https://www.iol.co.za/business-report/technol … upport-18869149
Windows 10 Mobile dies even before win 7.
It looks they are going to abandon Windows 10 and continue windows 7 development.

Scali wrote:

Fermi did receive a DX12 driver update though, in mid 2017: https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/nvidia-ferm … 12-support.html
I wonder what the requirements for a driver are to work in Win7 DX12 mode.
Chances are it doesn't actually need to be a DX12 driver at all, because it's all user-mode anyway, and WDDM1.1.

I asked that question on Beyond3D forum : LINK
Response was :

12on7 does require a dedicated driver from IHVs.

Fermi version of 12on7 is basicly dead 🙁
But I think it's for the better (DX12 mode on Fermi SUCKS) : LINK

Win 10 works on every pc that has win 7
update is free
win 7 takes ages to just reboot
any reason to stay on win 7?

robertmo wrote:

Win 10 works on every pc that has win 7

That's not true.

robertmo wrote:

win 7 takes ages to just reboot

Rebooting the PC is not something most people do frequently.

robertmo wrote:

any reason to stay on win 7?

Like every version of Windows, it works better with contemporary hardware.

Win 7 Support will end in 2020, but for business they will mantain it until 2023.

In a few years people will be running Win 7 on emulators... 🤣

bfcastello wrote:

In a few years people will be running Win 7 on emulators... 🤣

And people will be turning it on before going to bed...
to be able to use it in the morning 🤣

robertmo wrote:

Win 10 works on every pc that has win 7

Agree with dr_st, untrue.

robertmo wrote:

update is free

Yes, and all the other ones too that happen whether you have time for them or not, and will probably break your system due to being pushed out too fast on a rigid schedule by MS! Windows will end up having the same problems Linux has of things getting switched around, changed, or replaced too fast and not tested rigorously enough, not stable enough, new versions of one component breaking other components, etc. etc.

robertmo wrote:

win 7 takes ages to just reboot

Are you just trolling now? If you let the bloatware infect your system, don't defragment your HDD, don't optimize with msconfig, etc., Windows 7 will take a while to reboot just like every other version of Windows before AND after it.

robertmo wrote:

any reason to stay on win 7?

Yes, many. My top three:
1. Updates. The user interface, underlying system, etc. should NOT be subject to unannounced and mandatory change. If I buy a piece of software I need to have a guarantee that the software will not change spontaneously and mandatorily after the fact. If there are changes I want to either buy those separately in a new version of the software, or be able to manually hit the "download and install" button for a bugfix or security update, etc.
2. User interface. I like the Windows 7 UI better than Windows 10. This is subjective but many people agree.
3. System requirements. Windows 7 can be pared down to be more lightweight, and does not have components that, contrary to popular belief, can NOT be disabled even if you modify the system files, such as Cortana.

bfcastello wrote:

In a few years people will be running Win 7 on emulators...

I already am haha... on my Linux machine. No reason to run Windows 10 in an emulator as all of the software I need to run in Windows (that is, maybe 2 or 3 programs) run perfectly in Windows 7.

Long story short Windows 7 is a great and modern 64-bit operating system. The world would have benefited from MS simply continuing to release service packs, security updates, and bugfixes for Win7 that would have made the system increasingly stable over time, slowly approaching a perfectly stable OS. There was NO REAL REASON to come out with a completely new version of Windows! They could even have charged for the new service packs or something if they are really hell-bent on making money in order to stay in business 🤣

My opinion is that a new major version of an OS should be released only when it is ported to a more advanced architecture (i.e. 16-bit to 32-bit to 64-bit, etc.) and any other changes should be bugfixes and security updates released as minor version numbers or something like that.

robertmo wrote:

bfcastello wrote:

In a few years people will be running Win 7 on emulators... 🤣

And people will be turning it on before going to bed...
to be able to use it in the morning 🤣

What are you talking about? Unless you are running Win7 on really old hardware it boots up very quickly IF you are using an SSD.

But the same goes for pretty much any newer OS. Spinning rust SLOW. SSD fast.

keenmaster486 wrote:

robertmo wrote:

Win 10 works on every pc that has win 7

robertmo wrote:

win 7 takes ages to just reboot

Are you just trolling now? If you let the bloatware infect your system, don't defragment your HDD, don't optimize with msconfig, etc., Windows 7 will take a while to reboot just like every other version of Windows before AND after it.

Boot time has been improving with every generation since the switch to NT6 kernel. 10 boots faster than 8 faster than 7 faster than Vista. It also appears less susceptible than Vista/7 to various software tremendously slowing boot time after a while.

keenmaster486 wrote:

Long story short Windows 7 is a great and modern 64-bit operating system. The world would have benefited from MS simply continuing to release service packs, security updates, and bugfixes for Win7 that would have made the system increasingly stable over time, slowly approaching a perfectly stable OS. There was NO REAL REASON to come out with a completely new version of Windows!

Let's take it back even further and say that they could have done the same for Vista. No real reason to call Vista SP2 "WIndows 7" and force an update install to get it (rather than downloading a service pack).

robertmo wrote:

Win 10 works on every pc that has win 7

Much more significantly, every game that works on 7 (vista in fact) works on 10. This is why retro computing ended in 2006.

dr_st wrote:

keenmaster486 wrote:

robertmo wrote:

Win 10 works on every pc that has win 7

robertmo wrote:

win 7 takes ages to just reboot

Are you just trolling now? If you let the bloatware infect your system, don't defragment your HDD, don't optimize with msconfig, etc., Windows 7 will take a while to reboot just like every other version of Windows before AND after it.

