just go screaming for the hill instead. I don't really need that kind of hassle in my life.

Just to be clear... when something is listed USED it is supposed to work. Description can say untested. But this doesn't qualify it as a working or broken. I've tested it and it doesn't work. Usually pictures and video was enough to do my part. Now I should take it to some repair show that would give me a written report that it doesn't work. Like the part was new or newer... I can make a few calls around to see if any repair shop will take 25 years old motherboard for a test. I believe most will just laugh about it (maybe not directly on the phone, but it will be a laugh after for sure).

What bothers me is the eBay procedure and that they don't care if the part is 25 years old.

I payed 50€ for it with shipping. You be the judge if it's cheap or not - I sold many for less in a working state.

eBay wants to refund me 10€. I might just take it as this is getting ridiculous. I've lost time testing it, lost time debating the user, lost time debating with eBay... now they say even if I get all the documents, they won't cover return shipping as they only cover it within Germany. Next time I certainly won't use eBay.de for purchases and open a case with PayPal first if it's possible.

I'm not even sure anymore if that "Untested" in the description has any meaning at all. As I have to prove it doesn't work with losing more money and time driving around and paying for testing the board... non-sense!

Both listing and description is important. If you don't read the description you cannot say it's the selker's fault. If the picture shows the box of whatever and the listing says used but the description only mentions it's only the box and not actually whatever... you see where I'm getting at.

Hey. Rule of thumb? Dont bring up ebay or other marketplaces here unless you are trying to help a member track down parts.
After the shutdown of the ebay thread it doesnt seem smart to go linking ebay and trying to start a crusade against an ebay seller.

@Dominus... I'm more convinced that "Used" and "Untested" thing doesn't matter much in this case. eBay wants a 3rd party's opinion on the matter and this is what bothers me. Pictures and video ought to be enough. I'm just not sure what that eBay protection and money back is all about. For small amounts no one will go around seeking opinions by a professional repair service. I won't get broke for 40€ (after 10€ refund) and neither will the seller. If the seller was honest and really didn't know what is the condition. He should sell it "For parts" this way there is no eBay protection. And in this case I'm wondering what the eBay protection actually is?

@ODwilly... you're missing a point here.

I have the feeling that the seller was able to contest the ebay protection for some reason (description?) and thus the protection didn't come fully into play.

Odwilly, please stay on topic

canthearu wrote:

Sorry, I will take what is written in the condition field as the truth over what is written in the description, no matter how la […]
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Sorry, I will take what is written in the condition field as the truth over what is written in the description, no matter how large you make the font. As that is a pre-selected field that I expect to be correct when purchasing things on Ebay.

If condition is Used, I expect it to more or less work according to the level of wear and tear I can see in the photo's
If condition is New, I expect it to be new in package or close too (I've probably waited 2 months for delivery, I'm not that fussy by that stage)
If condition is Untested, then I'll assume it is broken and will usually not bother with such listings.
If condition is not working/broken, then if it is something I am really interested in, I'll have a look at the description where the seller might describe the fault, and if it looks like something fixable or mis-configured, I'll take a punt.

There is no "Untested" condition in the eBay pre-selected options, AFAIK.

kixs wrote:

I payed 50€ for it with shipping. You be the judge if it's cheap or not - I sold many for less in a working state.

That depends how much of it is shipping. If you ship overseas, it is not really fair to treat shipping as part of the item's price for the purpose of evaluating if the listing was reasonable or not.

kixs wrote:

Now I should take it to some repair show that would give me a written report that it doesn't work. Like the part was new or newer... I can make a few calls around to see if any repair shop will take 25 years old motherboard for a test. I believe most will just laugh about it (maybe not directly on the phone, but it will be a laugh after for sure).

Perhaps you could find some repair shop that will be willing to simply validate the tests that you made to determine it is not working in the first place? Bring them all your equipment, have someone "certified" test and verify that it's not working, and write up a short conclusion for you to submit as evidence. I believe some shops may be willing to do that, and I believe eBay should accept it.

kixs wrote:

now they say even if I get all the documents, they won't cover return shipping as they only cover it within Germany.

Did you by chance use a third party shipping/forwarding company? Or eBay Global Shipping program?

kixs wrote:

eBay wants to refund me 10€. I might just take it as this is getting ridiculous. I've lost time testing it, lost time debating the user, lost time debating with eBay...

This may be a good thing to do; as was suggested to you earlier in this thread - there is a chance the folks here might help you bringing the board to working condition.

dr_st wrote:

Please see the attached picture for an example of how things appear when you look at an item. Note that the part about used meaning fully working cannot even be seen without clicking Read more! Then compare the font size between the condition and the actual description, and now please try to again make your point how "fully working" is "in large text" and "untested" is "hiding away in the description".

Still the large text, it is how users navigate the marketplace, it's how they find your product. They search for used products knowing that "used" means "is fully operational and functions as intended". It is the first thing buyers look at.

Dominus wrote:

Both listing and description is important. If you don't read the description you cannot say it's the selker's fault. If the picture shows the box of whatever and the listing says used but the description only mentions it's only the box and not actually whatever... you see where I'm getting at.

If you're selling something as box only that should be clearly stated in the item title, not hidden away in the description. That's a somewhat popular thing for scammers to try to get away with. Not that I think it has any relevance to the broken/not broken discussion. You're not selling something broken, you're selling a box.

ODwilly wrote:

Hey. Rule of thumb? Dont bring up ebay or other marketplaces here unless you are trying to help a member track down parts.
After the shutdown of the ebay thread it doesnt seem smart to go linking ebay and trying to start a crusade against an ebay seller.

A bit off topic, but the way I see it, talking generally about eBay should be fine, linking to specific sellers/auctions or even offering enough information to identify sellers/auctions isn't and OP hasn't done that.

It's pretty well known that eBay pretty much ALWAYS sides with the buyer. This sounds very unusual.

AtTheGates wrote:

It's pretty well known that eBay pretty much ALWAYS sides with the buyer. This sounds very unusual.

Well it is very possible OP isn't giving us the full story here either.

True, but I've experienced some utter bullshit as a seller. I sold a fully working Radeon X1950XT AGP a couple of years ago. The buyer opened a dispute saying it had water damage, and wouldn't even test the thing. Of course eBay sided with the buyer, and I had to pay for return postage. The "water damage" was just the glue on the sticker having dried up and gone slightly brown. Even worse as a seller you can't leave a negative feedback. After that nonsense and other headaches with PayPal I've not sold on eBay since. I use it a lot for buying, but I use credit cards instead of PayPal. That way you actually get better buyer protection!!

ZellSF wrote:

AtTheGates wrote:

It's pretty well known that eBay pretty much ALWAYS sides with the buyer. This sounds very unusual.

Well it is very possible OP isn't giving us the full story here either.

No. I've told as it is without giving any personal or item details.

I've done some reading of eBay.de policies and it is written that the buyer must prove it doesn't work. Damn... I got two other non-functional cards, but payed with Bank transfer. The sellers are again acting like 5 year olds... they don't care if I payed for a functional item that doesn't work! Never again!!! Damn Germans!!! In all this years I've had good experiences and we have always come to some reasonable solution. But now... I just don't understand. I guess I'm being too naive... and losing around 150€.

Don't get me wrong... I have only good experiences with German sellers till now.

In the mean time I just bought another item from Germany via bank transfer 🤣 But it looks really like new - NIB and I don't expect any problems... I hope 😉