Boot time has been improving with every generation since the switch to NT6 kernel. 10 boots faster than 8 faster than 7 faster than Vista. It also appears less susceptible than Vista/7 to various software tremendously slowing boot time after a while.

win 3.1 boots longer than dos
win95 boots longer than win 3.1
win98 boots longer than win95
winme boots longer than win98
winxp boots longer than winxp
winvista boots longer than winxp
win7 boots same speed as winvista
[win8 boots shorter than win7
win10 boots same speed as win8

win8 was the first os that boots "shorter" cause you can start working before os loads completely

doaks80 wrote:

robertmo wrote:

Win 10 works on every pc that has win 7

Much more significantly, every game that works on 7 (vista in fact) works on 10. This is why retro computing ended in 2006.

no 😀
Wizardry: Llylgamyn Saga (music = game crash)

That game is from 1998. I imagine in runs even better under Win98 than Win7. What I meant was that every game made for Vista/7 runs on 10 no problem, and likely will still do so 10 years from now (assuming its still called Win10).

I.e. you will never have to build a 7 box for compatibility, but there is already great value in an XP box.

robertmo wrote:

win 3.1 boots longer than dos win95 boots longer than win 3.1 win98 boots longer than win95 winme boots longer than win98 winxp […]
Show full quote

win 3.1 boots longer than dos
win95 boots longer than win 3.1
win98 boots longer than win95
winme boots longer than win98
winxp boots longer than winxp
winvista boots longer than winxp
win7 boots same speed as winvista
[win8 boots shorter than win7
win10 boots same speed as win8

Geez, I did say 'since the switch to the NT6 kernel'. Thanks for not bringing in comparisons between DOS 1.0, 2.0, 3.3, 5.0 and 6.x into the mix...

And Win7 can boot faster than Vista in certain scenarios, since it is the first OS where Microsoft implemented parallel, multi-threaded driver loading, as I recall.

However, in all versions between 2K and 7, the boot time can be tremendously affected by so many obscure and unexplained variables, that you might as well consider it random.

dr_st wrote:

And Win7 can boot faster than Vista in certain scenarios, since it is the first OS where Microsoft implemented parallel, multi-threaded driver loading, as I recall.

multi-threaded hdd access can only be slower 😉

robertmo wrote:

Win 10 works on every pc that has win 7 update is free win 7 takes ages to just reboot any reason to stay on win 7? […]
Show full quote

Win 10 works on every pc that has win 7
update is free
win 7 takes ages to just reboot
any reason to stay on win 7?

actually... windows 7 works on some hardware that 8 and 10 don't (like without NX, SSE2)

and video performance on 8-10 sucks if you use something like the GMA 3100, while on 7 you can disable aero and it works OK (from my experience, if you have a WDDM 1.0 driver and not 1.1 and higher 7-Aero, 8 and 10 are very bad wit high CPU usage by DWM)

robertmo wrote:

multi-threaded hdd access can only be slower 😉

Well no, because you always had multi-threaded HDD access in a multithreaded OS.
However, newer Windows versions will queue HDD accesses per-thread and schedule them in a more efficient way (similar to what NCQ does at the hardware level).
I'm not sure if it was first introduced with Vista or 7 though. XP certainly doesn't have it, resulting in lots of scratchy HDD access when you run many applications with HDD access at the same time.

Realizing that this is VOGONS with tons of retro builders, very soon there will be a clone for VOOSONS (Very-Old-OS-On-New-System) 🤣
Keep harping on old stuffs is going to be challenging as time moves on. When the time is right, it makes sense to move on. Windows 10 is a marvel to move on from Windows 7.

So far, there were only 2 things in in tech in my life that I refused to move on. It was such a coincidence that one was hardware and another was software.
- Intel Netburst architecture
As a disgusting response to the insane marketing prowess that thought average tech consumers were dumb and GHz crazy, I refused to buy into that.
- Windows 8/8.1
The omission of "Start" menu in favor of tablet junk UI was disgusting.

It's time to move on if you are still holding on Windows 7. By year 2020, when UEFI class 3 becomes the standard in all new systems, it will be much harder (though not impossible) to run Windows 7 on new UEFI class 3 system. Well, ones can also buy ahead enough hardware replacement to stay on, but for how long this can be sustainable. And for sure, ones will miss out lots of great new advances in hardware/software.

keenmaster486 wrote:

There was NO REAL REASON to come out with a completely new version of Windows!

Actually, there was, if you care to look beyond the classic x86/desktop market for a moment.
The main point of Windows 8 and 10 was to combine the smartphone, tablet and desktop markets into a single OS family.
First was to get it to run on ARM-based platforms (and have a UI that is touch-friendly). Microsoft has since also moved the ARM-based Windows 10 into the embedded and IoT world.

keenmaster486 wrote:

My opinion is that a new major version of an OS should be released only when it is ported to a more advanced architecture (i.e. 16-bit to 32-bit to 64-bit, etc.)

In this case, the big port was ARM.

kjliew wrote:

And for sure, ones will miss out lots of great new advances in hardware/software.

Yes, to get back on topic: there may be 'some' support for DX12 on Windows 7 now, but Windows 10 has full support for DX12, with more features and better performance.
I still don't get the point. How big can the market really be for people who won't or can't upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10, when they want to play a DX12 game?